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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

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Original poster

I don't think so but was this rape??

46 replies

ManicMonday007 · 07/02/2022 19:53

Please help.

My 15 y.o dd was with (what I thought was a lovely) lad for 18 months ish, since 14, they were friends at first, he kept asking her out but she said no as she didn't like him in that way. Anyway after a while she started to like him as more than a friend and so when he asked her out again she said they could give it a go but she didn't want to ruin their friendship.

Fast forward 6 weeks and he ends it out if the blue, she was devasated. I then find out she had slept with him twice but only in the last 2 weeks, so he slept with her twice then ended it, they were both virigns.

Within a week he was with another girl, my dd had moved on 2 months later and when he realised that he tried to worm his way back. She told him where to go.

She initially told me she didn't regret losing it to him, and they used a condom, she said he didn't put pressure on her but she was upset about the way it ended.

This happened 6 months ago. I was then chatting to her about her new bf this weekend and she started talking about losing it, saying she was asleep and he had woken her up and basically had sex with her, I said did you say no, she said no I didn't, I said did you feel forced she said I just didn't really know what was going on.

I felt sick, I didn't know how to react, what do I do now? Is this some form of rape or not? Do I do anything or leave it? I feel so sad for her and I don't know what his game is or was.

OP posts:

QuinkWashable · 08/02/2022 15:42

It's not a grey area at all, it was rape, and he did already have form for breaking her boundaries.

What to do about it is the difficult thing - you simply won't get anywhere with the police, so you need to concentrate on her, like others have said, would she consider therapy to explore it all?

Original poster

ManicMonday007 · 09/02/2022 11:07

Thank you for all your replies. My heart is broken right now.

I am going to sit down with her and say i need to ask her more info, an awkward conversation with mum but I didn't know how to react at weekend. I'm going to ask her if she wants to take this further as she didn't actually consent but I'm wary of using the R word.

I genuinely thought he was a lovely lad and now I seriously want to kill him!

PS the new bf is 15 and a virgin, she said she is taking it slow and he knows about what happened to her.

OP posts:

Blanketpolicy · 10/02/2022 23:43

She initially told me she didn't regret losing it to him, and they used a condom, she said he didn't put pressure on her

she started talking about losing it, saying she was asleep and he had woken her up and basically had sex with her, I said did you say no, she said no I didn't, I said did you feel forced she said I just didn't really know what was going on.*

Only these two parts of your OP matter. The rest is standard teen relationships.

Talk to her and listen, but careful not to put words into her mouth by asking leading questions, it may be regret and changing how she viewed it or it may be something wasn't right.

If it is regret it is difficult to get over that when it was your first time and you are so emotionally immature, but let her know it is an ok emotion and to use it to learn from.

If she thinks it was something more sinister talk it though and maybe suggest she speaks to rape crisis in confidence to work through what happened and what options she has if she doesnt want to go through the details with her mum.

If they are both 15 there is no benefit to anyone taking about under age statutory rape.

Santaslittlemelter · 10/02/2022 23:53

He assaulted her while she was asleep. It was rape. I also don’t think I’d be so ok with my 15 yr old having a few different partners and sleeping over with them. She’s too young for this shit.

dane8 · 10/02/2022 23:54

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

BitcherOfBlakiven · 11/02/2022 06:49

@dane8

What you doing letting her sleep with lads at age 16!with your consent ? Where is she spending the night in bad with a lad ?

16 is the legal age sex.

OPs daughter has been RAPED.

STFU.

ThirdElephant · 11/02/2022 07:23

I'd say it's rape, OP. Lack of resistance is not the same as consent. Especially given that they'd never had sex before. Sounds like she woke up to a sexual assault and then froze.

Original poster

ManicMonday007 · 11/02/2022 08:21

@Blanketpolicy
Thank you. You have hit the nail on the head, I can't work put whether it is regret or something sinister. I tried to talk about it last night and she just went very quiet and said I don't want to talk about it, just leave it. Any ideas on where to go from here? If I bring it up again I don't think she will discuss, I was thinking of texting her but not sure what to say without leasing her, which I obviously don't want to do.

He was 16 and she was 15.

For the judgemental people who have commented, I don't allow her to stay over with boys, he was round in the daytime and they were watching a film when she fell asleep. I was out but trusted the 2 of them, I had known him a while and he had spent a lot of time with us as a family. I had no reason not to trust him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

OP posts:

ThirdElephant · 11/02/2022 08:24

I'd leave it, OP. She may need time to process and many rape survivors say that they actively chose not to prosecute because the process is so horrendous for the victim. Just let her know that if she ever wants to talk about it, you're there for her, and maybe ask her to think about if she'd like to speak to someone professionally about it, like a counsellor.

Original poster

ManicMonday007 · 11/02/2022 08:30

Thank you. Thanks what I thought just one text saying I'm here if she ever wants to talk and I can also get someone else to talk to her if she wants and then leave it.

Oh yes I imagine the whole process is so damaging in itself.

What I do hate the thought of tho if he did do that he just thinks he has got away with it!!

OP posts:

SarahDippity · 11/02/2022 08:40

HE didn’t seek or establish consent. HE is the problem here. Those talking about grey areas and difficult to prove are looking at this the wrong way round. Your poor daughter, to have such negative experiences at a young age. In time, would you perhaps suggest she chat us a councillor?

