Is there anything, anything at all that can help with teenage friendship problems?

[Thunderface]

I am so upset and worried tonight. Dd is 15. She has struggled with friendships since starting secondary. She had 2 friends that went from primary to secondary with her and they developed a larger circle of friends. Then Covid happened and it turned out that while they were out of school her friendship group began meeting up without her. She was completely excluded for reasons she's never been able to understand.
It was a big struggle to face back to school but she did and eventually seemed to make new friends. Now the same thing has happened. They have planned something and excluded her.
She is heartbroken. She was in tears all evening wondering what is wrong with her and why no one wants her.
She was depressed earlier this school year and is seeing a counsellor. I just don't know how much more she can take.
I don't know how to help her.

Not sure I have a lot of good advice, but didn't want to leave this unanswered. It's really hard. Some thoughts below, please ignore any that aren't helpful.

Is she sure this new exclusion is actually deliberate and a reflection of how her friendship group see her, rather than a misunderstanding/misperception? (Not saying it isn't, obviously I have no idea.) I do know from watching the teenagers around me (I have 3, so see a lot of them) that most of them have a tendency to catastrophise. Even the secure ones in well-established friendships seem to do it, and the ones that have had friendship knockbacks can be really quick to see the worst in a situation, which can in turn make it worse for them.

Is there anyone within the group she could talk to about it? May definitely not be the answer, but a thought!

Any other kids in similar situations she could team up with? I listened to a podcast about teens and friendship exclusions recently (It's called the askLisa podcast), which had some helpful ideas about looking for the other kids who are in a situation where they want friends, rather than trying to break into established groups.

Does she have good things going on outside school? Anything you can do to boost that - whether it's with friends or with you?

Would it help to 'just get to the Easter holidays'? It's only a week or two, depending where you are, and could have a bit of a reset/try to approach some of the friendlier kids to meet up etc then.

Reading back, I feel sure you will have already thought of all that. I guess something to hold in mind for yourself, and for her to if she can, is that this is just a phase of life. Lots of people have a shit time at secondary school with friendships and go on to have good friendships and relationships. I know that doesn't help when you're in it, and living it, but it might help you to hold on to that as you try to support her. And do what you can to support yourself so you're able to hold her feelings about it all without managing yours within your relationship.

I hope someone else has some proper advice soon, and you're both holding up today.

Thanks seasalt. I appreciate your advice.
I think a lot of it comes from her previous bad experience. She doesn't feel secure in the friendship and I think she needs to feel they want her so she places a lot of importance on being included/invited rather than getting stuck in as an equal.
Once again there seems to be deliberate exclusion though as they have obviously bought tickets to an event (now sold out) and made arrangements while keeping it from her. She sees them everyday at school, has lunch with them, talk online so she feels they hid it from her.
She cried a lot last night but put on a brave face and went to school.
I've asked her to think about talking to her closest friend in the group but she thinks there's no point, they just are not that interested in having her as a friend.
I'm not blind to her faults but she is a nice person, funny and caring.
Life is very unfair.

DS is 16 and I've noticed that the boys seem to have group friendships based on activities, rather than the more intense groups that girls seem to be in.
Does she do any activities or sports that you could divert her to ? Sounds like she needs more and different friends.

I think this happens to almost everyone at some point, but the difference is simply how aware of it the individual is. My DS1 is the same age and was unintentionally incredibly popular throughout primary and early secondary - there'd never been anything he wasn't invited to. Then as far as he could see it suddenly changed and his "closest" friends had a sleepover and he just wasn't invited. It hit him really hard. For a while he was really down and kept saying he had no friends. It was made worse because he asked why and was told that he was on the reserve list, which he said was worse than just saying only 5 could attend or similar.

