Screen time rage with DS11

[Scoobydoobydoo]

Hello,

Posted this in preteens this morning but reposting here for some advice

DS is 11 and is doing well at school. However, struggles with emotion management and is getting increasingly angry and when he is angry he says a lot of very hurtful things!

He Is allowed screen time of 45 minutes watching mindless Minecraft videos Monday to Thursday
Fridays to Sundays he gets 2 hours of playing Minecraft with friends or on his own.
In addition he gets around 20 minutes of games time on his phone
His school have a policy of no phones during break and lunch for their year but do not police it.
So my DS has been playing the game on his phone during break which we have allowed
This morning he wanted it upped from 20 minutes saying I can claw it back from his evening youtube time.
This does seem an unreasonable request as such. However I do worry this will lead to more phone time in school which the school do not encourage on paper.
I'd rather have mindless youtube in the evening as a down-time after school.

This led to a lot of arguments before him leaving for school. He left with a door bang and unpleasant words and sent me a "I hate you" message when he reached school.

I have previously warned him if he has 3 warnings for behaviour then he loses his tech for a week.
Today is his fourth strike!
I should really stick to my words this time and carry the threat through shoudn't I?

Will be a fun weekend at ours :-(

Further Update
Things went from bad to worse this evening
When he came from school, I calmly said he had busted his 3 strikes.
He could choose a punishment for what he wanted to forgo for the weekend.
Game on phone or mindless youtue or playing micecraft
Maybe my fault for giving a choice here!

He got teary and then shouty and started saying angry hurtful things
I said I was not afraid of him and that he could not bully me.
Things went worse and he stormed to his room and sent me a text "mother*r"
I promptly blocked whatsapp on his phone.
He threw his phone out of the room which I have now taken away.
He has been tearing up his reading books, banging doors, breaking things in his room.

I am at a loss!

Is there anything else going on? Is he happy at school, anything more that might be upsetting him?

To be honest my ds is just 11. I don't say X minutes on this and X minutes on that. We have a rule that any homework must be done before screens/games and it all goes off by 7.30pm to enable wind down time before bed (shower, reading etc before lights out at 8.30/9).

Several evenings a week he has sports, so no screens on those days. He practices guitar 3 or 4 times a week. A bit more screens at weekends but as the weather improves we will be outdoors more

Could you perhaps be a bit less prescriptive re timings if he's done what he needs to do after school? What I also do is give ds a 15min warning when the game needs to come off so he is prepared. I find him much less stroppy this way and tend to get a thumbs up in acknowledgement....

And remember he's 11, there's no way I would be saying "I said I was not afraid of him and that he could not bully me"

And why does he even need to play games on the phone during break....doesn't he have friends to play with at school?

Do you model the same behaviour, you say mindless Minecraft videos but are on MN which is also pretty mindless (no judgement I almost live here)

Does the phone cut out after 20 mins regardless of what he is doing? Is the 2 hour game time a day or for the whole weekend. What do you think about normal tv/film time?

@Valhalla17
He seems ok at school. Teachers say he seems cheerful and he hasn't complained so far.
Seems to have friends whom he plays online with every weekend

This system/timings in fact came after discussion with him as to what he wanted.
I guess at 11 they really don't know what they want!
I did not expect him to do homework /practise music straight after school so wanted him to chill for a bit
Problem is without timers he will never come off screens on his own.
And he seems to jump from PC to phone unless there is a limit set and he cannot go on it anymore.
He also does sports quite a few evenings but he would always want screens straight after school
All homework is caught up in the weekend which I do not like but I ignore for now because he seems to always stay on track with work and is doing well at school

Its the rage that I cannot understand and do not know how to deal with.
Maybe I need to speak to someone to get some help.

@Valhalla17
Timing for the game on the phone is controlled via Family Link Limits.
And he says no one "plays" at break as they all play the online game on their phones.
In the weekend he has 2 hours per day on Minecreaft, 20 minutes on game on phone and also Netflix time in the evenings..so pretty much quite a lot.
The Netflix time is family time so I would really not count it but even then he would push and push to watch one more show

Regarding modelling behaviour, I guess as an adult I could do way better than I want to :-)
Just here out of desperation

Is he year 6 or 7? I would be tempted to speak to school about enforcing the mobile rule. They should be communicating with their peers and playing at break time imo. The language is unacceptable. Have you spoken to him about it when he is calm?

He text you calling you a motherfucker, did I read that right?!

I have an 11 year old and her phone would be in the bin within two minutes of that happening.

OK from further update. He does sports several nights a week, plays an instrument, keeps up with his homework and is doing well at school. He is happy to spend time watching shows as a family. He wants to spend his 'chill' time doing something he enjoys which is also educational (minecraft) and sociable.

I don't agree with phones at break but that isn't something you can police, it is something the school needs to enforce. The reality is if phones are allowed those that can't use them become isolated as no one does anything other than play on a phone (hence why I am so against them being used at break time.)

