Worried about daughter (drugs, mental health)

[usernae]

My daughter is 17, almost 18 years old and I feel like I don't understand her at all anymore.

What I'm dealing with is excessive partying, she gets black out drunk at least once a week, has friends literally carry her home and seems unbothered by, slightly amused or even proud of it. She shows concerning interest in hard drugs, talks about "wanting to try all the drugs at some point" and means it, too. When I tell her she's talking nonsense and I'm getting worried, she shrugs it off as a joke, becomes defensive or upset.

She also doesn't seem to do anything productive at all in her free time, spends entire days watching TV or videos in her phone during the holidays, doesn't want to call up and spend time with her friends because "they're all boring and annoying". Instead she watches films about heroin, plays angry songs on the guitar and is in a bad mood constantly, snappy when we try to talk to her and starting aimless, meandering conversations about the meaning of life and why she doesn't like this or that or anything. She gets agitated, too, and starts crying because I don't buy into her belief that everything is meaningless - she feels misunderstood.

She has always been very open about her life and tells us everything almost unfiltered, and so I'm just hearing all these stories about her getting drunk out of her mind, making out with her friends (both boys and girls), that's all that her life seems to be about at this point during the schoolyear. Now during the holidays she's sitting at home and annoyed with everyone and everything. The only thing that gives her a good time is alcohol, she even says it, half jokingly, but she doesn't drink on a regular basis so I also don't think she has a drinking problem (yet)? What do you think? But she is at a high risk for it and we live in a country where she can legally buy all the alcohol she wants so I can hardly forbid her to go out of the house. So, I see the worst case coming. Or even worse.

I'm worried it might not be enough for her. A couple weeks ago we had this discussion/row about psychedelic drugs and she was so adamantly in favor of them, you'd think she'd already tried them. I would have known if she had (she can't keep a secret), it's all just WANTING TO so far, but it seems inevitable that one day she'll tell me she's tried things I can't even think of. I don't know what to say to her anymore. She doesn't mind, only wants more and more intense experiences, no regular activities seem to give her what she wants. This is a dangerous mindset and I don't know how to talk her out of it.

It's important to note she's a very smart and insanely gifted girl. She performs outstandingly well at school although she doesn't give two shits about it and never does her homework, only what's necessary to keep her teachers "satisfied" or impressed. She learns new skills at an almost frightening speed, could read and write as much as 2 years before her peers, devoured books all throughout her childhood, so much we had to limit her reading to one hour per day so it wouldn't damage her eyes. She's also incredibly musically gifted, plays several instruments, and learns these skills with such an ease, such a natural drive - and so fast. However, she teaches herself, so far every time we started her on music lessons she quit because she doesn't like "being forced to do something". (We never forced her to do anything) Also, she loses interest in pretty much everything after some time passes - even the things she was passionate about one day can be forgotten the next. Still, she's known everywhere as the one to ask if you need a musician of any sort for an event for example. She was also interested in quantum physics and philosophy, used to or still does write books or stories and draw/paint.

All in all, what I'm trying to say, she's not stupid. You'd think she would have the brains not to throw her life away at 17 but exactly that is what she's fantasising about. She knows everything about these drugs, probably, more than me or anyone. She keeps watching these films and videos, she knows the risk. But she doesn't seem to understand the significance of it. It's like when you tell a young child not to climb a tree because they might fall down and get hurt, and they do it anyway because they don't understnad that falling down is really BAD. (By the way, she was a big tree climber) She's even said something along the lines of "getting addicted to something sounds fun, with all the withdrawals and stuff." She WANTS to "ruin" her life to make it more interesting.

She is, as I said, bored quickly, always looking for dramatic turns of events. She spent two years mourning the death of a celebrity crush a few years ago, she even had a phase at age 12 when she was marching around singing nazi military songs, claiming to "want to be a soldier" when she grows up. It's because she finds this stuff interesting. She's drawn to the darker sides of society, and of her own mind, because she's bored with the normal life. She's a wannabe artist, plagued by made-up inner demons and looking up to controversial characters. Is this normal for teenagers? Because her friends are not like that.