Actually though he does have friends and its utterly normal not to be flavour of the month always, with everyone. What helped was reminding him his older sister's closest friends drifted away a lot at that age - there was a phase when they didn't all go to each others' houses/ birthdays and had other friends and DD didn't have a 14th party because there was nobody she especially wanted to invite - but they're all really close again now at 16. It's okay to get a bit sick of each other and have other friends or not be joined at the hip, its normal for there to be ebb and flow in friendship, it doesn't all have to be drama and sometimes whether you're invited to something or not doesn't have to mean anything.

It also helped to get him to arrange to meet up with various separate friends 1:1 and remind him to let thinking about the party go. It only matters if you let it.

By contrast DC3 is a bit quirky and has never expected to be invited to everything - because he has mostly 1:1 friendships from separate places and has never really suited groups we've always, right from being little, coached him a bit on the fact nobody is invited to everything and reminded him of the people who do like him for who he is and worked on helping him maintain friendships 1:1 even when he doesn't naturally see the individual regularly (friends who've gone to different schools especially). He's a lot more resilient and pragmatic and logical about not being included in everything and it not being a personal rejection.

Its hard but IMO our role as parents is to stop them catastrophising and encourage and support them to maintain the friendships they do have 1:1 where groups aren't working especially well for them at the moment. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

If you can support and encourage not to catastrophise and not to cut herself off its actually a good life lesson (obviously you don't need to tell her that til afterwards!)

Oh it’s hard to watch them go through it OP

This is going to sound weird but would it be helpful to separate how you are feeling about this from how she is feeling? You are saying how upset you are but it is not happening to you. Is it bringing up anything for you about friendships?

I’ve had to learn the hard way that sometimes we can’t fix things, and that often what our DC need is for us to listen and empathise and trust them to sort their own solutions out. So not making suggestions, not bringing your own feelings into it but more listening and reflecting back how you think they are feeling, eg ‘that sounds hard’ or ‘it sounds like you’re feeling really hurt/scared/embarrassed/whatever the emotions seem to be’ and then - the hardest part - shutting up and letting them talk, cry etc. It’s great she sees you as a safe person she can come to and cry and express her feelings. That is how you are helping her, by being calm and containing and safe for her to come and be heartbroken.

So painful to watch children go through this - I think the above advice is interesting - young people do go through this - I went to an all girls school and it was an endless round of bitchiness and falling out and fear of being picked on. But I survived and remember my teenage years fondly! Horror and all.

It's a ntarual part of teen years to cry/ feel left out/ fall out with people - I'm sure the girls involved here are just being dense and not totally uncaring - if they have been friends before - or it may be one is a bit of a bitch and leading the others on.

It might be that you have to show your daughter you aren't overly worried for her - that this is just part of life.

Could she invite one of the girls round for a 1 to 1 hang out? Or to a cinema etc?

@Thunderface I could of written this about my DD, she is nearly 14 now.

I have no real advice just a handhold as I know how heartbreaking it is to see your child so upset about being excluded.

My DD is desperate to fit into a group, I've sourced some counselling specifically around relationships and self confidence. I'm just hoping it helps

I'm here if you ever want to chat x

Teacher perspective- it’s very likely to be mostly random and a little bit aimed. Iyswim.
For ex: a group of girls will get secure, then try out various group dynamics, including excluding some/one or splitting into pairs etc. They generally don’t realise they are doing it- so it IS random- and not focused at your dd.
However, groups will rarely pick a ‘loud’ girl to do this too. So if it’s happen often it is probably simply that she is a bit of a soft target- not intimidating.
She could ignore/move group - it will likely blow over and she will still be on good terms with the group.
She might also want to look at why - or she might not. Invariably the way to resolve it is to force the issue - if she is bold she could call them out ‘when I realised x, it made me feel y, I wonder if we could organise things like this…’. A good lesson in how to deal with drama! Or she could force it the other way- by organising activities, meet ups and perhaps forcing herself to instigate conversations a bit more- 1-1 or as a group-if the group is intent on excluding it will probably just move on to another quieter girl- or just move on from that phase altogether.
My experience is that both boys and girls do this, though boys tend to do it a little later. And year 9/10s are the absolute worst, but they often grow into very lovely friendships as it passes.