Sounds hard OP, regardless of the rules and him being upset about enforcement - he shouldn't be lashing out and using that sort of language with you. I agree with the above poster re asking school to actually enforce the no phones rule and collect in phones at the start of the day...giving them back to students at the end of the day/in the last period etc. Phones are surely just for the journey to and from school in case of emergencies

If he doesn't have to hand in work through the week and he's doing OK then I would just let him crack on with the games etc, just give him a turning off time at least an hour before bed. At some point he is going to have midweek homework deadlines but suppose that can be broached when needed.

I would take away his tech for just today, then speak with him later to ask him to apologise and tell him that if he ever uses that language etc with you again he will lose those privileges for a week (or whatever you deem appropriate). Then outline the rules again and say tomorrow is a new day...

Hang in there op

Im gonna sound super strict here, but here goes.
First of all he has way too much screentime.
If this is what he is like at 11 you are gonna have a big few years ahead of you.
He needs to learn that No means no and that limits are actually limits. Thats hard to do now because he has gained the power to push and knows he will get what he wants.
You can enforce the mobile in school first of all by taking it up with the school and secondly insisting that he leaves his phone in the school office from 9am to finish.
Screentime cannot be every day and weekends sounds super excessive.
You dont need to talk to anyone for help you just need to enforce your own rules.
My 14 year old gets dedicated screentime with phone off the rest of the time. Much less than ypur son. My 12 year old has not got a phone- at 13 maybe. Screentime with family is every night watching something we all want so he has learned to co-operate around screen vs family time.
Your kid has way too much control. He gets to make choices when he demonstrates he can observe rules.

I disagree with @ThisisMax. I too have a 14 year old DS. He goes to the gym, plays a sport, goes to Explorers and is doing fine at school. He also goes out with his friends. He also has unlimited screen time, both on the ps4 and his phone. Sometimes he's on it a lot, sometimes not as much as he's doing other things such as those above. He also comes and watches TV with us sometimes. He was limited much more at 11 or 12 but it was more along the lines of no ps4 in the week, he did still watch a fair bit of youtube!
As long as screens don't become all encompassing and he still does other things I think it's fine. They do need to learn how to self regulate themselves.

I also disagree with Max parenting shouldn't be about control.

@Popfan

I disagree with *@ThisisMax*. I too have a 14 year old DS. He goes to the gym, plays a sport, goes to Explorers and is doing fine at school. He also goes out with his friends. He also has unlimited screen time, both on the ps4 and his phone. Sometimes he's on it a lot, sometimes not as much as he's doing other things such as those above. He also comes and watches TV with us sometimes. He was limited much more at 11 or 12 but it was more along the lines of no ps4 in the week, he did still watch a fair bit of youtube! As long as screens don't become all encompassing and he still does other things I think it's fine. They do need to learn how to self regulate themselves.

Thats great for you! However the OP has an issue with a child who cannot regulate himself and interprets rules loosely and therefore needs other solutions.

@Ducksurprise

I also disagree with Max parenting shouldn't be about control.

What should parenting be about?

What I'm trying to say @ThisisMax is maybe to loosen the controls if there are other things in the child's life. Does she know he can't regulate himself as there are all the limits in place. Have you allowed your children the chance to set their own limits? If your strict rules work for your family then great but maybe the OP could consider loosening the limits rather than tightening them as you suggest.

Ok with kids of this age in this day and age I don't think we can really say it's not enough or too much screen time.
They have grown up completely in an era of phones, internet and tech.
We didn't, it was still all up and coming mostly. (Well it's come a long way since our flip phones at the same age & our dial up)
Yes there is less playing, meeting friends, and general 'come home when the lights come on' type situations these days. But it's a new era and this is how they communicate now.

Remember the desire to get home to MSN?

I think this is a battle you can't win, because no one really knows what is enough / too much. PERSONALLY, myself, my 11 year old can have his mobile whenever (policed and checked - still in year 6) but only after his homework/reading/spellings are done on an eve, and showered dressed teeth brushed and so on in the morns.

Weekends, meh, it's a bit free for all to be honest but if we tell him to do something he has to put it down, no distractions, we go out we don't take his phone, ps4 is used on occasions, same for the tablet.

Yes he kicks off when we take it away for bad behaviour, but it just means we don't give it back as fast as we would have. He's learning, slowly.

But is there a right/wrong way? I don't think so tbh.

If your son didn't have a phone at all do you think he would be sitting there in silence? Or do you think he would be reading/writing/crafts/out playing?

A little bit of everything is okay. It's gonna be a long 7 years don't sweat it. But keep that phone away for a week. Don't replace the shit he broke.

Good luck!

@Popfan

What I'm trying to say *@ThisisMax* is maybe to loosen the controls if there are other things in the child's life. Does she know he can't regulate himself as there are all the limits in place. Have you allowed your children the chance to set their own limits? If your strict rules work for your family then great but maybe the OP could consider loosening the limits rather than tightening them as you suggest.

