17yo dd has gone a bit wrong, socially. How to support her?

[NailyDale]

Dd finds social interaction exhausting. People who first meet her would be surprised to learn that because she's chatty, charming, and very socially capable. She CAN do it but it exhausts her, and she doesn't enjoy other people's company much. She can be a bit dismissive of other people, but only in private. Her favourite place in the world is her bedroom with a sketchbook and her music on.

Having said that, she makes a big effort and leaves the house every day with a (big, fake) smile on her face, goes to school, plays a sport, coaches a mini-league team, and has a job. She's a rep for her school in a few different areas. She does all of this because it's just what you have to do. She hates school, but takes on lots of roles because she wants to be chosen as a prefect because that will look good on uni applications. It's all a bit transactional? Or calculated? She says that if she's going to have to go to school every day and hate it, it might as well be useful. She is extremely high-achieving, but also terrified of failure.

She often gets overwhelmed and needs time to decompress. She doesn't lash out, just disappears to her room. She hates to be touched, hates loud noises, gets sensory overwhelm quite easily.

She admitted recently that she has let all her friendships go. She says that at lunchtimes she just needs to be alone to recover some energy, and she's noticed that gradually everyone has drifted away and she now spends lunchtimes alone because she has no other choice. She absolutely understands why everyone has left her to it. She says she wishes she had the energy to maintain friendships, but she's so exhausted by the effort of just being there. This time last year she had a big group of friends at school and various other people she saw at weekends.

She understands that she has to give something of herself to maintain a friendship.

I strongly suspect she has changed her mind about applying to be a prefect, and I think the reason is that she can't bear the idea of applying, being rejected, and this all having been for nothing.

I'm worried that she's exhausted all the time. Could this be a medical thing? She is also often shaky and gets headaches.

What do I say? How do I support my girl?

Not to be a mumsnet cliché but I think she is neuro diverse and is masking.

Masking can be exhausting as you are having to be a semi fake person just to fit societal norms.

She is very clever and knows the system and the game but it is not what feels natural to her so she is having to constantly be aware and have a heightened state of alertness so that she is saying and doing the right things.

Her needing down time is understandable and expected. Its like having to be on all the time.

I could have written this. It's as if she has so much "people time", then has to retreat.

I do worry about her going off to uni- not the work side of it, she'll love that, but I worry about her making friends and finding people to live with.

Agree with PP, autistic/neurodivergent girls are people-pleasers and mask, resulting in exhaustion at home. They are also excellent at striking up friendships but often poor at maintaining them.

I’d be keeping an eye on your DD so that she avoids burnout. I’d emphasise with her the importance of keeping in touch with one or two people in order to have support and balance in her life.

She sounds like she has autism and is masking io. This is very common for girls. Get her tested. Go to your GP.

Poor love

Look, am no expert here, but could she try something like yoga? Via an app or similar, so she can decompress

I agree she has some ND traits. But disgnosed or not, how best to support her?

I think you need to have some real conversations about "failure" and what that really means. Or rather, what "success" means and all the forms it can take. She is seeking perfectionism, and avoiding things she won't succeed in (been there, done that) and it's far more damaging than losing a few friendships. It will have lifelong implications for her so really important to get some ground work done on that.

A diagnosis will go a long way for her to understand herself and what's going on /what she needs rather than framing it as failure/success.

In the meantime , have a look at what opportunities and options she has to unwind/recharge. Explore them together, make sure there are plenty of opportunities for her to use them and that she sticks to it.

I also think you need to take charge and some control over her activities, if you feel she's overextended and at risk of burnout it's ok to say no.

Agree probably some neuro diversity here.

The fear of failure and need to be perfect is something to address, as it really screws high achieving teen girls over (ND or not)

I’d get a diagnoses so she can better understand herself and what she needs to flourish, and in parallel to that work with her on what success could look like to her - probably a balanced life with friendships, which it does sound like she misses.

Have a Google - lots of books and resources on perfectionism in teen girls, and similarly resources for girls who appear to have ASD traits. Talk to the GP about a diagnoses. If you think she’d benefit with working with a counsellor then that could be helpful but you will have to pay for it.

It would be good to tackle it before she heads off to uni.