Maybe her judgement is just skewed and immature because she's never really had to suffer the consequences of anything. She's never fallen from a tree when climbing because she was good at it. She's never done anything that was "wrong" enough to affect her negatively enough to know that "indeed doing what they tell you not to is not a good idea". Because her judgement's been good enough to know what would turn out okay so far or her intelligence has made up for lacking wisdom. But not this time!

Of course, besides just being bored or sensation-seeking, she's also deeply unhappy. All the talk about
"children around me depress me, how dare they enjoy life"
"there's something very wrong with me"
"yes, I'm selfish but in a way that I care too much, so I pretend to not care at all"
etc... is that self-pity? Romanticisation of being unhappy? Teenage indulgence in self-induced misery? Or is it something I should be worried about?

She was a sensitive and anxious child, found it difficult to make friends in her early childhood and was easier to upset than other children. She wouldn't eat most foods, was scared of some people just because something about their vibe was off for her and almost until now, she has had a fear of or at least nervousness around phone calls. We've always encouraged and challenged her and she's much better in that regard now, for a few years she's been even one of the more outgoing and confident ones in her always changing circles of friends (teenagers nowadays are generally a socially incompetent bunch it seems). But I think sometimes she cares too much about what others think of her. And as soon as she considers someone a friend, she cares too little. There's no in-between.

About her friends... she never has close friendships. She's had one best friend, in primary school, but the contact to this girl broke off when they were 12.
She always tells us how she wants this type of close friendship she sees on TV, young guys getting up to nonsense together, but "the people at her school aren't like this" or "she always ends up with the wrong group and doesn't want to try and join the better group". Also, her friends aren't encouraging her to do drugs, on the contrary, she tells me they "argue about this all the time" and "they hate me just because I'm not a boring square like them". So, they're well-adjusted, healthy young people and she's the troublemaker and the instigator who comes UP with their teenage shenanigans while the others just stand by and watch more often than not. This is something I have no idea how to handle because she's never been the rebellious type. This is why she doesn't feel strongly connected to her friends. They're not the wrong crowd but she feels like she belongs to the wrong crowd, but is too shy to approach the wrong crowd. I don't know if I should be relieved or even more worried about the future.

She also doesn't seem to know who she is and what she wants out of life. She's been having an identity crisis for years now about wanting to be a boy, and she also dresses and looks like a boy but she doesn't want to be a transgender. However, she can't let it go and makes herself unhappy all the time by having these thoughts of wanting to be male. I guess I will post on this specific problem in the other forum. But this may be one of the biggest contributors in her self-destructive behaviour, with all the drinking, she drinks to forget about her problems.

How can I teach her that this is not the way to go? I have never enjoyed the feeling of "being out of control" on drugs (alcohol included) myself but she loves it. I don't know how to explain things to her because I don't relate to her. Also, I can't stop her from going out with her friends, especially during the school year because she goes to boarding school. And I do want her to socialise and meet friends, she was so shy and withdrawn in her early teens.

But I don't like where this is going. I'm alone with this because her mother can't join me (I'd like to keep the reasons private) and I've always been the more encouraging, laid-back parent who lets her do her thing. I'm talking to her about purpose and religion and what's right and wrong but it all goes over her head. Is there any way I can stop her or will I have to let her make her own experiences? It's not like I've had much experience with her envisioned lifestyle.

I hate seeing my child unhappy and watching helplessly.

She used to be such a cheerful kid, and now she's a sulking, selfish, overthinking, wannabe rebel.

How do I maintain a healthy relationship with her during all of this? At the moment I'm supportive enough that she still tells me everything I've written about, and I don't know if that's everything she does and thinks but I do trust her.

I'd like to hear some thoughts on our situation.

Of course anything we say as people who have only read yourpost should be taken with a pinch of salt as we don't know her or her situation. But I thought it worth saying two things. One is that much of what you say is archetypal teenage angst, so much so that it almost sounds like a parody of teenhood (I don't mean that as a criticism at all, just trying to indicate how perfectly she seems to fit a typical type of teen behaviour).
The second thing I wanted to say is that it is amazingly positive that she talks so freely with you. Even if she is sometimes just trying to get a reaction, it is still great and gives you so much more chance of supporting her than is often the case. She seems to have a strong and active social life too, even though you have concerns about it. That is also very positive.

So there is a lot in your post that makes me think that all may be well ultimately.

