defiant teen!

[Tiredpanda]

Any tips on coping with a defiant teen?

Just turned 14. Does'nt listen to rules at home, constantly arguing and pushing boundaries. Verbally rude.

Rules at home: no food upstairs, no phones at dinner time, monday to thursday screens off at 9pm but no restrictions at weekends.
He gets to play on the games console up to 5pm during schooldays but has to get off at 5 and do homework, pack bags, shower, dinner before going back on between 7 to 9.

He is bright but has always needed a push and incentives at home to revise for tests or attempt the challenge questions in homework or do a bit extra, or else will do the minimum. Trying to prepare him to be more independant in his homework and leave him to do it but he ends up watching youtube inbetween work, using a calculator when he shouldn't or looking up answers. Recent maths assessment scored 13 out of 37! usually does a lot better than that.

So how do i help him be more motivated? he's obsessed with his phone, computer, anything with a screen on it! Taking it away makes no difference as he then threatens to go to friends houses to play instead.

So you introduced a consequence of taking away the screen and they decided that:

''Taking it away makes no difference as he then threatens to go to friends houses to play instead'

So what did you say or do about that?

@Marvellousflowers

So you introduced a consequence of taking away the screen and they decided that:

''Taking it away makes no difference as he then threatens to go to friends houses to play instead'

So what did you say or do about that?

Thank you for replying. I said he wouldn't be allowed to go. His father then stepped in too which helped. He hasn't actually arranged to go to a friends house during the days he is banned

@tiredpanda OK. So I think you are being inconsistent in reward & consequence.

I dropped a few notes below, its just my view but the basics are ' here is how we run our house, you get the freedom to do x in return for y. If you refuse to do y you dont get x in varying amounts but I will always impose the removal of x every time.

Just turned 14. Does'nt listen to rules at home, constantly arguing and pushing boundaries. Verbally rude. This is normal stuff and we can only encourage them to express their disatisfaction politely with the objective of being heard, negotiating or making a deal, verbal rudeness is a no no in my house but I am happy to hear polite counter argument

Rules at home: no food upstairs, no phones at dinner time, monday to thursday screens off at 9pm but no restrictions at weekends.
I think there are too much screens, the time needs to be shorter so the value is higher, you give free range at weekends which means he is going to push back during the week - screens at weekends are reduced too that way the consequence of losing it is higher

He gets to play on the games console up to 5pm during schooldays but has to get off at 5 and do homework, pack bags, shower, dinner before going back on between 7 to 9. This needs to be reversed - WHEN you do x, y. z then the outcome is screen time for 45 minutes, you are asking him to leave the screen to do drudge stuff. Screen is a reward otherwise whats the motivation? ( I do a lot of dog training and this is classic: use a crappy treat that the dog wont want and expect them to work for it, high value treat always)*

He is bright but has always needed a push and incentives at home to revise for tests or attempt the challenge questions in homework or do a bit extra, or else will do the minimum.
Have you set a study plan, an egg/ kitchen timer (not phone...) works for 20 minute blocks- 'Attempt this question/ study for 20 mins till the timer then stop and change subject or take a five min break. After two blocks you get a cup of tea etc. Set key outcomes - 'I want to work towards 4 hours of quality study per week and we will pop that only a weekly plan that I will go through with you' - the rest is up to him

Trying to prepare him to be more independant in his homework and leave him to do it but he ends up watching youtube inbetween work, using a calculator when he shouldn't or looking up answers. Recent maths assessment scored 13 out of 37! usually does a lot better than that. No calculator and no phone or laptop - have you got google family controls? - you can see the history on your phone live - but ifhe has no device he cannot watch you tube*

So how do i help him be more motivated? * As above, I am all for reward too, if you get % increase in grades this term (measurable) then you get X - that might be a trip or a lesser percentage increase gets something else. Dont have a goal with an all or nothing measure - it should be graduated so they can achieve part of the way. There must be a tech event, new piece of kit he can work towards?**

he's obsessed with his phone, computer, anything with a screen on it! Taking it away makes no difference as he then threatens to go to friends houses to play instead.
He has it too long and regards it as a part of his life as opposed to something to be earned, reduce the time and increase the worth and offer to trade the worth for the things you want. You HAVE to be consistent. In my house I have the rules ( sorry if this is OCD!) on the kitchen wall, they are simple but choices equals consequences so think carefully. My kids know there will be a consequence as I always impose it. I am not the perfect parent but this works for me.*

[quote Marvellousflowers]@tiredpanda OK. So I think you are being inconsistent in reward & consequence.

I dropped a few notes below, its just my view but the basics are ' here is how we run our house, you get the freedom to do x in return for y. If you refuse to do y you dont get x in varying amounts but I will always impose the removal of x every time.