This is heart-breaking. Being abandoned is some of the worst emotional pain out there. I'm hopeful a way forward can be found. Something that helps her experience for herself that there is a lot right with her and that she is very much wanted. The tears sound like a good release and helpful albeit hard to watch. Helping her see a counsellor you're already helping so much. Perhaps a written activity that helps her think through what she would like to happen in this situation including her resources and strengths? www.wisegoals.com/goal-setting-worksheets.html.

Another helpful thing might be the Values in Action questionnaire which would help her identify her own character strengths. After filling it out (10mins), it gives you your top 5 strengths with a description of each. Might lead to something... www.viacharacter.org/

Mind were kindness, creativity, love of learning, appreciation of beauty and spirituality. I met many friends trying to use my strengths more.

Good luck! I really feel your struggle!

Thanks everyone. She is in surprisingly good spirits. I think her resilience is improving.
She has an extra session with the counsellor this week which she finds helpful.
I'll have a look at those links @JamesStevenson.

I’ve just started a very similar thread! Really understand how you feel Thunder. It’s so difficult seeing your child feel like this. There’s some great advice here. I’m also looking into counselling for my dd. She’s a bit of a ‘soft target’ as she is nice and really wants to be liked. Hopefully it will blow over…and I thought the toddler tears were hard!!

i think she needs to toughen up. I remember going through this at a similar age- for no reason I was out of my friendship group. It was absolutely devastating. Lasted about 6 weeks then all was well again. Still one of the top 5 worst times of my life!

I wonder if this generation share more with us. When the above happened to me didnt occur to me to tell my mum. Was crying myself to sleep but if anyone had asked how I was mum would have said fine. Its lovely the girls share all this with us but it drags us parents into the misery of it and frankly you are quite powerless to fix it.

We had this with dd2 last summer. Her friendship group kicked her out and her former best friend spread insane lies about her to try to isolate her so she couldnt make other friends. She sat alone at lunch/walked home alone and arrived home from school in tears. It was bloody awful for her. She walked away from the group and rebuilt now has a new nicer group. Hilariously the evil girl seeing how popular dd is now asked to join her new group! DD told her to fuck off.

At the worst of it listening to Taylor Swift "Mean" and "Best Day" cheered us up. Helped to know this had also happened to Taylor Swift at the same age and shes doing alright!

Absolutely this: ‘At the worst of it listening to Taylor Swift "Mean" and "Best Day" cheered us up. Helped to know this had also happened to Taylor Swift at the same age and shes doing alright!’
So right. The bits teens are still developing are emotional regulation and time-bound prediction- they just cannot tell themselves it will feel different in the future for them. This is what they need us for. And also we all taylor swift.

Oh gosh, I have no advice to offer I'm afraid but my DD is 13 and I could literally have written this post. It is totally heartbreaking so reading replies with interest. Also, am always here if you need anyone to share war stories with x

I’d ensure that she has reasonable friendships externally from school, eg guides or a sports group or an academic group.
I had a lot of contact with my parents friends kids - it meant that I wasn’t so wedded not interested in the social aspect at school. I was less affected by the friendships and behaviours at school because my parents ensured another good social life outside.

Your poor DD. Teenage girls can be cruel. I remember a similar thing when I was a teen, periodically one member of our crew of about 8 girls would be ostracised, then after a about 6 weeks it would be someone else. It was like waiting for your turn to be out of favour. A weird power thing I guess. I eventually broke free from that toxic group when I was 15 and a bit stronger.

Your DD will find her way. She sounds like a kind girl and that goes a long way in this world.

Interestingly, when I was at secondary school friendship problems were so common but once everyone went to 6th form the groups and cattiness seemed to break down a bit more and it was a lot more of a friendly place.

Sorry no real advice but it does seem to be a common experience most girls go through. She just hasn’t found her people yet x