Advice needed for son wanting to drop out of college (suicide trigger warning)

[Marionsmaid]

My 16 DS is adamant he wants to drop out of college. He hated school and couldn’t wait to get to college but now he’s there he hates it there too. Teachers are “useless”, lessons get cancelled, other kids are deadheads. You name it he has a negative attitude towards it. He is studying something (not academic) which he has had a life long interest in but now no longer is interested in. He scraped a few GCSE’s inc maths and English.
He is convinced that he is destined for better things and wants to start his own business drop shipping. I know very little about what this involves but have been clear that he will need to use his own money to get started. My husband and I are all for him starting a side hustle (he does have a Saturday job) but want him to stay at college, however, there doesn’t seem much point if he isn’t interested and is just going to mess around. I have suggested he move to another course but he isn’t interested in any kind of academic learning. He knows it all apparently.

I have recently become aware of him following Andrew Tate which is not something I am happy about at all and I wonder how much of his nonsense my DS has absorbed to start thinking that he can make millions from nothing. I have explained to my son that if his idea was so very brilliant everyone would be doing it and whilst we don’t want to rain on his parade, I have told him that he needs to get some life experience before starting a business. 16 is too young.
For context, we lost our daughter a few years ago in the most tragic way (suicide age 15). Since then my husband, who was always more lenient, has refused to lay down any boundaries with our DS. I have tried to but I was bad cop with my DD and feel awful about that now even though I know it was normal parenting. I refuse to be bad cop again, and even if I do stand up for what I think is right I have no support and am sidelined. My son is too strong willed for his parents who are weakened by grief and haven’t the mental energy to take him on.

Despite all that, we love our son and would do anything for him. After what has happened to our family we just want him to be happy but I fear he gets his own way too much and it’s not good for him long term.

I know that had we not lost our DD there’s no way he would be allowed to leave college but given that he’s not interested would it be the worst thing in the world? I know he is supposed to be in education or training until 18 but he won’t be claiming benefits and I doubt anyone would be checking.

Any ideas how we approach this would be appreciated.

He sounds like a spoiled brat sorry OP

Drop shipping is scam psuedo business IMO, people buying things from someone as a "UK company", things which the seller doesn't own. Seller then purchases these things cheaply from another country, giving their buyer's address as the delivery address. The poor buyer waits endlessly for something to arrive from overseas and the company they purchased from, having made their profit already, often doesn't give a damn whether it arrives or not and as they've never laid eyes on the item can't guarantee its quality either. Lots of drop shippers on eBay etc.

Quit college and get a job fine, college isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't support him to set up a drop shipping company. I'd be concerned he intends to hole up in his room, never come out and complain that everything that goes wrong in his life isn't his fault.

What's wrong with an apprenticeship? Apart from the fact it involves working for a living...

I'm sorry you lost your DD 💐

Also

Despite all that, we love our son and would do anything for him.

Except provide a united front as parents and lay down the boundaries he needs

Looking back, do you understand what led your daughter to end her life? Could something similar be at play with your son? I'd be investigating possible neurodiversity.

Plenty of kids run a little business at 16 or 17. Let him have a go at it, he might even succeed. Obviously using his own money, and if he wants a bank loan he'll need to learn how to put together a business plan that actually passes the bank's muster won't he. Perhaps he would do a course in business studies or entrepreneurship?

You and your H desperately do need to give him some boundaries though. Might having some therapy help you both?

@SkyHippoOnACloud SkyhippoOnACloud

Thanks for your reply. Your info on drop shipping is very interesting and I will use that in my argument against it. I agree with most of what you’ve said. He is spoilt. After what has happened it is easier to pick your battles and life has changed all of us. He is a good kid and could quite easily have gone off the rails given what he’s been through (he also lost a best friend in an car accident last year) so we try to listen to him and facilitate if we can.

Your comment about him holeing up in his room and complaining when things go wrong is something which has already occurred to me. I am concerned about it. But if it doesn’t work out, worst case scenario is he could go and work for his Dad who is self employed. Personally, I think this would be beneficial as it would introduce him to the world of proper work.

Im a bit hurt by your comment regarding not caring enough to be a united front. There’s not a lot I can do about it. I’ve tried many times. I’ve even considered leaving the relationship because I really struggle with the lack of support. But that would just create more hurt for my sad and damaged family and wouldn’t improve things. The whole thing is a mess.

@StrongerThanYouTh1nk Our poor girl was taking a medicine which, unbeknown to us, had a risk of suicide. She was the most happy girl with no signs of depression. So no, he is not at risk in the same way, although it was so sudden and unplanned with our DD that we will always be fearful of teenagers doing stupid things. I suppose that plays into why we are so lenient with him.

I’m just starting counselling. My husband and son will not entertain the idea.

It would be good for him to get a job and there’s lots around. He can get a bit of experience and make friends hopefully.

but dropshipping - I don’t think it’s going to be banned but people will get wise and not buy from them.

@Grimchmas We have said we’re happy for him to have a go, starting small, using his own money. I have suggested he change course and like you say, maybe do a business related course. But he is so arrogant and thinks no teacher can tell him something he doesn’t already know. If business teachers were so good they’d be running successful businesses themselves, according to him. Honestly, his attitude frustrates me so much!

He’s the type of kid who won’t be told anything. He will have to learn first hand. And when I’ve pointed out the very real possibility of failure he accused me of not believing in him and not being supportive.

I think I will say that he can leave college, but he must either find a more suitable college course, get an apprenticeship or find a proper job and this drop shipping malarkey must stay as a side line until he can prove it to be financially viable. Whether I will get back up from DH is another matter.