I echo the previous poster on the fact although it sounds extreme she sounds like a wonderful bright spirited girl who is exploring life with the support of telling her dad ( I assume ) .
There are some concerns ofc . The drinking ( often a phase ) is that at boarding school? Is it true ? Have school raised any behaviour concerns ? . The making out and gender issues quite normal for this age / society . The risk taking , wanting to be in the popular group , normal behaviour .

With her earlier age presentation of acquiring skills easily , high intelligence but not confident socially has it ever been questioned about possibility of her having Asperger's syndrome or ADHD . Girls often mask this v well but can be great risk takers and maybe find alcohol useful to calm social anxiety .

You mention boarding school . This will be a very structured environment, very different from home . If she likes boarding this may be another indication of asd ? If she doesn't like boarding could she be looking for excitement when she's not there .

My DD is v bright too , she wants to be a forensic psychologist and it's a strong possibility she will get the grades to do whatever . She is also drawn to the darker underbelly of life , she watches things about crime and murder for purpose of "research" and wants to dissect and analyse through discussion. ( my profession was in psychology so I'm v happy to be part of these discussions)

While still doing well in school she switched friendships to join in with " the shameless group " . Even school expressed concerns about her friendship choices and even warned me , it's been 12 months of watching her do and hearing her say things that are very like your DD so I know your worry .

You ask what you can do . Good point , although you aren't fixing her back into your cheerful kid you are listening to her and caring about her . Keep doing that , share your concerns during your discussion with her but in a non emotional caring way .

Have you discussed her seeing a gp in case it's anxiety . You mention mum not involved ? Is there a trauma / disruption she's struggling with ,

I have a 14 year old very like what you describe in discussions and her thought processes , she is receiving counselling related to a past trauma and her behaviour was so extreme that we had to request support from SS and the police due to her risky behaviour and age .

In reality your dd is not far off from being an adult . You need to keep the relationship between you strong like you say it is , it's a v hard road , I speak as a person with many years experience in a high professional role of working with children and a mother . It is really tough , and difficult for more years to come but my prediction is be her early 20s she will be an adult looking back with embarrassment/ amusement with her dad by her side using all the skills she has and doing good . Hang on and all the best

Sorry forgot to say does she do any sports?
Teenagers need to move and be challenged . MMA has been fantastic for my Dd and we do it as a family , has created a new bond with her and dad as he often works away .

I think she sounds interesting! Also thought if adhd though not sure it helps to consider it

It's really hard op but at some point as a parent you are going to have to just watch her mistakes with her life.

When I was her age I took a lot of drugs.. hung out with unsuitable people.. made bad decisions...was over emotional..etc etc

I would say it took til my mid 20s to really pull myself into a more focused adult frame of mind. If I told you some of my behaviour here you would be very shocked...yet I'm now a grown up with a good job and I barely drink certainly haven't taken drugs since my 20s.

Is it possible you are jyat watching this all a bit up close ? Sounds like she needs to fly the nest and go and make these mistakes without you watching.

Thank you for your answers. Yes, she drinks at boarding school, although it's forbidden there. It's a christian boarding school and it's even vegetarian. That's why she often eats out, and spends almost her entire money inviting others out and buying alcohol. She hides the bottles in her room and they don't suspect a thing. Most girls in her boarding house seem to know and occasionally join her for room parties.

They trust the students a lot there, let them go anywhere they want as long as they come home in time for the fixed bedtimes for their age. My daughter often comes home late but doesn't face consequences because of her outstanding school performance. I'd say it was stricter at home with us than it is for her now at boarding school. Of course, there's more structure, which she said herself was "good for her" but she also ends up missing half the (admittedly short and incinvenient) meal times and often living off of one warm meal a day or less and snacks, often because she often had "better things to do at that exact time". But she orders herself food instead, she's not keeping herself hungry on purpose. Usually, as long as she has regular school hours, she goes to lunch, too, with her friends.

The school isn't very concerned about her but they don't know a thing about what she's really up to. She's both incredibly lucky and clever with hiding it. They have a quite student-oriented approach there, and really care about their boarders, too, and write them personal reports, but in my daughter's report it was all "she never comes by to talk to us" "we only see her passing by" "we'd like to get to know her better". They have mandatory talks with her where they ask her about her life and how she feels about everything. And when she's asked, she willingly talks about everything. Her mum, the complicated reasons why she came to boarding school. Well, almost everything. Everything that won't get her in trouble. But you have to ask those specific questions. I'm the only one she spontaneously complains to, and I don't know about her friends.