My daughter is very similar and I think, in my opinion you are doing a very good job, I wouldn't do anything different.
Maybe buy her some things to make her room more comfortable or things to pamper herself. She is 17 so year 12 or 13?
At the start of the school year I got her a mini pamper basket with nice school pens, heating eye masks, aromatherapy roll on, favourite chocolates, a small bracelet and a " I love you and I am proud of you card" (cheap stuff).
Just continue being the amazing mum that you are.
My daughter only has 3 good friends that she sees very sporadically and she is very happy with that, she is starting uni soon and when she is not working (love her work friends but just at work doesn't go out with them) lock herself in her room scrapbooking or crocheting with music.
Go on few dates here and there but is happy in her own.
She did do a interailing trip this summer with a friend in eastern Europe that made her very happy, so perhaps you should ask her if traveling would be something she would like to do.
Mine loved organising it between A level revision, something to look forward so not everything will be about school.

I’d also start encouragingly talking about a year out- far better to take a year, get some support and life experience and then start, vs just rolling all of this into uni and potentially crashing and burning by Christmas.

Very similar to my dd, nearly 16. Is exhausted after school, needs a lot of alone time in bedroom, reading, pampering herself to make herself feel better. She gets a lot of headaches too as it's all too much. Had a recent ADHD diagnosis we had to pay for as NHS was a 2 year wait. It has helped her understand herself more, and helping school make allowances, give her time out etc.

All these exhausted girls piling pressure on themselves :(

Apart from the masking that pp have mentioned, what strikes me is the possibility of a burnout before too much longer. Your DD goes through the motions, forces herself to perform what she believes is expected of her, without joy or pleasure. How terrible for her!

I don't want to frighten you, OP but I worry that your DD may eventually self-harm or worse. Please talk to her openly and seriously about her feelings. She doesn't sound at all happy so what you and she must do is find a different way of life for her. Whatever that may be. But she should be doing things that please her and bring her peace and satisfaction.

Without going into personal detail, I know this through experience.

Sounds like masking, which is not a healthy thing to do.
I would:

• discuss neurodiversity with her. Does she think it fits? https://autismunderstood.co.uk/ has lots of well written info.
• look with her at her sensory profile. What stimulus exhaust her? What does she like? Try to help her balance her day. If noise is an issue, explore noise cancelling ear plugs, such as loop or flare calmer. If she likes watching lights, add more to her bedroom, and encourage her to make time for the ‘good’ input everyday. Does swinging/bouncing calm her? Look at ways to include this.
• does she prefer predictability? Add some family schedules/planners- I.E a weekly planner whiteboard, mapping out who is where/when.
• explore what she enjoys- she seems to be doing lots as she feels it is expected. But what lights her up? Makes her happy? Be clear you support and value this as much as her coaching etc. Make it clear that these are not your demands.
• Neurowild on Facebook/instagram etc has some lovely insights/affirmations. Autistic culture/values can be different. Not less, no puzzle to solve, or pieces missing. Different. And that’s fine.
• speak to school. Sounds like she needs some support- quiet lunch space with 1 or 2 similar pupils? Ensuring pressure/demands are reasonable and handled sensitively.

She sounds absolutely wonderful. Be careful she doesn’t crash.

I felt exactly the same about school, minus the wanting to be a prefect and so on (I rejected everything about the hierarchical structure in the school, was a rebel, but still did a million extracurricular things to a high standard).

I'm an introvert, may be a bit ND (not diagnosed and never felt the need) but have had no problem whatsoever since leaving school.

For people like us, there are two insanely difficult things about being in school. The first is the sheer number of people. Crowds exhaust me, whether it be shopping centers, gigs, theme parks or public transport. And I had to spend all day every day in what felt to me like a crowd. I need my people in small doses.

The second is the lack of control over your own time. I'm a hard worker, always have been, but hated having every second of my time scheduled by someone else.

The good news is the second I left school I was fine. Where I went to uni you managed your own time, had the freedom to choose your lectures and your work rhythm, so I felt in control. And although there are crowds, you can dip in and out of them as you please, so I could always find some alone time when I needed it.

The same has been true most of the time at work, although I did spend a period in a very intense job and burn out. But have found other ways to work that work for me (and for everyone else I work with).

School is particularly tough environment for people like us, the only thing I would recommend is that you acknowledge that it's OK to have alone time when you need it, and to tell her that once she leaves school she should bear her need for solitude in mind when choosing her next steps in life.