What about trying to lay down some basic rules if he is dropping out. It's good that he has a Saturday job but do you you need to discuss how much money you will give him or him give you? What about chores, food, bedtimes, Wi-Fi etc etc etc I'd make sure he knows if he isn't in education then he has to start taking on more responsibility elsewhere.

I'd have the Wi-Fi turned off between midnight and 6 am or something. He can use his phone but it might help dissuade him from staying up all night gaming.

I think you need to give yourself a break. You have been through so so much. It's hard to be the perfect parent when you have grief in your heart. I wonder if you should focus on your own wellbeing first. I really feel for you.

Re DS I would remind him of all the complexity associated with running a small business - tax, legal etc.... Suggest he completes business course/apprenticeship to support his ambition.

I have a friend whose DD was an exceptional student (string of 9s in GCSE) but after lockdown etc... she dropped out of school and followed an apprenticeship route. Up to this point the expectation were for Oxbridge. My friend thinking of her DD's mental health didn't try too hard to dissuade her and I think it's going well. I have no doubt she will find her way.

Oh @Marionsmaid I am so sorry for your loss. What a devastating thing to have happened my heart goes out to you.

Please be gentle with yourself and your son. You have been through such a tough time.

FWIW at the moment I would be prioritising your relationship with your son over insisting he stays at college against his wishes.

He is likely to be struggling (maybe more than he is able to admit to, or be aware of), and if you can preserve your relationship you will be better placed to support him now and in the future.

I absolutely appreciate why leaving college isn't ideal but falling out over it will likely push him further away from you and his dad at a time when he needs you (not that he realises that at age 16).

Even if you do persuade him to stay at college is he likely to work hard enough to make it worthwhile?

I can see that his plans aren't realistic and sound dodgy but the harder you insist that he is making a mistake, the harder he may try to prove you wrong- including feeling shame when things don't go well, and not being able to admit to his mistakes and move past them.

There are so many routes that people can take post 16. We are encouraged to shoehorn our young people onto the 'well trodden path of education / work', but there is more than one way to travel- some people take a path that takes them in a straight line, others take a winding road, and some go round in circles or hit dead ends. But each wrong turn can teach us something or lead somewhere eventually.

It can be hard to be seen to support our kids when they don't follow the expected route. But it sometimes is the best or the only way. He's unlikely to knuckle down at college just because you insist that he stays on so maybe for now it's best not to give him a very hard time.

I hope this makes some sort of sense. I realise I am going against the grain here, although I think that late night posts on mumsnet seem to receive a less balanced selection of replies that at other times.

@freckles20 thank you for your kind words of support. They are much appreciated and have made me feel less hopeless about the whole situation.

I do wonder how much he is silently struggling. I don’t think even he is aware of how much what has happened has affected him. He won’t talk about things, refuses counselling and just wants to get on with things- which is great but a lot for a 16 year old to bear on such young shoulders. Hence our leniency.

Are there any Start Your Own Business courses around you? Some sort of enterprise centre.

Or indeed see if he'll work for his Dad to fund his idea.
It sounds like he's currently overwhelmed and a couple of years side by side with his father might be what he needs....if their current relationship can facilitate this.
This might help them forge a new relationship too.

I'd be inclined to offer support by not always dismissing or jumping to the bad outcomes first. You could use the language of parts 'part of me feels this and part of me thinks that'. That shows that it's not a blanket No or Yes.

Start sentences with 'I can see this is really important to you' and 'its not you, I have faith in you and trust your judgement, but another part of me is worried about you not having qualifications'

Or get him to see it from your perspective... 'if I was the young person and you were my parent, what might you say to me if I said I wanted to drop out of college?'

You also have to recognise the difference between giving finance for a realistic plan and not funding a delusion about being 'rich'.

If he just wants to be rich ask him why he'd like to be rich, what would he get from that.

OP you have been through an unimaginable time, and your son is probably suffering too, although he won't discuss it.

Education isn't the be all and end all, his mental health and happiness is more important, he can always return to education when he's more mature and has a clearer idea of what he wants to do. I'd let him leave.

@Felicity42 thank you. We do often end up at loggerheads and I think using the language you describe would be helpful. I will try to frame my words to him that way.

You have been through so much as a family OP, please be kind to yourself, you’re trying your best under very tough circumstances.

im not surprised your son feels he can’t stick at college. Loosing his sister and best friend with in a few years at such a young age is bound to have an affect.

I would let him drop out of college and figure himself out for a bit. I’d be happy to let him try the business, but with the condition he also gets a regular job for the rest of the school year. He can then look at how the business is doing and either carry on with that or look at an apprenticeship for September. He will struggle in the future to get jobs without any level 3 qualifications, but some kids (like me) can’t be told and have to figure it out themselves. I did, and I’m sure he will too. he can always go back to education at any point in the future.

give yourself a break, you are doing really well given the circumstances and the mental health of your whole family is more important than academic achievement.

I have a DS that didn’t know what he wanted to do, dropped out of A-Levels at 6th form, then spent a year at college, had a couple of minimum wage jobs, production line type jobs, realisation of what life is like in the real world without an education, he’s now back doing his A-levels as has a clear idea of what he wants to do, as long as they start back before their 19th birthday he can attend full time. I’m sure this is correct for college courses too, maybe some time out is what he needs as long as he’s working, I insisted on this. I’m sorry to hear about your DD, you’ve all had and still going through a very tough time.