Teen stealing online

[TrickyTeens75]

My 17 year old son is stealing.

He is ordering items online, informing the company that they have not arrived and getting a refund while also keeping the items. He is using different names, and also our neighbours address sometimes.

He is highly secretive with his phone which made me suspicious (along with the expensive items, and gas-lighting arguments in return to my queries). He recently changed passwords on his phone and laptop to prevent anyone else accessing.

What do I do? I confronted him after the first lot and before I realised what he was doing – at that point I thought it was just excessive spending - he refused to return anything and said he was entitled to spend his money on whatever he likes (yes true, but hard to swallow when he can easily see how hard I work to provide them with nice-yet-not-designer / high end items they need, gave him a good chunk of cash at Christmas towards a laptop etc).

He has a part-time job, doesn’t want for anything, this is just for kicks.

I am so upset that he is doing this, and also need to get the approach right as he will just deflect and deny.

It's fraud so if you don't step in, he will get a visit from the police eventually, I would have thought. Or at least not be able to order things online anymore.

If you do want to step in and he is being so evasive, I would take a fairly blunt approach of 'look, it is very clear you are obtaining goods fraudulently because (xyz evidence). This will impact on the whole household when you're found out, and you will be found out. Until it stops, I'm going to turn off the WiFi and your phone data so that I'm not playing a part in facilitating your illegal activities'
Plus maybe 'if you ever want to talk about what's going on for you, I'm around - I just don't want you to behave this way as it impacts negatively on you, your family and your neighbours'

@SuperLoudPoppingAction
Thank you so much for your quick and very practical reply. You dont know how much I appreciate it.
I'd normally be the one suggesting similar but cant see the wood for the trees.
I must add, this is very recent and not something I've been ignoring for ages.
I'll follow your suggestion. There's nothing he can argue with there. It's factual.

Is he at home when his parcels arrive? If he's out and you are there, could you refuse them? Maybe tell the neighbours not to accept parcels for any of you either...

@TheOccupier yes I can definitely do that.

What about the items he has already acquired? Some have been used, some still have tags and can be returned.

Can anyone suggest anything for the return of the used items? Is it possible to ask to reverse the refunds?

I'm not sure how you can return the goods, especially if you don't know the names abs addresses he's using.

I sell online and this kind of shitty behaviour is why everything is sent recorded delivery. Every crime has victims and someone, somewhere, may have lost their job because of his thievery. Has that crossed his mind?

@HaroldMeeker
Frankly I doubt it has. I am hugely sorry for any time this has happened to you.
I get irritated when simple cheaper 2nd class posting isn't an option - I understand why now.
I know one company and 2 names (he is too stupid to get rid of the packaging properly). Maybe I can repackage with the original address label inside?
If I cant get them back to the shop, they will go to our food bank which has an attached clothing bank.

Kids are so arrogant aren’t they? Do you pay his phone bill? Take his phone. Did you buy the laptop? Take that too. Lock it in the boot of your car or leave it with a friend. It won’t stop him, but he will know you’re serious. Depending on how close to the legal age of responsibility he is (I’m in Aus, it’s different here, and for different crimes too.) I would consider speaking to a friendly police officer to maybe come and” have a chat”. It is actually fair to say (unfair in reality, though…) that people who are imprisoned for fraud frequently get longer sentences than those imprisoned for violent crimes or rape.

Sorry, distracted by my own teenagers…. Meanwhile, parenting is fucking hard and you are a great mum for TRYING to teach your son that there are consequences for his behaviour. I hate the fluffy, “He’s only a kid” approach I so often read on here because it’s just lazy parenting disguised as indulgence or “unconditional acceptance.” Bleurgh… it’s raising psychopaths. You should be proud of yourself for going against that grain. 💪

What is he doing with the money. This is quite sophisticated. Is he involved with drugs? I sound like my own father, sorry. His son was gambling - years ago - and made and lost a lot of money.

@Trickyteens75 I too sometimes get frustrated about postage costs, but as a seller I have to protect myself from behaviour like this, and of course, accidental breakages and lost items. It must be very upsetting seeing a child you've raised exhibit such selfish behaviour. Maybe he needs to lose some of his own precious belongings? Sell his laptop and phone AND the items he's obtained by deceit if you can't return them, and donate every penny to a charity. He should not be allowed to enjoy the items he's stolen, nor continue. Unless of course he wants a criminal record and some time behind bars. Well done to you for tackling this, you must be heartbroken.