I would put to one side the idea that being a prefect will help university applications. Whilst it might add to the personal statement, there are many other ways to demonstrate similar skills without entering a popularity contest to take on extra school work. My dd was very pleased that school was just school. She bolstered her application for medicine with voluntary work in a hospice and children's clubs. They didn't even look at the personal statement at most of the universities she applied to.

If she wants to be a teacher then it would be good experience, but for other roles there are other things she could do and ultimately they will care more about the grades and interest/ reading around that specific topic than whether she was a prefect or not.

I am not saying that being a prefect is not a good goal or valuable experience, however there are other ways to get there if it is not working for her. Sometimes knowing that you are volunteering for a hour every Monday can be easier than having the possibility throughout the whole school week that someone is going to ask you to do something.

Sounds like my dd, who has inattentive ADD.

Support her make sure she gets down time. Talk to her about not needing to be perfect, encourage her to be herself. Talk to her about the possibility of asd or adhd and ask her if she wants to be assessed. (Long process but can be helpful in education/adulthood) Talk to her about masking and the impact on physical/mental health.

Understand that not everyone wants friends the question s is she happy? . Uni will be a totally different experience for her anyway if she does want friends she will have opportunities to make friends there.

I completely get this. She feels like she has to be 'on' all the time and it's hard to maintain

I'm exactly the same, customer facing role, chatty in person, outgoing, etc etc

But, I hate people, like hate being around them, they drain me. I have no friends outside DH, and work colleagues. But, that's ok with me.

I am happiest when at home, in my safe space, with just the people I love around me.

My dd loves her friends but has always needed to completely chill out on her own after a social occasion. She would go into another room to read/ write/ listen to music just to unwind. If she didn't get that time she would be very stressed and agitated. She is also a very high achiever and got involved in everything in school. She is out of school now, finished university and working but is still the same around alone time. Recently she was home for a few days and brought some friends with her . She spent lots of time doing things around our home town and giving them a good time. She always puts in an effort. Then when they left she jumped into her pyjamas and crashed out reading and alone for two days. She says herself it's because she is an introvert and needs to fill her tank with time alone. I personally wouldn't put in the same effort with study/ friends etc so would need no time to destress. Her personality is a give it all one. But it is not always good for her. My dd has had some therapy recently and has benefited from this and l do notice she has learnt to know her own needs better and pulls back a bit sooner rather than give her all. Some personal therapy might help your dd.

I think it's not uncommon to feel as she does. Bear in mind there are teenage hormones in the mix.

I've been having a read of the ND links that people have given me. Yes, I think she has some ND traits, but I don't think she would be diagnosed with ND because she is more socially and functionally capable in many respects than the average teenager. She just exhausts herself doing it.

I'm going to have a chat with her about what makes her happy, and what success and failure look like to her. I want her to understand that while I'm proud of both her achievements and the enormous effort she makes, she doesn't have to set herself on fire. I don't think she truly believes that it would be okay for her to be average.

She sounds burnt out rather than ND! Can she sack off some of the extras (school rep stuff, that’s basically school wifework)?

I think it would be valuable to help her see that in many cases good enough is. And friendships should be seen as at least as important as the extracurricular stuff.

Its in no way unexpected to need down time/alone time if she’s as busy as you say she is! Everyone needs some mindless nonsense time where they aren’t trying to be some creature of perfection.

She has a good team around her xxx

I agree with @CatherinedeBourgh, your daughter sounds very much like me, I'm not ND but very definitely an introvert. Also high achieving, and have been fine since leaving school as there is more flexibility to have interactions on my terms. I find people frankly exhausting, and need to carve out time to just be quiet and alone, which is easier when you're an adult with more control over your life - the daily demands of school don't give that same flex.

I also do things in the 'transactional' way your describe - because I know they're a good thing to do, as opposed to that I actively relish the idea of doing them.

I would say support her in her endeavors, but also help and encourage her give herself the space and time to decompress. As for friendships, I can count my friends on one hand, and actually that works for me. I genuinely don't need lots of friends and social interactions. But for a teenager I totally appreciate it's different, and social interactions are important. Maybe she can ensure she makes time for one or two good friends, that might be enough for her. And she might have to force herself, I know I do, even with people I genuinely like!

Bless her, I hope she finds her path.