Supersimkin2 · 11/02/2022 08:42

Of course it’s rape. How would he feel if he woke up with a man having sex with him?

Branleuse · 11/02/2022 08:42

Id be furious with the boy, but please dont make it a bigger deal than she wants it to be before shes ready

Lollypop701 · 11/02/2022 08:58

My son was taught cup of tea consent, which sounds stupid but is actually quite a good basic explanation. If someone doesn’t want a cup of tea you can’t force them. You wouldn’t keep offering a cup of tea if someone said no , if someone is asleep they don’t want a cup of tea because they are asleep. In this case your daughter was half asleep when this boy gave her no choice but drink tea. It was non consensual and he’s a rapist. Whether a court of law would convict is irrelevant because let’s be honest rape conviction are abysmal. I wouldn’t mention rape to your daughter, but would talk if she wants, make sure she understands that however she feels is fine and mostly she is in no way to blame. I feel for you both op, a truly horrible thing to deal with

formalineadeline · 11/02/2022 09:02

Maybe you should speak to Rape Crisis yourself. They know what they are talking about, can resolve your misconceptions, and signpost you to appropriate support for your daughter.

It sounds like you are very unclear on what consent is - it's not the absence of a no or the absence of fighting someone off, it's the presence of a freely given yes by someone with the capacity to consent (i.e. conscious).

Whilst not malicious, your reaction to her disclosure could have caused a lot of harm - you basically impressed rape myths upon her and told her that her rape was fine and her fault for not saying no/fighting.

I don't think you should be pushing her to talk to you again when you are so unclear yourself on what rape is and what support is available. It's inappropriate and you risk causing long-term harm if you push at this again from your foggy position.

You're not the right person to be driving these conversations, you should be informing yourself and making professional support available if/when she is ready. (By which I don't mean police - that's not support. But Rape Crisis, SARC, trauma care etc).

I'm not your daughter telling you she was raped and being met with "nah, that's not real rape and if it was it was your fault for not saying no/fighting" and I was upset to read that. You basically told her any man can do anything he wants to her unless she manages to get in an advance 'no' and fight him.

If she had been mugged, would you have asked her if she said 'no'? Would you have asked if she fought and said if not that it wasn't really a mugging?

Or would you have said it should never have happened to her and she did the right thing not to fight back as it meant she survived?

Your next conversation should start with an apology.

Looneytune253 · 11/02/2022 09:07

Am I missing something? It says he woke her up and then had sex? Not that he woke her up having sex? This is 2 entirely different things and a lot of posters are claiming rape? Even tho the young girl said there was no pressure and no regrets (before he ended it).

By the way OP it's great that she's so open with you and that you can chat like this. Please just reassure her that it's ok and it's ok to regret but also try not to make her think anything bad has happened as that's what might make her upset. (This is of course only unless she makes any other confessions that change things)

formalineadeline · 11/02/2022 09:09

As in, if your last conversation was you telling her she wasn't raped, it was her fault, and you don't believe here - then don't bloody walk away and "leave it" without correcting yourself.

You need to apologise and correct yourself.

Not just drop it with her believing this is all her fault and she can't confide in you because you'll blame her. Please don't leave it like that, that makes what you said initially even worse - why would she ever feel ready to talk when she knows you will blame her? Her own mum reacted like that so why wouldn't everyone else?

Don't push her to talk about it again - done by the wrong person that can cause trauma to get worse - but do correct your initial response.

TabithaTittlemouse · 11/02/2022 09:11

I’m shocked by some of the answers. She didn’t consent to having sex. She was asleep! She was also 15.

I would call the nspcc for advice before talking any more about it.

formalineadeline · 11/02/2022 09:13

@Looneytune253

"she said I just didn't really know what was going on"

That's not consent, mate. It's horrifying that you think it is.

As is suggesting she should be fed the line that this is her "regretting" things. Are you trying to see how many rape myths you can cram into one post?

It is normal after trauma for someone to initially shut down and pretend it's fine - it's a survival mechanism that we all have. You can only face what happened and start to name what happened once you feel safe again. That can take days, weeks, months or years.

Howshouldibehave · 11/02/2022 09:16

Goodness-poor girl.

Where were they sleeping (as in asleep) together? Were they asleep at his house/yours overnight? Like a sleepover?

I would say no to a boyfriend/girls fiend sleepover at that age. I don’t think I would want my 15 year old to be ‘sleeping’ with a boyfriend below the age of consent.

I know loads of kids will find places to have sex somewhere underage-but then sleeping together in the same bed, seems to put her in a vulnerable position.

SoItWas · 11/02/2022 09:28

This sounds like rape. I've had a few ex's that did this shit, one would wake me, then be in me before I knew wtf was going on and was still groggy.

Another was worse again, I'd wake up and he'd have started touching me/having sex with me, without being bothered if I was awake/consented. He stopped for a long time, then at one point I was between contraceptive implants, and I wanted to give my body a break from hormones, so I was being extra careful with condoms. He forgot, and I woke up to him having unprotected sex with me (I still find it hard to even think "I woke up to him raping me", it's like my brain doesn't want to go there). I had a panic wondering how many times he'd had unprotected sex with me, without my knowledge, and was I pregnant.

Is your dd absolutely sure he hasn't done similar when she's been asleep next to him? He didn't pull out when she started to wake up, only to make a show of putting a condom on?

I'm so sorry this happened to your dd

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