Uniform Issues

[lollipopsandrainbows]

Where do I stand if DD refuses to wear trousers to school? For background, she is in Y9 and has always worn a skirt. Clearly from reading her planner she has taken to rolling up the skirt, and I've now received a letter saying she must wear trousers from now on.

I contacted the school to say this was the first I had heard of any issues. 3 notices in her planner relate to 2021, nothing so far this year. No detentions, no isolations, no sanctions. School have said it's their decision, she has broken the rules and that is that. She's gone to school today in her skirt, they've placed her in isolation and are waiting for me to collect her.

When I spoke to DD about the skirt rolling she had a full emotional breakdown. Basically despite the skirt being 22" wide, it's too big. She was measured in September and it's the smallest skirt the school do, but it's clear she's lost weight (7lb) and it now they no longer fit. DD has been bullied since Y8 and she confessed she's not eating at school as the particular girl would make comments about the food making her fatter than she already is...despite her being incredibly slim. My heart broke for her. I know she's eating at home as she clears my fridge every few days, but it saddens me that she's not at school. So, the skirts are too big on the waist, she was rolling it to keep it up. I've now tucked the skirts and darted them, and they are the correct length.

School aren't budging though. They've said everyday I send her in a skirt, they will keep sending her home. DD says only the "bad" kids wear trousers and she feels it makes her even more of a target. I'm all for school rules and I'm usually supportive of any sanctions, but I'm struggling with this one. I've told school I'll collect her at the end of school as planned, DD is more than happy in isolation as it keeps her from the bullies. But we can't do this everyday. Would everyone just relent and make her wear trousers? Clearly she has broken the rules so I'm on the fence which way to go. Please be kind.

I'm glad to read that. Has her weight remained stable?

I would be really pushing back at the school as it appears that wearing trousers is going to cause her significant emotional distress

@Liveforyourself thank you. I am very supportive of DD and she knows I'm on top of the school regarding the bullying. They kept saying they were following the policy, and that permanently excluding the children involved was incredibly difficult, so I went in there with my highlighter to show where the policy wasn't being followed. I've never raised well-being/safeguarding though or asked to see a governor, so that might be my next step. They do exclude the girls involved or put them in isolation, but it's short term and makes little difference. DD breathes out for a week and then it all starts again. So part of me feels they're now trying to push DD out, to try solve the problem that way. But they also know our local secondary is full, so I don't know where they expect her to go? I have altered all her skirts and she's gone in one today but they've put her in isolation as she's been told she must wear trousers. I've refused to collect her as she needs to be in school, not at home learning nothing.

Change her school. Tell this school she's on waiting list for new school. Until then they can set her work to do at home, yup this can be done. Or they can keep her in internal exclusion. Don't collect her. They won't permanently exclude her if she is about to leave anyway. Would she want to move tho?

@MrsPsmalls no she doesn't want to go as the alternative doesn't do the GSCE options she has chosen. Plus albeit small, she does have a good friendship group here so it would be starting again.

@lollipopsandrainbows it's classic school behaviour to brush their shortcomings under the carpet. Don't let this go op.
Make a complaint, by using thier complaints procedure. Don't leave anything out. Use exactly their format. School will have to investigate again. Highlight their flaws word to word and have their school policy statement s to back up your concerns.

Since dd didn't mention this to you. Start by apologising and asking for another chance so you can sort out dds skirt altering.

Make formal complaint and make sure you use the word complaint not concern as they are viewed differently by school s.

Lastly good luck to you as it's hard to see your child suffer.

You need to be persistent with the school.

Ask them what does it say about their school culture and how they are not dealing with the bullies that DD would rather sit in isolation than classes because it protects her from them?

Time to get your highlighter out again and show how they have not followed their policies yet again.

Your poor DD

Thank you everyone. After emailing the school requesting a meeting with the Head (previously gone via the deputy) a whole raft of negative behaviour points have been added on. These date back a number of months, and certainly wasn't there before today. They include swearing, defiance, answering back and truancy. DD strongly denies any swearing and truancy, and surely if she had been awol I would have been informed? Some relate to months ago so DD has no recollection to some of them although does admit she has refused to roll down her skirt as if she did, it would have just fallen down. So now she just looks like a bad kid playing up at school, which isn't anything like the child I have at home. I've requested a meeting with the head and a governor for transparency and I'm waiting for a reply.

Strange. I hope it gets resolved one way or another as she can't stay in isolation indefinitely and doesn't want to move school.

The fact she wants to be in isolation away from the bullies is very telling - could it be why she has been misbehaving ( if indeed she has ??)

