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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

D17's boyfriend is a compulsive liar & I don't know what to do about it - help?

27 replies

NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 08:11

So D17 met this boy in March & they gradually became closer. The problem is that he cannot help but lie - all the time, about big and small things, not apparently for gain, often in ways that mean he will obviously get found out. I have this from his mum; she and I met for coffee not long after they became close, and there were big differences between factual things he'd told my D and things his mum was saying. She also told me a number of eyebrow-raising stories about stuff he'd done over the years that had caused real trouble.

Honesty is MASSIVELY important to my D. She has various neurodiverse traits, and really cannot handle lies. She usually goes out of her way to avoid dishonest people.

At the time, I decided (in consultation with her therapist) that it was better for my D to hear about her boy's unreliability from someone she already trusted, i.e. me, than to find out accidentally. This was driven significantly by my concerns about her safety from herself - she has massive mental health issues. I was really worried that she was clearly putting SO much emotional reliance on someone so inconsistent, and worried what she might do to herself when she found out he couldn't be trusted. In the gentlest way possible, I had a conversation with her, in which I described his version of things as not 'agreeing' with his mum's, that it probably came from a place of just wanting to feel closer to her (my D), and that it might be a good idea to just clear the air with him.

I don't know how the chat between the two of them went, but she must have been satisfied with whatever he said because 3 months later they are inseparable. In the meantime, he must have had a rage at his mum, because she had a fit and accused me of sharing 'personal information' with my daughter and said that she could no longer be in touch.

I should say that he seems to be basically quite a sweet, if somewhat awkward and insecure, kid, and he clearly cares MASSIVELY about my D - that's obvious in the way he behaves towards her. He also has really significant mental health issues, aside from the lying - that's how they connected in the first place - so is also quite vulnerable.

Things have come to a head recently for two main reasons. One, he's been lying to her about his age throughout. They are at different schools; he's told her that he's also 17, and repeating year 11. According to his mum, this is not true - he's 16 and on his first time through. (I'm sure my D wouldn't have cared if he'd been honest about it from the start.) I've referred to him throughout as 16, but my D has been angry about this, saying he's 17 and that this is a sign that we don't trust HER. This culminated in him recently sending us, her parents, a screenshot of his passport, showing a fake date of birth - it was a good fake, but he'd forgotten to change the year in the coded strip at the bottom. So now we have actual proof of at least one of his lies.

The second reason is that they've started having sex, so the stakes are MUCH higher in terms of her emotional involvement. She has simply gone ahead and done stuff with him, in the house, without any discussion of boundaries - which we have never had with her previously because this is literally the first time she has shown any interest in boys, let alone actually had a boyfriend. They have basically gone from 0 to 60 without us having a chance to say, hang on - this isn't how young people normally behave. Trying to re-state boundaries is getting us nowhere because she just yells that we're making her feel unwelcome at home, and not acknowledging how important it is to her that she has someone to care for when she has been so lonely for so long (see above re mental health). And to be honest, I'd rather she was having sex than dead; and I'd rather that she was somewhere safe than in a random park somewhere; and I don't doubt the sincerity of their belief that they are soulmates & meant to be together forever, however statistically unlikely that is.

I honestly don't know what to do. I don't feel that trying again to let her know about his lies is going to get us anywhere. He will no doubt find creative ways to explain stuff away, and all it will do is set up an opposition between him and us, in which she will clearly choose him. But I'm incredibly worried about the intensity of their relationship and her vulnerability. At some point, she is bound to find out he's got a flexible relationship with the truth, and I think she will find that incredibly hard, and I don't know what she might do as a result (see again: mental health). I imagine he's already told her many, many lies big and small, so that relationship that is so important to her is likely founded on a complete fantasy.

If anyone has any ideas about how I can best keep her safe in this situation, I would really love to her them. Thank you.

OP posts:
CrapBucket · 25/06/2023 08:19

That sounds really difficult and I don’t have experience of this, but totally agree with your reasoning and how you have handled it so far.

There is no getting away from the fact that our teens will ‘have their hearts broken’ at some point. You have the advantage/disadvantage of predicting what will cause them to eventually split. Although 100 other different things could happen too. So I guess my advice is to act as though you don’t know about the lies and just keep going with the relationship you have with DD, including the boyfriend in family occasions etc.

FWIW both my teens have now had relationships which have ended and although it was awful for the one who was suddenly dumped, I feel less worried about them in future relationships. Almost like they’ve been emotionally vaccinated! The other DC was the dump-er and I know first heartbreak is yet to come.

Good luck

MaryJanesonabreak · 25/06/2023 08:22

When my teenagers were going out with unsuitable/dodgy people I took the stance of listening to their woes and not commenting as such but ‘reflecting’ back what they were saying. So it’s basically rephrasing in your own words while teasing out the feelings being expressed. It takes practice, a lot of practice and it’s awkward to begin with.
Basically they worked out pretty fast how dissatisfied they were with new horrible boy/girlfriend, and it would fade out.
I don’t know how this would work with someone with severe mental health issues, but I do know it creates a safe place for talking and communication.

