Jobs and hours expected to work

[saffy56]

In July my DD started a part time job in a shop in an out of town shopping centre - alot of her friends also have shop jobs within the shopping centre too. My DD's contract is 8 hours which at interview was agreed as 6 hours on a Sunday and 4 after 6th form one day a week. Unfortunately the bus she would have got from school to her place of work has been discontinued from September so although she can get 2 buses this means she only do a 3 hour of an evening. 4 hour is the minimum shift they offer. They have also said she needs to do 2 evening of 4 hours plus her Sunday to keep her job.

It seems to have happened to alot of her friends who as well, who work in other shops, some who are only on 4 hour contracts - basically to keep their jobs they cant just do a weekend has to be 2 evenings a week as well. In the interview she specified she only wanted one weekend day and an evening when 6th form starts which they said was fine.

She had done so well to get through an interview and she is just beginning to find her feet but it sounds like if they won't budge she can't work there anymore. The bus being discontinued is out of her control. Is this how teens are treated in the workplace nowadays - if you can't do the hours we want there is no compromise!!!

It isn't the employer's fault either though. Your dc committed to certain shifts and now cannot fulfil them. The alternative would be 0 hours with no guarantee of a minimum. Are there other retail jobs which are perhaps more flexible? Or could they get an uber with others?

It will all depend on when they need staff. If they can easily find staff for weekends, but struggle to recruit for mid week this is how they manage it, by splitting the job as an attractive weekend shift and a mid week one. Logical and fair, it is not their look out where staff live and whether they can commute or not.

ds has the opposite problem, his job wants him in more in the weekend as they cannot get enough staff in and it is a huge problem if he wants a Saturday off. He is wanting to do other things at the weekend and work more mid week.

If she prefers weekends can try the fast food places? He is in dominos and they always seem to be short of people at the weekends.

It depends on what her contract says, i will guess it says something like fully flexible btwn the hours of ....opening hours of the store ..... the same goes for her contracted hours, it will depend on the contract.
Unfortunatly the issue with the bus isnt the employers problem.

She is still quite happy to do weekends but they will not allow it without 2 midweek shifts.

Her age isn't relevant here. Plenty of working people are reliant on public transport. They will have a rota based on hours needed and this will be focused on when there is a need for a set number of staff on the shop floor or out the back. If your daughter is no longer able to work the hours this business needs, unfortunately she's expendable. This would be the same for an adult.

Is there any alternative - can you drive her to and from? Is there anyone else going that way who could help? She'll be 16 or over I assume, so she could do her CBT and use a moped for college and work - although that comes at a cost of buying and running a cheap moped, plus buying the helmet etc. It would, however, give her significant independence.

She can't just say "oh I can't do the 4h you want, so I'll just fo 3h" - surely you understand that? Her age us irrelevant, if staffing is needed 4pm-8pm and she can only do 5pm-8pm, who is going to cover the 1h? They'll get someone else who can do the 4h.

With regards to needing to do an extra week day shift, moot point if she can't do the full shift anyway. But say she can, then if she's on a zero hour contract (which she probably is), that's how it works I'm afraid. Nothing to do with her age- blame the nature of zero hour contracts.

I understand it is not their problem about the bus but thought they would be a bit more understanding. I think it is very easy to get staff who will do the weekend and 2 evenings but she wouldn't have taken the job if they had said it would be 2 evenings. Her contract states 8 hours a week plus overtime as and when required and they expect 14 hrs.

Her contract states 8 hours a week

Does the contract specify specific shifts?

Assuming not, they are within rights to state two 4h evening shifts are contracted, weekend (which is an easier shift to cover) is overtime if she wants it.

Its not a teenage thing. Its just how jobs work- businesses aren't really interested in how their staff get to work etc. They just want people to turn up for when they specify according to the needs of the business.

It's an employee's market right now - there are more jobs avaliable than job seekers looking.

So she can just look elsewhere for a job. There are tons, it doesn't have to be retail.

What do you expect them to do, tell the person who finishes at 4 they have to work an extra hour because your dd cant get there on time?

Or recruit someone else to job share the shifts with your dd? Or do a whole new shift pattern for everyone to fit around your dd.

I know it is disappointing, but if she cant do the hours they need she needs to look elsewhere that has hours that do suit.

It just seems that around here over the summer loads of teens have been employed on 4/6/8 hour contracts in shops and they have then been given lots of overtime but now college and school is re starting the shops still seem to expect them to work more than their contract states. I understand they need to fulfill their contracted hours but surely they should be able to turn down hours above their contract and still keep their contracted hours.

Another problem she seems to have is because rotas need to be done in advance (understandably) and she has no timetable until she starts 6th form next week she can't give availability yet - she may find she finishes at 3pm one day but they can't wait for this so they have just given her these shifts and if she can't fulfill them then her job won't be kept open. The year 13's are ok as they have timetables already or at least a rough idea.

I think I was a bit naïve and thought they would understand this but I think they want and need staff and if you can't do what they want to make their business work they will get someone else even if they have invested lots of time and money training you up.

It just seems so different to the companies (not retail) I have worked for.

You and your DD were naive. The issue with new Y12s not knowing availability for Sept shifts is country wide and always has been the same. Its not new, not unique to this retailer or region. You sound a bit precious about it really, businesses are businesses.

For what its worth, my experience with DD18 and DS16 (both work in a leisure centre) is that new staff get the shifts noone wants to do. The longer you are there, the more able you are to dictate which shifts you want (within business need).

Both my DC hate Sunday shifts - but while DD18 might be offered 6 shifts and choose 2 or 3 she wants, DS16 (new member of staff) is offered the universally hated Sunday shift that noone wants, plus one evening. So he little choice. He cant say no because, as Newbie, its that or nothing. His time will come when other Newbies start and they get made to do Sundays.

I dont think its how teens are treated I think its how employees are treated. Employers dont have to fall over themselves to keep staff there will be a queue of people ready to take the hours if your daughter can't do them.

I think you are right - there are people who can do the shifts without a problem. I was under the impression that if you were a student they would try and accommodate hours to suit you but as you say they don't really care because they can always recruit new staff.

@saffy56 There will always be accommodations that staff want though - at what point does the business only act for its own interests?

A shop can't be expected to allow for every person's needs and wants for hours and has to be able to respond to the numbers of people needed to staff the place during its opening times.

Your daughter is being offered above her minimum hours on an 8hr contract - that's really good for her. She should try to manage them if she wants to then take up more hours in the holidays.

If you've no experience of retail as you say, then I'm afraid this is the big bad world of retail in a nutshell.

Are any of her friends on shifts at the same time at other stores in the area?Would it be more worthwhile to split a taxi fare and do the shifts than lose the job?

This ^

I agree with everyone else. This isn't a teen thing, it is employers looking at what they need for their business to run.

In my recent experience, knowing lots and lots of youngsters that work in shops around their studies, the 8 hours thing is just that they will give you a minimum of 8 hours a week, but most will offer extra shifts. How much that "offer" becomes "demand" varies with different management. But also, to some extent skills and how much of a shortage or a plethora of potential other people there are wanting hours.