How to get teen (occasionally) to listen to advice?

[TheTurn0fTheScrew]

Basically, my 16yo is the living embodiment of that Mark Twain quote:

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years."

Today's example is that she has again logged on to a summer educational thing late. Again. I have mentioned before that unless in another meeting the best time to be logging onto a video conference is 5-10mins beforehand, particularly if you are one of the more junior people. She's also trying unsuccessfully to get summer jobs and refuses to show me the application forms, as I apparently know nothing of how the job market works these days. For context, I am gainfully employed, including having secured a change of job in the last 12months.

I try to be thoughtful in what I say - not overly directive, patronising or critical. It's generally more offering observations about what's worked for me. And I absolutely accept that there are lots of areas where her knowledge and experiences are more useful than mine. Has anyone got any better ideas than gritting my teeth and sitting out the loooonnng wait while she learns from her own experiences?

I think you're doing everything right, OP, and I love that quote! I am in the thick of it myself with DD15; if I feel something is crucial, I have her show me/correct it together with her. If it's not crucial and she is not in danger, I let her make her own mistakes.
Sometimes I talk to her about issues her friends are facing and how they might go about solving them, it is an easier conversation to have and I hope she absorbs something from it.

Oh God, my DSs would argue black and blue that their teachers were all knowing and I knew nothing in comparison. Until I pointed out that I had 2 degrees to their 1, and taught at university, and wasn't quite the numpty they thought I was.

In the end I used to just make them sit down and do whatever it was with a "I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. Show me X NOW and we are going to go through it together. Until you do you will remain device free".

First few times there was an almighty ruckus akin to the world ending. They eventually got over it. Now they even ask for my advice....🤪

It's very frustrating. I know no one likes a know-it-all, and I'm trying really hard not to be like that.

It's most difficult watching her have summer job applications knocked back while knowing that writing good applications is a particular skill of mine. I have friends who write entire forms FOR their kids, and I'm not even allowed to proof-read hers . Obviously it's all very different at school, and she happily shared college applications with her form tutor.

Do you have another adult you can ask to talk to her? I read recently that teens are evolutionarily primed to reject their dps and leave because it promotes genetic diversity. But they are much more receptive to other people’s parents.

Nothing but empathy here as I, xxx years experience in uni admissions and extensive knowledge of local job market, am barred from 17 y o's ucas forms and told that I have no idea how to get jobs. Only 'my mates' will be listened to!

Giving your opinion in small doses (once a day) is fine.
"let me know if you think I can help" might be your default final only simple comment if you find what they are doing exasperating and just need to disengage.

Let them make mistakes. Sure tell them unemotionally why you think their strategy is wrong but shrug your shoulders when you dislike their choices because it's important they try for themselves.

Coming across as a judgy know-it-all will not make them bring their problems to you. Avoid being bossy.

I spent 20 minutes 2 days ago telling DS why he shouldn't just quit a job and how he could ask the business owners for different T&C instead... He talked non-stop insisting different T&C were impossible. I ended at "Oh well good luck, maybe I can help you find another job" and he came home from work that day with different T&C anyway. They do sometimes listen even while insisting you're wrong. They will more likely share their problems when they know you're giving them maximum decision-making power.

This is true. Liberal use of the words 'you're so right', 'now I get it' and 'thanks for explaining' helps them listen !

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Yesterday I had a long and lovely conversation with a much adored (by me) undergraduate relative - during which they reflected on the advice they’d like to give the teens they’d recently met during some volunteering. Every bit of that ‘advice’ consists of things we begged them to hear and comprehend when they were 14 / 16 / 18. Did they listen, back then?

By the time they were applying to Uni they did at least allow a tiny bit of a million years of ancient family advice to seep into their ears. But it’s only now that they’re acknowledging how much smoother and easier various paths might have been to traverse if they hadn’t been so certain that all their older family were idiots.

(It’s very sweet!)

You need to coach rather than tell.

Don't direct, use mainly open questions so that the ideas are her own but you're leading in the right direction. Acknowledge anything that's not useful with a closed question, one word answer, then head her back to her own thought exploration.

The aim is for ownership of the idea to be hers as she's then much more likely to see that through. If you catch yourself telling her, reign it back as that's the best way to actually stop that thing happening.

She won't be interested in what worked for you when you were her age as the employment market has changed dramatically since Covid and she will have had guidance on this via an Employment Advisor in school. Instead chat about what worked, what didn't, what could be better next time.

If you go in thinking you have all the answers and she knows nothing then you're going to get nowhere, as you've discovered.

Good luck.

I read this too and it really spoke to me as I remember thinking a lot of the advice my best friend's mum gave me when I was at school when tbh it wouldn't have been much different to my parents' guidance. You just think you're soooooo different to them at that age.

2pence
Your post made me smile. Yes, coach rather than tell.
How you speak to teens is really important. Plus I think they do need the confidence boost that comes from getting it right by yourself. Even if they get it wrong a few times on the way.
My own teen has amazing language skills but little experience using those in situations outside school - so things like covering letters. But I don't insist she shows me anything - I ask if she wants me to look at it before she sends it, then if it's too long or apologetic I will suggest she trims it down a bit and takes out the 'sorry' but then leave it to her to rewrite it. It is better in the longer run that it's their own skills/words not ours.

I'm having this exact problem
With dd2 who is 16. She won't let me help
Her apply for summer jobs and keeps getting no responses. Her sister let me write her CV for her and help with two applications and got a job within two weeks. I've just stopped offering now. But I also don't give her money over and above her allowance anymore 🤷🏽‍♀️

It's really hard and I only get any results by listening to his concerns and proposed solutions.
It has got a lot better since he turned 16 and he's a lot more willing to engage now he is 17. Unfortunately he has also learned the polite non sequitur so he will nod and smile and do none of it.

I have a 14 year old ds and fully feel that famous quote by Huckleberry Finn.

I dare not give any advice or ask revealing questions so I tiptoe around him to pick up any scraps of info he wants to share.

Then I try to find books relevant to those things and spread them around the house, kitchen, bathroom, hallway, staircase etc. Sometimes I see a book gets carried into the bathroom or his room so I take it as some advice being read. Not a lot of times I would say. But again like the scraps of info I get from him, something better than nothing.

Thank for all the solidarity - it's clearly a developmental stage, albeit one at least as frustrating as toilet training.

Any gentle offers eg to glance over application forms are met with "no thanks" and a swift change of subject. There are basically no further opportunities for gentle nudging, and so I grit my teeth and move on. she's a good kid though, and there are worse problems to have .