Baffled by Teen DD

[Gauragaura]

I just need a handhold really. 15 yo DD has just started Year 11. Had always been bright and a bit quirky. Made lots of new friends in Year 7 and did really well academically. She goes to a school about 30 mins away.
She started getting a bit teenagery in year 8/9 but with lockdown etc, I didn't think much of it. It seems to have really hit in year 10 and this summer holiday was horrendous. She was staying up ridiculously late, well into the morning, drinking tons of coffee and not getting up until early afternoon next day. It's almost as if she was deliberately trying to go nocturnal as an experiment. Her room is foul and she just didn't do anything and worryingly didn't meet any friends. I read a couple of books on teens and decided to back off on a couple of things and relations got better towards the end of the holidays. They got 9 weeks off (private school) which really didn't help with all the inertia.

Her report at the end of year 10 wasn't great, but she's been saying all the right things about needing to get good marks this year. As an aside, she did an external Latin exam, a subject she did voluntarily even though she hated it, and despite the teacher despairing that she never did the work and was a nightmare to teach, she got an A*. I honestly hoped she'd screwed it up to teach her a lesson to make an effort. She's even talked about wanting to go to college in America (have had to let her down gently on that - can't begin to understand how anyone pays for it). We are signing up for 6th form open days as she doesn't want to stay where she is.

But. On Friday she had a detention for not handing in work and then her form tutor has put her on report (has to prove to her tutor every day that she's done homework etc). Several teachers had said her homework wasn't done, she often didn't have the right books and wasn't engaging in lessons. We hit the roof. She spent all weekend doing homework but she really isn't contrite at all. I've spoken to her tutor today. He commented that it's unusual for a bright teenage girl to be so lackadaisical and she's much more like a teen boy (e.g. saying all the right things but not putting it into action). It really struck me. The norm seems to be for teen girls to be pleasers. She couldn't give a shit! I've been catastrophising all weekend and worrying that she's depressed, but I wonder if I'd be thinking that way if she was a boy. Confusingly my DS in the year below is the neatest, most conscientious, rule-following people pleaser out there.

Not sure what I'm asking really, just a bit bewildered by it all. I wasn't this kind of teenager at all. I would have been mortified and just don't understand. I don't want to be on her case about everything all the time, it's really spoiling our relationship, but I can't let the school behaviour go, and need to help her to get her act together. Anyone got any words of wisdom?

Sorry OP, I think you’re overreacting a bit. This seems like typical teen behaviour to me- I don’t think hitting the roof is especially appropriate or helpful. Does it really matter to you what time she wakes up in school holidays?

have you spoken to her about her aspirations for her future? What does she want to do?

Teen girls often mask ADHD very well and can struggle to organise themselves. They don't often get picked up because they don't fit the stereotype for ADHD boy bouncing off the walls.
May not be anything to do with that and she could just be a bit low and struggling with life. It's a hard year with everyone banging on at them about GCSE'S and making the choices for college A Levels etc.
Have you sat and chatted about how she feels? Any problems you aren't aware of?

Sleeping all day is normal for teens. Mine turns nocturnal during the holidays, theg also have later bodyclockd than adults.

Thank you both, you've really summed up my dilemma. I flip between it being totally normal and she'll grow out of it to feeling worried and guilty that I'm missing something underlying. She's always been a bit of a closed book so it would be really hard to know if there's anything underlying. Puppyseahorse I get your point about sleeping in, and it's one of the things I tried to let go. But it all added to her inertia and it didn't seem to be making her very happy. It's hard to know what to let go and where to draw boundaries. ilovebagpuss I wondered about ADHD. She struggles a bit with motivation sometimes and is definitely chaotic. Even my suggestion that she packs her bag the night before so that she won't be in trouble for not having the right books was treated as really unreasonable. But you're right it's all a bit overwhelming at the moment. There's the looming GCSEs and then lots of questions being lobbed at you about what A levels you want to do and where. Think I'm just going to have to be really calm and love bomb a bit. Thanks again.

I thought ADHD while reading your OP.

I would at least get an assessment, if only to rule it out. If an assessment turns out 'positive',, so to speak, it could make a huge difference to her understanding of herself and to your approach and that of her teachers.

It's worrying that she didn't have contact with friends for the duration of the summer break. Depression often goes hand in hand with ADHD in girls.

The tip of a room, sleeping habits - all could be 'normal', but I would get an assessment done all the same.

Don't get on a years long waiting list for an NHS appointment. If you can afford it, do it privately, and soon.

Do a little reading up on executive function problems.

Your DD sounds just like me when I was a teen, and like my DS.

Bright kids in academic schools can sometimes stop trying because of fear of failure (the thought process goes something like- everyone thinks I'm bright and I must maintain that perception; if I try my best and do less than perfectly, it will be evidence that I'm not as bright as they think; therefore I must avoid trying my best so that any failure to produce perfection can be blamed on my failure to try). Obviously this isn't necessarily consciously thought-out and from the outside it makes little sense. That desire to maintain people's perceptions is powerful though. Although it doesn't seem like it, it's related to perfectionism- some kids feel they need to be perfect and so work as hard as they can, others feel they need to be perfect and so opt out completely so that nobody rumbles them.