Just turned 14. Does'nt listen to rules at home, constantly arguing and pushing boundaries. Verbally rude. This is normal stuff and we can only encourage them to express their disatisfaction politely with the objective of being heard, negotiating or making a deal, verbal rudeness is a no no in my house but I am happy to hear polite counter argument

Rules at home: no food upstairs, no phones at dinner time, monday to thursday screens off at 9pm but no restrictions at weekends.
I think there are too much screens, the time needs to be shorter so the value is higher, you give free range at weekends which means he is going to push back during the week - screens at weekends are reduced too that way the consequence of losing it is higher

He gets to play on the games console up to 5pm during schooldays but has to get off at 5 and do homework, pack bags, shower, dinner before going back on between 7 to 9. This needs to be reversed - WHEN you do x, y. z then the outcome is screen time for 45 minutes, you are asking him to leave the screen to do drudge stuff. Screen is a reward otherwise whats the motivation? ( I do a lot of dog training and this is classic: use a crappy treat that the dog wont want and expect them to work for it, high value treat always)*

He is bright but has always needed a push and incentives at home to revise for tests or attempt the challenge questions in homework or do a bit extra, or else will do the minimum.
Have you set a study plan, an egg/ kitchen timer (not phone...) works for 20 minute blocks- 'Attempt this question/ study for 20 mins till the timer then stop and change subject or take a five min break. After two blocks you get a cup of tea etc. Set key outcomes - 'I want to work towards 4 hours of quality study per week and we will pop that only a weekly plan that I will go through with you' - the rest is up to him

Trying to prepare him to be more independant in his homework and leave him to do it but he ends up watching youtube inbetween work, using a calculator when he shouldn't or looking up answers. Recent maths assessment scored 13 out of 37! usually does a lot better than that. No calculator and no phone or laptop - have you got google family controls? - you can see the history on your phone live - but ifhe has no device he cannot watch you tube*

So how do i help him be more motivated? * As above, I am all for reward too, if you get % increase in grades this term (measurable) then you get X - that might be a trip or a lesser percentage increase gets something else. Dont have a goal with an all or nothing measure - it should be graduated so they can achieve part of the way. There must be a tech event, new piece of kit he can work towards?**

he's obsessed with his phone, computer, anything with a screen on it! Taking it away makes no difference as he then threatens to go to friends houses to play instead.
He has it too long and regards it as a part of his life as opposed to something to be earned, reduce the time and increase the worth and offer to trade the worth for the things you want. You HAVE to be consistent. In my house I have the rules ( sorry if this is OCD!) on the kitchen wall, they are simple but choices equals consequences so think carefully. My kids know there will be a consequence as I always impose it. I am not the perfect parent but this works for me.*[/quote]
Thank you so much for this! Only problem with no phone, laptop etc at homework time is that homework is set online, some needs online resources like bbc bitesize or videos set to watch on YouTube. Matsh is set on an online site to do

'Thank you so much for this! Only problem with no phone, laptop etc at homework time is that homework is set online, some needs online resources like bbc bitesize or videos set to watch on YouTube. Matsh is set on an online site to do'

Thats fine, I would then have the homework in a room where you are despite the concentration difficulties or he comes to the computer to watch the video/ online and then goes upstairs to complete offline?
Or he only goes online for school work during schoolwork time?

[quote Marvellousflowers]@tiredpanda OK. So I think you are being inconsistent in reward & consequence.

I dropped a few notes below, its just my view but the basics are ' here is how we run our house, you get the freedom to do x in return for y. If you refuse to do y you dont get x in varying amounts but I will always impose the removal of x every time.

Just turned 14. Does'nt listen to rules at home, constantly arguing and pushing boundaries. Verbally rude. This is normal stuff and we can only encourage them to express their disatisfaction politely with the objective of being heard, negotiating or making a deal, verbal rudeness is a no no in my house but I am happy to hear polite counter argument

Rules at home: no food upstairs, no phones at dinner time, monday to thursday screens off at 9pm but no restrictions at weekends.
I think there are too much screens, the time needs to be shorter so the value is higher, you give free range at weekends which means he is going to push back during the week - screens at weekends are reduced too that way the consequence of losing it is higher

He gets to play on the games console up to 5pm during schooldays but has to get off at 5 and do homework, pack bags, shower, dinner before going back on between 7 to 9. This needs to be reversed - WHEN you do x, y. z then the outcome is screen time for 45 minutes, you are asking him to leave the screen to do drudge stuff. Screen is a reward otherwise whats the motivation? ( I do a lot of dog training and this is classic: use a crappy treat that the dog wont want and expect them to work for it, high value treat always)*