SullysBabyMama · 25/06/2023 08:31

If he is meant to be 17, pretty soon his parents will throw him an 18th birthday party and your DD will find out his true age.
If his parents don’t acknowledge such a big birthday in any way that your daughter discovers it, then maybe you need to think about how much you trust the parents version of events, as they are clearly uninvolved. I judge them also because of how they handled the situation with you sharing this information with your daughter- which of course you would- but the fact they didn’t expect that means they wouldn’t have shared with their son?
Lying for no gain is often linked to low self-esteem and his parents slagging him off to his girlfriends parents shows they are clearly not the type of parents that would have grown his self-esteem and not raised it.

LlynTegid · 25/06/2023 08:32

Offer him a leaflet for Conservative Party membership!!! They love a compulsive liar

Hope somehow the other advice above helps.

AromanticSpices · 25/06/2023 08:39

Is she using contraception? She can't rely on him using any, which is a big deal imo.

NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 08:45

@SullysBabyMama so he originally told her his birthday was in March, a few days away from hers; and that he spent the day with her then because he 'didn't care about birthdays' and his parents didn't care about him. She just swallowed it whole - she's fiercely intelligent but also socially naive (see: neurodiversity). Although she now knows the true 'day' of his birth, if not the year, I imagine a similar thing will happen - I don't care about my birthday and my parents don't either, so they're not celebrating. The two of them have actually booked a mini-break over his 'real' birthday...

He has a very difficult relationship with his parents at the moment. They had some really significant family trauma last year which has caused a lot of disruption (this I can independently verify because it was in the local papers). They had agreed, as a family, to move a couple of hours away for a 'fresh start' - but now he has changed his mind, presumably in part because of his relationship with my D, and is trying to separate from his family in order to stay local. So things are not straightforward there at all. It's true they have a very different parenting style to me, though.

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NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 08:47

@AromanticSpices judging by the number of condom boxes she keeps leaving lying around, yes 😬. But she hasn't really wanted to have a conversation with me about it - every time I try, she shuts me down with some sarcastic remark like, yes of course, because what I really want right now when I'm trying to catch up my A-levels is to HAVE A CHILD.

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continentallentil · 25/06/2023 08:50

I think you are worrying too much and thus interfering too much.

I do understand your DD is more vulnerable then some and she could do without Mr Fantasy, but you say he is basically a nice kid, so I am guessing this is down to self esteem rather than any attempt to harm your DD.

You are in danger of driving a wedge between you so she won’t confide, which is the last thing you want. Take a step back, make a huge effort to stop expressing opinions, and allow her to just come and talk to you. Maybe take her out for some treaty trips to get your relationship going - and don’t talk about him. She won’t start taking to you immediately, but give it time. As a wise PP said above - let her talk, and the then reflect what she says back to her.

She should of course have discussed sex at home with you, but in the context of your oft expressed dislike of him it’s partly understandable she didn’t go there. It’s not unusual to be sexually active at this age and if they aren’t doing it at your house they’ll find somewhere else, like a car or a field, so I would leave it be.

Make sure she has contraception sorted!

It’ll pass - she is not going to be with him for life.

She’s at an age where you have to let kids grow up, it’s always going to feel hard.

NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 08:51

@MaryJanesonabreak I wish we were at the stage of her having negative things to say about him!!! At the moment he is sunlight and perfection and no one may say a negative word against him. It's teeth-achingly annoying. But yes: maybe when that starts happening. If it does. I really wonder if he could somehow keep this up for years.

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HerMammy · 25/06/2023 08:52

You're far too involved and tbf it's none of your business. How odd that you met his mother for her to tell you his faults. Leave them be, it won't be forever.

YukoandHiro · 25/06/2023 08:54

MaryJanesonabreak · 25/06/2023 08:22

When my teenagers were going out with unsuitable/dodgy people I took the stance of listening to their woes and not commenting as such but ‘reflecting’ back what they were saying. So it’s basically rephrasing in your own words while teasing out the feelings being expressed. It takes practice, a lot of practice and it’s awkward to begin with.
Basically they worked out pretty fast how dissatisfied they were with new horrible boy/girlfriend, and it would fade out.
I don’t know how this would work with someone with severe mental health issues, but I do know it creates a safe place for talking and communication.

Excellent advice

Robotindisguise · 25/06/2023 08:57

Does the boyfriend have ADHD? There’s a link between that and “magical thinking” lying (ie I wish it was true so I’ll just say it). My own DD has similar and it does your head in. And neurodivergent people tend to form better relationships with each other than with NT people, in many cases.

NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 08:58

@continentallentil I haven't expressed dislike of him AT ALL - quite the opposite. Apart from the first conversation 3 months ago, I have done nothing but validate her feelings for him, observe how much I can see he cares for her, welcomed him into the house, driven them around all over the place for trips etc... he was here only last night for a barbecue. The only thing I haven't done is agree to participate in the fantasy that he's 17. She has been keen for me to get to know him better, I have gone for lunch with them when invited, etc etc. And at the moment I'm NOT 'interfering' at all. But I have a true and not groundless concern that she may really endanger herself if she finds out. And it's SO HARD to keep a straight face when he says obviously outrageous things and she just swallows them whole.

