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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Don't know how to fix this

15 replies

WoodforTrees · 28/04/2022 14:34

So much backstory but I hate long OPs so i am going to try and be spare in my summary. This might lead to drip feeding later - sorry in advance!

DD (16) has always been prickly and difficult - even as a toddler. She obviously has her moments and on the rare occasions I penetrate the porcupine exterior, there is sadness and vulnerability there. She is is also smart, funny and has a big heart - lots to love but lots to struggle with. Part of her behaviour is down to her personality - she just is who she is - but a lot of it has been shaped by the way DH and I have interacted over the last few years. Without going into too much details, we have been in a very bad place and had a lot to deal with including three 'natural' bereavements, financial loss and a further avoidable close bereavement . DH has coped with this by drinking too much, which has led to him being angry and verbally aggressive at times. He is also - by nature - someone who sees things in black and white and think discipline and punishment are the default responses to any bad behaviour - he has historically reacted to DD's bad behaviour by dishing out a random punishment - usually taking her phone. He is quite emotionally basic.... This is all balanced out by being someone she can talk to openly and honestly a lot of things that most teens might hide from their dad but they have a relationship of extremes. Either they are super close or at loggerheads.

In the last year, DH has now taken huge steps to break his cycle of anger - he has stopped drinking and is far calmer, but, the damage to DD has been done. He is now far more measured and tolerant but still quite extreme by nature - so for example DD is a bit rude and he will threaten to take her phone and ground her for a month - and has form for being quite over-bearing and shouty when he finally loses his temper. I counter this by being too soft and effectively undermining him in order to trying and redress the balance, and then he is annoyed at me for not supporting him. I find it hard to support him when I think he is over-reacting and on it goes....

The net result of this is that DD is full of rage. She is angry with me for not protecting her and her DB better, from DH's shouting when it was at its worst . She is angry at DH for not being more emotionally mature and a better role model. She is angry at both of us wasted days, weeks, months that were ruined by family conflict. She is angry with the whole world. She is angry at the fact that she is angry. She feels cheated of her happiness.

For the past year - due to the huge efforts made by DH (whose previous behaviour i am NOT defending) things could have been hugely improved. But DD is angry by this change as well - as though we are all pretending the past never happened - we are not. DH has acknowledged and apologised but he is still not perfect, and this is not enough for DD. She wants to turn the clock back and for him to 'do better'.

DD now has so much rage that she can't contain it. She is defiant way beyond the scope of a normal teen, she is confrontational even when she knows it is likely to escalate into a full blown row and she seems determined to push a now far more passive DH for days on end until he finally blows and loses his temper. Then she points the finger saying 'see, nothing has changed'.

She is seeing a councillor who has told her that her anger is understandable and this seems to have given her a message that her rage can go unchecked. I agree that her anger is understandable but I was hoping for some help with unpacking it, and managing it. But things seem to be escalating.

And now, she has become physically violent with me. The first time it happened we were both so shocked that i held and cuddled whilst she sobbed her 'sorry' at me, but this has happened three times now. She has got in my face and prodded by chest hard enough to bruise, she has pulled my hair and punched my arm. If I try to remove myself from the situation, she stands in the doorway goading me to hit her (I never would)

It happened again this morning and was really nasty. She now upstairs sobbing because I have told her that she has crossed a line and my compassion is done for the moment and that she can't go out this weekend. . She is telling me that her friendships are her only release from how much she hates being at home and by depriving her that opportunity, I am making everything even worse. She is probably right that she will feel even more angry, but I believe she has crossed a line and needs boundaries or how does she learn that anger is one thing, and I am prepared to work through that with her, but violence is never acceptable.

And then once this weekend is done, how the fuck do I move this forward? I don't have much confidence in her councillor who seems to just say everything DD wants to hear but then again, I might be in denial and perhaps all of this is justified and I need to accept that we've broken her beyond repair.

DH's doesn't even know about her being physical with me. I can't see how him knowing (and becoming furious) will help anyone.

I feel broken and shit and like the worst mother in the world. Any advice very gratefully received.