He is bright but has always needed a push and incentives at home to revise for tests or attempt the challenge questions in homework or do a bit extra, or else will do the minimum.
Have you set a study plan, an egg/ kitchen timer (not phone...) works for 20 minute blocks- 'Attempt this question/ study for 20 mins till the timer then stop and change subject or take a five min break. After two blocks you get a cup of tea etc. Set key outcomes - 'I want to work towards 4 hours of quality study per week and we will pop that only a weekly plan that I will go through with you' - the rest is up to him

Trying to prepare him to be more independant in his homework and leave him to do it but he ends up watching youtube inbetween work, using a calculator when he shouldn't or looking up answers. Recent maths assessment scored 13 out of 37! usually does a lot better than that. No calculator and no phone or laptop - have you got google family controls? - you can see the history on your phone live - but ifhe has no device he cannot watch you tube*

So how do i help him be more motivated? * As above, I am all for reward too, if you get % increase in grades this term (measurable) then you get X - that might be a trip or a lesser percentage increase gets something else. Dont have a goal with an all or nothing measure - it should be graduated so they can achieve part of the way. There must be a tech event, new piece of kit he can work towards?**

he's obsessed with his phone, computer, anything with a screen on it! Taking it away makes no difference as he then threatens to go to friends houses to play instead.
He has it too long and regards it as a part of his life as opposed to something to be earned, reduce the time and increase the worth and offer to trade the worth for the things you want. You HAVE to be consistent. In my house I have the rules ( sorry if this is OCD!) on the kitchen wall, they are simple but choices equals consequences so think carefully. My kids know there will be a consequence as I always impose it. I am not the perfect parent but this works for me.*[/quote]
Also, he has iphone, I have samsung and my laptop is an apple one so can't use Google family

If you restrict a 14yo as suggested above you will only get further push back and defiance.

Unfortunately it is somewhat par for the course at this age (I have a 14yo DS and a 13yo DS) so you need to pick your battles. Do you want to put the foot down on screen time (you already have more boundaries on that than most parents at this age IMO) or homework?

To be honest, we have a far more harmonious household since I persuaded DH that we should be more hands-off. The DC did have a few weeks of 'forgetting' homework and being given detention but it didn't take long before they suddenly realised we weren't babysitting and they had to either get it done or face the consequences. They've become self motivated because they've been left to work it out for themselves, rather than because it's because we think they should. (Obviously we think they should, but reverse psychology works way better than battling with them).

@AledsiPad

If you restrict a 14yo as suggested above you will only get further push back and defiance.

Unfortunately it is somewhat par for the course at this age (I have a 14yo DS and a 13yo DS) so you need to pick your battles. Do you want to put the foot down on screen time (you already have more boundaries on that than most parents at this age IMO) or homework?

To be honest, we have a far more harmonious household since I persuaded DH that we should be more hands-off. The DC did have a few weeks of 'forgetting' homework and being given detention but it didn't take long before they suddenly realised we weren't babysitting and they had to either get it done or face the consequences. They've become self motivated because they've been left to work it out for themselves, rather than because it's because we think they should. (Obviously we think they should, but reverse psychology works way better than battling with them).

Thats a good post and I agree. I think the OP's issue is that the consequences are not following maybe from school so he is coasting but not getting detention etc. Always better if school issue the consequence rather than you and they learn quick!

Agree with AledsiPad. At that age they need to be responsible for themselves and live with the consequences. I never policed all 3 of mine when they were teenagers, homework, showers ect were their responsibility to organise. Mind you I was doing a degree when older two were 13 & 15🤦 my younger one used to pack his own bag and put it by the front door himself the night before even before secondary school. (but he takes after me, likes to be early and organised for everything😳) It was my responsibility to have any packed lunches lined up in the fridge and games kit/uniform washed ect but organising their school lives was over to them by secondary school age. Step back and chill I'd recommend👍

Go outcome based

You are dictating too much here and it is just a recipe for pushback and defiance - remember that part of being a teenager is making a transition from being reliant and attached to a parent to being independent. They have to find their own rhythm in life, even if it is not how you would do things.

Like pp have been saying, you need to give him responsibility for his homework, not dictate when he does it. He might decide he wants to do homework at 11pm, that's fine so long as he does it. (He might find there are consequences to that such as being tired, but then that is on him)

Let him find his own way. Like pp said, there may be some short-term hiccups, but the thing is if he made them, he has to take responsibility for them and make some changes, he can't blame it on you. This is how they grow up and take responsibility.

Hands off, not more punishments

(I have two DSs 19 and 16 and have seen all the variations of parenting at this age and the one consistency is the ones who have been hovered over are the ones that rebel, none of the hands-off ones have rebelled at all)