There's a good book called He's Not Lazy by Dr Adam Price which explains all this very well. It focuses on boys because the trait is more often seen in boys but it can appear in girls as well. It's a big leap of faith to accept that this sort of opting out stems from fear of failure and needs support rather than punishment but it is well worth trying.

What worked for me was kindness rather than shouting (my parents definitely did a lot of the latter- it was only when I went to boarding school that I got the support I needed), simple things like a bit of support to have the right stuff at the right time (such as a noticeboard for my timetable, enough stationery, nice things I could take a bit of pride in, because it's miserable feeling so chaotic and incapable), reassurance that I wasn't actually expected to already know everything and do everything perfectly and that getting things wrong was a necessary part of learning rather than proof that I wasn't as clever as people thought.

I think a change of school for sixth form might be a very good idea if she's got herself into a combative mindset with her current school. A fresh start might really help.

You said bright and quirky and my first thought was ASD - sums my ds up perfectly! ASD can cause issues with executive function just like ADHD.

Fwiw a lot of the us universities have needs based scholarships so they aren’t out of the question!

I can see it’s already been mentioned, but I’ll just add that my teen DD has been like this since age 12 and now, at almost 14, is on the diagnostic pathways for ADHD and ASC.

This is all enormously helpful thank you! I'll talk to the school again and see if they agree that we should look at an assessment. Can I ask how on earth people have approached the subject with their older children though? If I have to raise it with her she will be completely horrified. Eleusa your point occurred to me too. I remember particularly boys at school seemed to deliberately not try so their intelligence couldn't be tested and said we didn't want to pressure her into feeling like she had to get amazing grades, only that we didn't want her to regret anything.

My dd was exactly like this - diagnosed with Asperger's

Second that of getting an appointment

My DD recognised herself that she may have ADHD. We were then advised to also assess for ASC and for some reason she was horrified at that suggestion. I explained comorbidity with other conditions and she’s still adamant that she is NOT autistic, but appreciates she is having the assessment. I think she possibly has both. My youngest (10) is diagnosed.

Thanks all so much. I feel a bit poleaxed tbh. I went into her room with fresh eyes before she got home and the things you've said are resonating. Can I ask how the diagnosis helps? Are you offered medication or therapy? I'd love to give her a massive hug. I still think the very suggestion of being tested would make her really upset. What if it turned out to be negative? She'd never forgive me.

Regardless of whether she has an aspergers or ADHD diagnosis or not, something is awry; a teenage girl who has spent her summer break alone in her room is very likely not a happy teenage girl. It was a gorgeous, warm summer too.

She is trying to leave something behind and start again, as evidenced by wanting to go to a different sixth form college, and her desire to go to university in the US. She's trying to shake something off.

Maybe talk up any assessment you arrange by emphasizing how girls are very often overlooked and considered to be doing fine if they perform pretty well academically in school, while so many struggle under the surface, whether from undiagnosed learning issues or undiagnosed depression even if mild.

Assure her that school performance isn't the be all and end all, and that looking to the future it's important to understand what gifts and barriers she's dealing with so she can make choices that are right for her and not be shoehorn into something that would make her miserable based purely on academic results.

It might be a good idea for her form tutor to get involved, or if there's any other teacher she has a good rapport with, maybe he or she could be involved in the conversation.

• shoehorned

As an adult going through the diagnosis process, when I first read about adhd and how it manifests in girls I cried. All of a sudden it explained that I wasn't lazy or messy and why I felt differently.
I would go in and explain that you've noticed some behaviours that you've previously been mad at her for and that now you think there might be a reason. Take some articles on your phone or a video from YouTube something she can watch and visualise.
Hug her and tell her it doesn't mena thete is something wrong but that she can get support to make life easier x

She sounds like my dd who was diagnosed with ADHD in Year 10. It's also likely that she's autistic.

She is now year 13 and excelling academically.

Feel free to message me and I'll do my best to help.

OP you said your DD isn't the sort of teenager you were, but what sort of teenager was your partner (think you said we, hope I'm not assuming) - I am like my DS while my DD is like my DH, to the core. It really helps me to understand the one I'm like (luckily the one I'm not like, who is fab, isn't a teenager yet, we will see about that in the future)

It could be dyspraxia as well OP, sounds just like my DD at that age. She still struggles with executive function stuff but is a million miles better now she's in her 20s.

Thank you. I've emailed the school this morning to ask for their views and concerns.

I think diagnosis really helps because any other negative labels which they or others apply to themselves can be really damaging, as they aren’t true. Such as lazy, messy, disorganised etc.

It gives them a reason for why they struggle and helps it all to make sense. There is medication available for ADHD which is used to great effect by many.