Totally agree @Popfan I do allow my kids to push and go past limits, thats how they learn about consequences and often the best learnings are from these. I do insist on basics tho and that means balance in screentime and mostly polite behaviour especially if discussing or pitching for changes to rules which do change and are flexible. In this case the 11 year old is clearly finding it difficult even though he gets quite a lot of screentime. Screentime is often the most hotly contested area in lots of homes, its free, easily available, engossing and always on. Tricky.

I honestly think you’re being too rigid and controlling and that is what he is pushing back against, plus you’re talking about punishment at the end of a tiring week. Did you expect a brilliant reaction? As long as everything is balanced try not to get too hung up. Is he reading? Doing his homework? Not using phone before bed? Having other hobbies? Getting outdoors? If he is then relax and don’t sweat the small stuff.

@Vodka1

Ok with kids of this age in this day and age I don't think we can really say it's not enough or too much screen time. They have grown up completely in an era of phones, internet and tech. We didn't, it was still all up and coming mostly. (Well it's come a long way since our flip phones at the same age & our dial up) Yes there is less playing, meeting friends, and general 'come home when the lights come on' type situations these days. But it's a new era and this is how they communicate now.

Remember the desire to get home to MSN?

I think this is a battle you can't win, because no one really knows what is enough / too much. PERSONALLY, myself, my 11 year old can have his mobile whenever (policed and checked - still in year 6) but only after his homework/reading/spellings are done on an eve, and showered dressed teeth brushed and so on in the morns.

Weekends, meh, it's a bit free for all to be honest but if we tell him to do something he has to put it down, no distractions, we go out we don't take his phone, ps4 is used on occasions, same for the tablet.

Yes he kicks off when we take it away for bad behaviour, but it just means we don't give it back as fast as we would have. He's learning, slowly.

But is there a right/wrong way? I don't think so tbh.

If your son didn't have a phone at all do you think he would be sitting there in silence? Or do you think he would be reading/writing/crafts/out playing?

A little bit of everything is okay. It's gonna be a long 7 years don't sweat it. But keep that phone away for a week. Don't replace the shit he broke.

Good luck!

@Vodka1 This sounds like a good balance, great points and your kid gets screentime as a nice consequence of doing homework etc. Sounds great to me. Also has to put it down when asked.

Thanks to everyone who replied!
I did realise when I posted that I would get replies at both ends of the spectrum - those that say I am too controlling and those that say I need to be firm and strict.
I also knew each family and child is different and there is no single solution.
Yet I posted! More to vent I suppose as I sat and listened to my house being destroyed.

To those that said I am too controlling - he is 11 years old and not 14.
In many aspects he is still very childish (though his profanity today suggests otherwise)
I did not punish him without warning. He has been aware he is running out of favours and yet pushed and pushed. Can you believe we have had 3 such behaviours recently for me to pull the trigger today?
Though today's behaviour has been the worse.
And I absolutely do not insist on school work or practise to be done straight after school. I believe they have a hard day and need time to unwind.
If I enforced the rule of homework to be done, practise to be finished first it would leave no time for screens as he has to leave for his clubs.
If I allowed screen time after clubs, that becomes too close to bed time and that's another saga. This also has the danger that he would drop clubs just to do homework and then get screens which I certainly do not want to happen.

To those that replied saying I need to be strict - I kind of agree. I need to put my big girl pants on and be the mum.
I need to find a way to get him to understand boundaries and consequences. For too long, I have not carried through with threats for fear of this behaviour.
But today I realise I have to be consistent with granting consequences.
He has thrashed his room this evening, torn his book series, threw things on the wall etc.
He came to my room just a while ago and said sorry. I hope it was heartfelt or maybe it was a peace offering to see if he could get me to give him access to the PC tomorrow!

I have written to the school. He is in y7
They certainly won't have the bandwidth to take all the phones away and hand them back in the evening but they can enforce the "no phones at break" atleast from time to time.
I agree with those that mentioned social isolation for kids who do not have a phone. It is certainly the case in his class.
He walks to school so does not need it for the journey.
I intend to not hand back anything for the weekend.

With everything happening around in the world, it seems very petty to moan about such a thing.
However, thanks again to everyone for their perspective.
Good night!

@Scoobydoobydoo just coming at this from another angle, you need to sit him down for a talk about it is fine to be angry but not fine to express it the way he did with verbal abuse and physical destruction.

I have also sat my eldest down when he was mouthing off to me, once it was all calm, and told him nobody speaks to me like that and if this was a boyfriend speaking to me like that he would be out the door. My Dh also told him straight that no one speaks to his wife in that disrespectful tone or use those words. They need to learn to handle it otherwise they are prone to let those words slip out at school at a teacher which is a line you can use.