He will get the address blacklisted with lots of online companies if he carries on. My company have had issues with return boxes coming in, a refund being issued and when the boxes are properly checked it’s something else in the box. We are changing our processes to stop this, blacklisting the addresses and then do involve solicitors and go to court for the ones we can.

Take away the phone. Prevent all access to internet. Stop giving him money or access to a credit card. Inform all neighbours to refuse delivery of goods so they can stop enabling his crime and risking potential involvement when he gets caught. Keep a list of every company he orders from, contact their fraud department and block all future orders .

Shame him in front of his friends. Warn his employer not to accept deliveries for him at their address, and why.

Thank you for the continued suggestions and supportive comments too. I do actually feel heartbroken and cannot believe that having been brought up in an honest hardworking environment he is doing this. I feel less of an idiot for sitting sobbing in the car on several occasions since I discovered this. And much clearer too.
I need to time it right to extract his phone - like a man having an affair, he never leaves it alone and he is bigger and stronger than me so simply removing is harder!

It’s not your fault in anyway @TrickyTeens75, remember that a lot of teens go through the faze or pushing boundaries and attempt shop lifted for example. Mainly for the buzz it gives them rather then needing what they have stolen. This is just a new technology based way of getting that buzz. Hopefully, he will very quickly grow out of it.

Do you pay for the phone, or are you in charge of the contract? If so, just cancel it. If he wants a phone, he can fund it himself from his job, can't he? In fact, he can fund his whole life beyond school if he's got a job. Charge him board and lodgings (minimum 25% of his earnings). That covers the roof above his head and basic food. Anything else, outwith school requirements, needs to be bought by hum. 100% agree with telling daily, friends, neighbours and his work not to accept parcels for him, and why. Shame is something we're told is unacceptable now, and in many cases I fully agree, but shame for being a thief without mitigating circumstances is, imo, an experience he needs to learn from.

Daily should read " family". Darn autocucumber.

If you pay for his phone I'd cancel the contract. Change the wifi password too.

I don’t know about removing his phone, I mean he is 17.

Changing the Wi-Fi password and setting parental limits on sites might work?

This is awful, what a horrible situation for you. There are actually communities online who tell people how to do this, which online shops don’t question refunds etc. It’s every bit as bad as walking into a shop and stealing.

OP would it be possible for you to contact customer service at the companies involved and just tell them to suspend his accounts, they might be able to tell you how to return things as well. I suppose you have to consider whether doing that might drive him into even more dodgy ways of getting stuff but it’s a thought.

Print out the sentencing guideline for fraud and leave somewhere he cannot miss them.

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/fraud/

He might well get a prison sentence if/when caught since his actions will easily be traceable online so there will be no doubt about the evidence.

When you know he has seen the guidelines then talk to him about it. If fear of prison does not stop him, then I do not know what will.

If he regularly buys from the same site eg Amazon then sooner or later he is highly likely to be caught.

What are his plans for the future?

Unis will want to know about any criminal convictions, as will any future employer.

There are some careers that will be automatically out of bounds with a conviction, but it will make getting any job harder.

Maybe a discussion along those lines might help?

Yes speak to the police and report him but ask that they conceal that you're the source. He probably thinks this is a victimless crime but of course it isn't when some poor warehouse operative or driver gets the blame when things go missing

After a truly awful couple of days he broke down last night and talked to me about everything. He has given me all order sheets and together we have put together return parcels for everything unused.
Phone password has been set to the old one I know.
Laptop and all stolen items are away from the house.
I've read all online banking transactions.
I've informed neighbours and friends parents.
Pocket money has stopped.
I started with a print out of the sentencing guidelines. Incredibly useful, thank you @Redburnett
I'm separated from his father, but ExH sat with me and backed up everything I was saying.
Still not sure what to do with orders where some items were used and some not. Although he deserves to be landed in it, can I do that? Part orders seems risky. Any thoughts?
I do agree it's not my problem, but still, he is my son.
Only time will tell, but after 2 days of minimising, arguing and belittling me he was absolutely beside himself, extending beyond this in to his wider life and behaviour.