I wish I could have conversations with her to re-establish our relationship but she literally tells me that he is the only thing that is important to her and she doesn't want to 'work on our relationship' and I just have to accept that.

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NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 08:59

@HerMammy it's quite hard not to be 'too involved' when you had to sleep in your daughter's bedroom for 6 weeks to stop her killing herself, and when she basically admits that you have kept her alive for the last 3 years. But sure, thanks.

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NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 09:01

@HerMammy also, when I met his mum for coffee neither of us knew that they were going to be a big thing. The two of them connected over their mental health struggles, she and I were talking in the context of two people parenting young people with mental health struggles. Neither of us knew when we spoke how it was going to end up.

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Girliefriendlikespuppies · 25/06/2023 09:01

I think you have to let her work it out for herself as hard as that is.

If she knows you don't like him/don't trust him she won't confide in you and won't trust anything you say because 'you never liked him anyway.'

It's fairly normal for teen relationships to go from 0-100, they're teens and want to try things out. I would want her on some contraception though as I wouldn't trust a teen boy and condoms.

Eventually he will be his own undoing and he'll say something that your dd will know is untrue. Hopefully at that point she might come to you with a concern and it's really important you don't rush in with 'well I told you he was a liar'

As a pp said you need to reflect back to her what she is saying so something along the lines of 'it sounds like you're feeling unsure if what he's telling you is true' or 'that does seem a bit strange, what are your thoughts/feelings?'

Wait for her to come to you but otherwise step bank is my advice.

NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 09:05

@Robotindisguise yes, he's recently been given an ADHD diagnosis. That's interesting, I hadn't come across the link.

I wouldn't be anything like as worried if she KNEW he was unreliable and could just manage it however people do. I'm just really scared of the fallout. She's - TW - made several suicide attempts, and now says that he has given her reasons to see that there are good things in life.

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CovertImage · 25/06/2023 09:07

HerMammy · 25/06/2023 08:52

You're far too involved and tbf it's none of your business. How odd that you met his mother for her to tell you his faults. Leave them be, it won't be forever.

"It's none of your business"

When I read this sort of crap I think that MN isn't a sensible place to come for advice.

Maglin · 25/06/2023 09:14

I must say I think it's bizarre that you met his mum and she told you he was a compulsive liar and then got cross that you told your dd. Something not quite right there.

But if this is all as it seems, I'd tell your dd his true age then make sure she's using contraception and start to accept that our dcs often make bad choices when growing up.

OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow · 25/06/2023 09:15

Given your post about him not wanting to move, you know what the next step will be don’t you? He’ll be moving in with you. So if and when the fallout happens it will be much harder to negotiate.

NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 09:29

@OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow indeed. This has already come up and we have resisted - not said, no he can't live here, but more: we don't know enough about this situation to know if we can offer the right support for him, we obviously want to help someone who is so important to you, but we don't want to do so in a way that might be unhelpful.

'Fortunately' (in one sense) he has a social worker, who is opposed to it, so that may at least buy us some time.

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SkaterBrained · 25/06/2023 09:45

My ASD DD had a friend like this who she hero worshiped briefly, "X is amazing they can run a marathon in an hour," "X is so brave, they walked the Inca trail by themselves and found some new places..."

If I argued that some of these things were untrue or impossible, she'd get defensive - probably feeling a bit silly and the idea she'd lied when she told me (she's very honest). The emotion that she has lied to me by saying X ran it in an hour, is complex and confusing for her, it isn't how she imagined lying would feel.

Instead I just said "did you believe them?" and after a week or so she started thinking at the time instead of accepting it. Now she'll occasionally say "guess what X said?" And we'll laugh at how outlandish it is. She isn't friendly with them any more.

I think it's v important that ASD kids think about how good their sources of information are. DD would believe things much too easily because she wouldn't lie and couldn't understand why other people would. Pre diagnosis my DH and I would joke that she mustn't be allowed anywhere near a Scientologist, for example.

NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 11:30

@SkaterBrained thank you, that's really useful advice. She didn't 'meet threshold' for diagnosis via the NHS (ICD10), but is convinced she is autistic and just masking very successfully. So we are going for a private second opinion, since she can't accept the diagnosis - at least if that also comes back with the same verdict, we'll feel we've properly investigated & she can try to set that aside to work on alternative explanations for 'why she is the way she is'.

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NewToThis77 · 25/06/2023 11:36

@Maglin I didn't even tell her he was a compulsive liar... I just said, well, you say x y and z [ages of brothers, own age, couple of other fairly innocuous facts], but his mum's version didn't quite 'agree' with that, you might like to check that out? I think she's in a bad place herself at the moment.

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Colourfingers2 · 25/06/2023 11:40

Don’t you have a husband or man in the family who could warn him off? There’s no way I’d allow anyone like that to be involved with my daughter!