@SecretDoor I believe she's been answering back/being defiant regarding the skirt. But I find the swearing and truancy hard to believe. If she's been truanting then I want to know why I wasn't informed. She's more than happy to stay in isolation though, rather than relent to the trousers. At break time they go to some "safe" area and her friends are allowed in there too, so she still gets that social contact and at lunch she's allowed one friend in. So unless she relents, she will be placed in isolation or I'll be asked to collect her for the foreseeable...and I won't be collecting her.

How tall is she? 22" waist is tiny (I handle preloved uniform at our secondary) -- esp. for yr9.

I am absolutely appalled by the school’s policy to mark out the girls they are punishing for bad behaviour by making them wear trousers. That, to me, sounds like a long term, ongoing punishment, which cannot be acceptable behaviour policy.

It is also deeply sexist, because only girls will be punished by being forced to wear trousers - it is fair to assume that the ‘bad’ boys are not forced to wear skirts!

It is like The Scarlet Letter, by Nathaniel Hawthorne, where Heater conceives a child out of wedlock, refuses to name the father, and has to wear a scarlet letter A as punishment and shame.

@lljkk she was bang on 5ft when I took her to the GP around Christmas time. She must be smaller than 22" as I've had to take it in but no tape measure to hand. That's the smallest skirt they do at the uniform shop which would be the correct length.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius it's punishment for rolling up the skirt, which I've now established she has been doing and has also been refusing to roll it down as it would have just fallen down. I'm just saddened that school haven't brought this to my attention, or indeed my daughter. We've gone from no sanctions being placed, to straight to trousers. If I'd have known, this could easily have been prevented. She's not a bad kid (or at least I'm hopeful she isn't), so the rolling up of the skirt hasn't been done for fashion purposes. And now I've raised it, suddenly there are bad behaviour points on her record which weren't there this morning. So I know now if I push back, they will just say she's been defiant, hasn't stuck to the rules etc, and then I'll be stuck as she's refusing to wear trousers and will happily sit in isolation.

I think I would raise why have her records not been kept up to date and why have these all been added retrospectively - again not following school policy. Had you known this would have been resolved after the first incident.

@lollipopsandrainbows listen to everything calmly when they bring out all the list of DD's shortcoming. Then ask them if the child has gone awol why haven't they bothered to inform you as logically they should be concerned. Bring them back to skirt issue .
Politely ask them to keep you updated about any issues at school so you can be on top of things and any misunderstandings on their part can be sorted immediately & effectively by you.

Highlight that any concerns they have should be brought up as soon as possible and not retrospectively as then you don't get to discuss the issue at hand . Highlight the effect this has on your dd. Let them know she feels targetted and this gives bullies another chance to make up tales about her and bully her . It's unfair that the kids bullying her get a slap on the wrist while your dd has to go through isolation. Request them to loop you in on all updates.

Don't be too hopefully on governor being present as normally the procedure to complaint to the governor comes in after you have failed to resolve the issue with the headteacher. But you can ask them to have a staff present to take notes and ask for a copy immediately after (provided it is written in black and white in their school policy) Regardless of that take a notepad with you and write down basic points covered by you and the head immediately after the meeting.

Lastly stay strong and ask your dd not to give in to unnecessary pressure and apologize to only where she has gone wrong. If you are not satisfied ask for follow up meetings.

@lollipopsandrainbows

Where do I stand if DD refuses to wear trousers to school? For background, she is in Y9 and has always worn a skirt. Clearly from reading her planner she has taken to rolling up the skirt, and I've now received a letter saying she must wear trousers from now on.

I contacted the school to say this was the first I had heard of any issues. 3 notices in her planner relate to 2021, nothing so far this year. No detentions, no isolations, no sanctions. School have said it's their decision, she has broken the rules and that is that. She's gone to school today in her skirt, they've placed her in isolation and are waiting for me to collect her.

When I spoke to DD about the skirt rolling she had a full emotional breakdown. Basically despite the skirt being 22" wide, it's too big. She was measured in September and it's the smallest skirt the school do, but it's clear she's lost weight (7lb) and it now they no longer fit. DD has been bullied since Y8 and she confessed she's not eating at school as the particular girl would make comments about the food making her fatter than she already is...despite her being incredibly slim. My heart broke for her. I know she's eating at home as she clears my fridge every few days, but it saddens me that she's not at school. So, the skirts are too big on the waist, she was rolling it to keep it up. I've now tucked the skirts and darted them, and they are the correct length.

School aren't budging though. They've said everyday I send her in a skirt, they will keep sending her home. DD says only the "bad" kids wear trousers and she feels it makes her even more of a target. I'm all for school rules and I'm usually supportive of any sanctions, but I'm struggling with this one. I've told school I'll collect her at the end of school as planned, DD is more than happy in isolation as it keeps her from the bullies. But we can't do this everyday. Would everyone just relent and make her wear trousers? Clearly she has broken the rules so I'm on the fence which way to go. Please be kind.