OP posts:
lljkk · 28/04/2022 14:49

that sounds tough. I'm glad you're being candid about how you got in this mess.

Despair won't help. Don't believe she's broken beyond repair but it's going to take a long time to feel like things are even half-repaired.

I'm going to refrain from comment on the physical violence for now; I suspect you would move heaven and earth to repair the relationship in a wider way, not just declare zero tolerance: this situation doesn't have a simple solution.

if you asked your DD what she wants to happen now (in her life, in her household, your DH's behaviour) -- what would she say?

StopGo · 28/04/2022 15:35

You can't fix it. DD has every right to be angry with you and DH. You stood by and enabled the abuse of both your DC by their alcoholic father.

Her violence towards you is totally unacceptable and is domestic abuse. You need to calmly explain to her that DV is unacceptable and must not happen again. It won't be easy as she knows no better, she's spent 16 years living with it.

Counselling for her will be a long term commitment. Counselling for you is essential and urgent.

You may have to accept that she may never be able to forgive either of you.

WoodforTrees · 28/04/2022 21:47

Thank you @lljkk I definitely feel responsibility although even if i had my time again, I am not sure that i could have made things any better. There were just so many sucker punches to DH and I across the past five years and we proved that we weren't up to the job of not falling apart. I retreated into a shell and DH was angry.

I get that there is nothing I can do to fix it. I wasn't using the term 'fix' in a frivolous quick-fix / all say sorry and move on, kind of way - I was asking what I should do to move things forward without doing any more harm and perhaps beginning some kind of repair. Both the DC are my priority and I have asked her what she wants. She says she doesn't know.

@StopGo thanks for your input - disheartening as it is. Why would I urgently need counselling?

OP posts:
HairyBum · 28/04/2022 22:03

i want to give you a hug!!

as adults you both need to have mature responses to these incidents.

prewarn your DD that you’ll contact the police and her school if she hurts you again. Follow through.

go for family therapy. Your DH also could do therapy independently to work out better coping strategies.

the best thing to do when she’s upset is listen, acknowledge her upset and stay calm. Go for a walk alone if things get too heated. Once calmer warmly ask for some time, you can work on solutions together, what does she think is the best way forward?

your DH is reactive and this is the worst possible behaviour

HairyBum · 28/04/2022 22:07

Is she simply rein-acting your DHs behaviour?

Shedcity · 28/04/2022 22:12

She just doesn’t know what the fuck is going on.
dad was angry now he’s not, but sort of is, if she acts out she may get nothing or she may be grounded for an extremely long time and her phone taken away. Has she got any rules or boundaries or are there just extremes and no one wants to make her more angry and everyone feels a bit guilty over before.

she needs to know where she stands.
you and DH need to talk, you need to tell him what’s been going on, he needs to calm down. you then need to make a plan together and go to her with it. You all need to talk get everything out, allow everyone to be heard. Then you move forward
‘i understand that you are hurt, but it’s not ok to treat other people on the house badly, these will be the consequences’
and you outline them (eg rudeness - phone removed in evenings or for 1 day, or pocket money removed.) come up with reasonable clear things and then you all stick to them.
No matter how mad dh gets these are the set punishments, and no matter how lenient you want to be, these are the set punishments.

you all work on building your relationship, particularly dh and dd.

and you have to hope that the structure of curfews, meal times, family time all start to make her feel secure and less unstable and angry.

Acheyknees · 28/04/2022 22:19

Gosh, I want to give you a hug. As mothers I sometimes think we are caught between a rock and a hard place. When our partners are strict and unbending, I think we overcompensate and allow ourselves to be walked all over. Its such a tricky job trying to have a happy family when you seem to be the only one holding it together, while others shout, flounce and sulk. Sometimes I think we lose ourselves as individuals as we're so concerned with trying to keep the peace. Then we get treated like shit by everyone.
What I would say is that your DD has definitely crossed a line, you must make this clear. She has harmed you and must never be allowed to happen again. Please don't sweep it under the carpet and pretend you're OK. You're not, I would step back a bit from all the arguing.

TedMullins · 28/04/2022 22:23

Honestly, this isn’t what you want to hear but she’s right, you should have protected her and her brother better and probably left your H.