She actually decided to go to boarding school a year ago because 1. it was difficult at home, 2. she was "getting bored with living at the same place for all her life", 3. she wanted to experience living away from home, 4. she wanted a fresh start with new friends while also keeping her old friends. It is different from home, in some ways better for her (can go wherever she wants and only has to be home at 11 or 12), in some ways "worse" (she has more responsibilities etc.). She does like the fixed times and schedules, especially since she finds it hard to stick to schedules and learns there not to be late all the time.

I have briefly thought about ADHD and ASD, but we had her tested for it at age 3 or 4, and it turned out she was normal. She's friends with a girl who has ADHD and owes her tons of money and they're both broke. She jokes herself about having almost all symptoms of it too but luckily not having the diagnosis. She can't get herself organised, can't bring herself to work productively on anything, etc. I don't know. We've been told before that she doesn't have these conditions, so I trust in the doctors from back then. And after all, she doesn't have tremendous difficulty with her day to day life.

She's actually come to me a couple times saying she wants a therapist because she feels like there's something wrong with her and she wants someone to fix it. I've done some research but nothing serious yet, I think it would be good for her but finding the right one seems like a daunting task. Should I still look more into it?
Yes her mum hasn't been able to be a proper mum to her for more than 6 years now, due to mental illness and personal problems. So that is missing in her life but she has a close relationship to her grandma, too, although we live a 2-hour drive away from my wife's parents, so we don't visit them often. My daughter has completely given up wanting to do anything with her mum, did struggle with it in the beginning but it's like she's almost dead to her now. This is both sad and not the way I want her to cope with it. She also doesn't like living at home because of that, she doesn't want to have to be around her mother. This is understandable because living with my wife is quite the challenge emotionally, however I can see how this can affect her and me too, of course.

As for sports, she works out maybe 2-3 times a week for 30 mins to an hour and always tells me how many push ups she can do now xD

She went through a lot of different team sports etc. but always quit when she was getting bored with them or felt like they expected too much of her because she initially exceeded their expectations. She hates when you expect too much of her, she always wants to exceed the expectations. But I'm sure she'll want to start something new soon.

From what I've read, I guess I will just continue to let her talk to me about anything, let her make her own decisions since she's 18 soon, and hope for the best. Also, good luck with your daughter, if she's like mine, let's hope they both turn out happy adults.

You're probably right that I know too much about what she's doing etc. but she tells me herself, mostly! She used to tell me even more but since finding out what makes me disappointed, worried or generally react negatively, there's more and more I'm not so sure of because she probably keeps it a secret. She also doesn't live at home, so I should probably ask her less about what she's up to... it just feels nice to have such a strong connection.

But it's certainly reassuring to know there are people who were like this in their teens and became responsible adults later. I just don't know where she got this from, both me and my wife were boring and well-behaved, in comparison.

I went to private school - and had friends at boarding - drug taking was RIFE - as was alcohol abuse etc - I am 44 year old now - among my former drug taking friends (we were out partying throughout the late 90s - wild raving / partying/ out all night taking all sorts of drugs) - they are now - a GP/ social worker/ senior corporate lawyer/ journalists/ some of the biggest party people are now the most reserved/ sensible - all have families and live very boring normal lives now! None continued with the drugs and partying much beyond mid 20s.

What put me on the 'straight and narrow' was finding my feet in the world of work in my mid 20s and wanting to focus on that. I promise you would not have thought I was in any way sensible until then - I seemed (and was) pretty out of control.

I had therapy in my late 20s - she would probably really benefit. Again - the 'feeling something is not right' reminds me of my own ADHD. However - there isn't much support anyway for those with a diagnosis so it's not the be all and end all.

It may be that this isn't how you spent your teen years but I would say what she is doing is normal - I would try to take a step back and just accept she is going to make her own mistakes and live her own life.

She is young and creative wild young people need to go and burn their own trails!

Aw, you've got yourself a little undiagnosed neurodivergent there.