Did the 3 notes in her planner about the skirt happen in the Autumn term of this school year? I'm wondering if they have a 4 strikes and you're out rule. Anyway, I hope you get some resolution with the Head

As it looks as if the school may be "encouraging" you to move your Dd
I would self-report this thread and ask if MNHQ can move it to Education and amend the name so it reflects you are looking for help about a school disiplinary re uniform.
___

She is 13/14?

On the food if she had reduced her activity yet maintained her input she should remain the same or gain. So unless she is on a growing spurt or sick imo the reason for the weight loss logically is the input.
Worry may have decreased her appetite or she lied to the doctors.

Agree various meal days. She can eat the breakfast as dinner or dinner as breakfast but the choices result in a healthy balanced combination.
Dont use the word diet as its used to describe reduction of body fat)
She gets up 1/2 hr earlier and she preps and eats something.
Lunch is from home. An advantage is the bully has to physically approach to observe her lunch box and comment. But more important your Dd is in charge of organising healthy food which she likes.

On the school

I would go in with the attitude there may be at least 2 meetings
First is a fact finding mission school present their case and proposed resolutions. You highlight your concerns and firm up what the school can do to resolve them.
You both agree on common outcomes or you need to discuss the proposal with Dd and get back to them

I would continue to leave Dd with the school and make it clear that moving her to a new school is not an option. Expeling her for not wearing a uniform (low level self-sabotage/self-harm?) is a non-runner if they wont expel the bullies for actively harming your Dd.

Points covered would include

Ask how the school will be managing her ongoing education needs while this is being resolved.
Dd sees the trouser rule as a shaming method which may result in outright school refusal. If you force the issue how are the school going to manage that scenario. (The school will have a policy on that process too)

Your stance has always been there are rules, everybody follows the rules and the school leads by example. You applied that principle to your older child expected the school to apply this to the bullies and will teach DD the same.
The uniform policy has a specific sequence of events so the school are currently acting outside the policy, what is that teaching your DD?

Bear with me on this one, if trousers, as a punishment, applies across the breach of school policy its indirect disability discrimination. Some children dont want to follow the rules. However a large group of those who breach multiple rules will have underlying learning and behaviour issues and cant follow the rules. Trousers become a "spot the child with additional needs" uniform.

If they bring in prior incidents to justify the skipped steps the punishment is not about rolling up the skirt but forcing your DD to be easily identifiable as a "problem/additional needs" girl.

Your DD has been bullied, she lost weight, she possibility has the start of an eating disorder, so her uniform no longer fits she rolled it up to keep it on. She should have said this to you but is this part if the mental distress?
You have fixed one element by fixing her skirt.
The school fix another by following the rules.

You need to have a serious discussion with your Dd on your punishments if she breaks the rule again. Outline these to prove you support the school applying the rules.

Take each of the other incident independant of the current uniform
When did it happen
Who was involved
What exactly is the allegation
Where is the policy detailing consequences
Why was the policy not applied
I would point out that you can not work with the school if the school fail to inform you. On these 'woulda coulda shoulda' but was not managed by the school at the time it was happening. Is the punishment for any a special uniform?

How did the prior incidents fit into the overall pattern of bullying and you seeking support for her?
I am assuming you asked the school to contact you as issues arise, why did the failure to communicate happen and how do "we fix it".

If DD was not in class and being bullied how did the school establish that she was safely "truancing" not on the way to A&E after a assault?

You adapt to what ever point is being raised.

@PinkForgetMeNot yes, they were in September and October, nothing so far this year although the negative behaviour points added retrospectively yesterday give 3 occasions this year.

@SolasAnla your post is very helpful, thank you. I have entered into the formal complaints procedure with the school which should trigger a meeting with the head, so I will note some of your points to take with me.

Regarding punishments, if you were to ask my DD she would say I'm a strict parent. Any bad behaviour results in a consequence, although these are rare as she's generally well behaved.

I called the GP this morning regarding the weight loss and she will be seen by a nurse. They put her last weight loss down to her very heavy periods which resulted in her going on the pill, but she is off that now. I agree her diet isn't balanced, but I don't believe she has an eating disorder as she's a very good eater generally, she just doesn't like to eat at school. Last night for example was a roast dinner, with lots of veg. Two hours later she was hungry so it was super noodles and then later a toastie. So she bulks on an evening due to not eating at school. On a weekend it's very much breakfast, lunch and tea.

I'd like to thank everyone for being kind and helpful on this post. I've lots of notes I can take into my meeting. In the meantime, my DD is happily sat in isolation where she is happy to eat her lunch as she gets no judgement - I can see on her account she's had wedges with cheese which they deliver to isolation at 12. Silver linings and all that...