My dad also had temper issues and mental health problems and my mum made excuses for him and swept it under the carpet. I get on with her fine now but I think she fundamentally failed me as a parent by not leaving him, and I’ve told her this. I love her but I don’t respect her, and I’ve accepted the situation but I don’t forgive her. Your H seems to be taking responsibility for his actions which is more than my dad did, but I agree family therapy is the least you need to do here.

MadameCholetsDirtySecret · 28/04/2022 22:23

One of the big issues is that your husband has now changed his behaviour. Your DD will be wondering why he didn't do this years ago. She is thinking that all those years of hell were deliberate. Remember she is viewing this with her 16 years of experience - not the experience of a 40 something parent (I'm making an age assumption here obviously).

This isn't going to be easy to navigate.

titchy · 28/04/2022 22:34

I'm quite shocked you say I definitely feel responsibility although even if i had my time again, I am not sure that i could have made things any better.

I'd have expected you to say if you had your time again you'd have left dh and tried to protect your dcs.

Unless you can genuinely feel that I'm not sure anything can help your children- I feel so sorry for them. They must feel very frightened without secure foundation and a family they can trust and rely on.

WoodforTrees · 28/04/2022 22:46

@titchy Yes it probably is shocking, but i think it's the truth. I could say that I would have left after the first beer and snappy response, but he was initially grieving, so I cut him some slack, then he was grieving again within months, then I was grieving and then we were sucker punched by a far more shocking death and then a big financial hit and the constant bickering and arguing was insidious and creeping and then covid came, and suddenly it had been shit for four years and I hadn't realised how regular the unpleasantness was. And whilst this was all happening DD was going through puberty and we were both trying to be supportive but getting our heads bitten off (normal) and the cycle of hurt, leading to anger continued. It was a perfect storm. So actually I don't know if I'd have done better second time around. I hope I would but I don't know.

To be clear, I have ALWAYS told DH when he is being unreasonable and pulled him up on his shouting. It's not that I didn't defend my DC, half the problem is that I have refused to align myself with DH when I thought he was being emotionally immature or unreasonable, so we never presented a team.

And now everyone is hurting and angry and I just don't have the capacity to be the sponge that slots between DH and DD absorbing all pain and hurt. And I'm genuinely terrified of what that will mean for us all.

OP posts:
titchy · 28/04/2022 22:53

Were your children grieving too?

I don't think not presenting as a team is problematic actually. In a functional family yes, but not in a dysfunctional one.

Have you considered living separately from your dh, and using the space to really prioritise your children and relationship with them?

BarbedButterfly · 30/04/2022 11:47

This was me and honestly, I have never forgiven either of them. I have almost no contact with my dad and if I am honest, I am still angry with my mother 20 years later and it has affected our relationship. She didn't protect me, she failed me and my siblings and she didn't acknowledge that for a long time. She went with the easy path, not the right one and we had no reprieve from it because we were children.

Have you tried sitting down with her and telling her that you acknowledge that you let her down? Looking back I felt that my mother had all of these excuses but never took responsibility for them or the consequences. You may need to accept also that the relationship with her father may never improve and she may go no contact when she moves out as I did for 10 years.

More counselling is needed, zero tolerance on the violence and a consistent approach from both of you about discipline. She is testing him now to see how long before he slides back. She has lost her trust in both of you and I think you need a professional to help you at this stage, all of you.

HalfShrunkMoreToGo · 30/04/2022 11:56

OP re read your original post because throughout it all you've put all of the blame on your DH.

Your DH was drinking too much, unfair in punishments, shouting.....

You let that happen, or at least that's what your DD will have seen.

Until she consistently experiences a better approach from your DH and you, consistent enough that she can trust it, she will be wary.

I agree with a PP that counselling would benefit all of you not just your DD, individual and potentially joint if it can be done constructively.

Eupraxia · 30/04/2022 12:06

To move forward: Learn de-esculation techniques.

Everyone should learn this from tween age. When you face aggression - de-escalate it. Wait for calm. Then assertively approach the subject at a later time in a calm way.

It's what level headed people do when faced with violence.

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