16 year old daughter friendship issues

[atmywitsendnow101]

I would really like some advice on my 16 year old DD who is in year 11.

DD has always been challenging, angry and prickly, and has had trouble making friends. She was diagnosed with mild ADD relatively recently for which she is receiving medication.

She was extremely unhappy at her old school so we moved her to a new school (with her full support) at the beginning of Y9. All went well at first, and then COVID and lockdown hit. Her new friendships fell apart (partly because she was dramatic and over-sensitive in online interactions). This tends to be a pattern anyway - she makes friends and all goes well, and then she fall out with them. She changed school at primary and this happened, and the same thing happened when she first moved up to secondary school. She seems completely unable to manage the give and take of friendships and while her friends have often not been blameless, the fact it is happening over and over points to her reactions as a major problem.

When she went back to school she has continued to fall out with other girls, with a lot of drama. She is now increasingly isolated which she finds very distressing, but despite being essentially a kind girl with a good heart she keeps alienating others. She talks a lot about the impact of people's behaviour on her mental health, but does not seem to recognise that her angry outbursts and criticism can also affect others. She never takes responsibility and always blames other people .
At home she is angry, rude and uncooperative, and will accept no responsibility for her behaviour. She swings between asserting her independence and wanting to do everything herself / her way and telling me how everything is all my fault and I should help her more. She is immature and needy, and wants a lot of attention (which she generally gets). Any sanctions for bad behaviour are counter productive and escalate the situation. Her school work has picked up a bit but she doesn't seem to realise how hard she needs to work for GCSE and just does the absolute bare minimum.

She has weekly counselling, which is supposed to take a DBT approach, but I haven't seen any evidence of her using or applying the techniques. We saw a psychiatrist relatively recently, who didn't think she was depressed but had a very neurotic (in the true psychological sense of the word) character. She really dwells on the negative and will still talk about how odd throw-away comments I made when she was six have affected her.
I swing between feeling so sorry for her and so exasperated by her. She's really not much fun to be around and her rudeness and negativity are really draining (although when we have days out etc. just m and her it's lovely). Does anyone have any ideas how to help her? I know part of it is likely to be the ADD, but how can we help her develop better friendship patterns?

Bump for any advice?

It sounds like she has autism as well. Did she have a full assessment for it?

Bumping for you in the hope of more input.

This does sound very tricky and hopefully it will pass. Is she likely to stay at the school for 6th form?

Mostly it sounds like the problem is she refuses to accept any responsibility herself, which is tricky. Do pull her up on rudeness at home, ‘please don’t speak to me like that’ and disengage immediately or if she’s anything like mine was, it would escalate. Also refuse to be beaten on a comment from 10 years ago. Just ignore them or ask for good things from her childhood. I also sometimes just get cross that everything we did together and all the good times we had when she was young that she feels the need to focus on that, but you probably won’t get away with that at the moment.

As for school, I’m not sure what you can do, ask her the questions how do you think what you said made them feel. She won’t accept it yet but she might process it over time. But other than that, plan for post gcse, maybe 6th form college rather than school may help her to grow up a bit.

Hoping things settle down ok.

Thanks for the response.
She has had input from a number of different professionals over the years, and none of them think it would be worth looking at autism - she doesn't tick many boxes at all, even though it often presents so differently in girls. The psychiatrist mostly seems to think it's a personality thing, and recommended CBT / DBT, which she is already having.
Her school unfortunately doesn't have a 6th form so she needs to apply for college. She's beginning to get her head round this but finds it stressful.
I do try and pull her up on rudeness, but she will usually just say something like "well, you speak to me like that" (I really, most definitely don't)and I do try not to engage when she's like this. She can't usually remember anything good from her childhood (although there was plenty - and I've plastered the walls with pictures of us all having fun to try and jog her memory).

Has it got worse in the last 12 months or so?

How are you coping with it all? We are supposed to be absolutely in invincible taking everything our kids throw at us but it’s very hard. Do you find you’re constantly expected to be able to fix things?

Billy - thanks for your response. I think that’s what’s getting me down. In some ways she’s very immature and wants Mum to fix it, and that’s what I want to do too. It hasn’t really got worse in last year except we now have her asserting her independence which is fine in theory ( and sometimes in practice e.g. getting herself a part time job) but she chooses really inappropriate times to do it. I’m struggling a bit - partly as have a lot else going on but partly as it feels so intractable.

Could you engineer friendships around an activity such as hockey? She might find it easier to form a bond over a shared activity. Also bear in mind that teens can be downright rude, difficult and stroppy without any behaviour needs. I've an 18 y/o girl and 16y/o boy and the girls social relationships are far far trickier to manage than the boy

Was there trauma in her childhood?

Rejection sensitive dysphoria is very common with adhd. I wonder is this what could be going on with your daughter.

Many thanks for your responses - much appreciated. No - no trauma. We’re all boringly normal. Although she would undoubtedly say that a number of completely “normal” events traumatised her - birth of sibling, being made to feel stupid in an incident at primary school. Yes I think I need to grey rock more. I do try to explain how she comes across an in particular tell her not to text when angry but she just says I don’t support her. I think at some level she does get it but won’t admit it, and seems unable to change. Will look up rejection sensitive dysphoria - thanks.

@atmywitsendnow101

Billy - thanks for your response. I think that’s what’s getting me down. In some ways she’s very immature and wants Mum to fix it, and that’s what I want to do too. It hasn’t really got worse in last year except we now have her asserting her independence which is fine in theory ( and sometimes in practice e.g. getting herself a part time job) but she chooses really inappropriate times to do it. I’m struggling a bit - partly as have a lot else going on but partly as it feels so intractable.

I think this is what’s so hard.

I found I was getting almost constant texts and phone calls.

In the end I took up scuba diving, I was completely uncontactable under water and by the time I’d come out, any of the dramas had either subsided or she’d worked through herself.

Hi
Thanks Billy. That's really helpful. I think I need to try and take a step back and not feel responsible for everything going on in her life. There really isn't much I can do about her friendships other than guide her, but realistically she doesn't want or follow my guidance. I just hate seeing her so miserable and making the same mistakes over and over. But it really is down to her now - we've pretty much done everything we can to support her.

She sounds very, very much like my autistic child, diagnosed age 14.

I'd consider pushing for further investigation because if she is indeed autistic she will need greater understanding from school and will be entitled to more resources and considerations put in place for her.

Has she been assessed for asd?

Hi - I have wondered on and off about ASD, but everyone (SENCO, educational psychologists X2, counsellor who has quite a lot of experience in ASD and knows her well) all thought no and not worth looking at. Psychiatrist also didn't pick this up, although wasn't specifically looking at ASD (but did do broader assessment as part of ADD assessment). She's certainly not "typical" even for a girl. How would the support given change? She already has adjustments for her ADD. Would she be able to access anything specifically about social skills, which I think are really the key problem at the moment?

It sounds like some of her coping strategies are self sabotaging as well - you say that she's texting you when she's angry? Guaranteed to make her more cross because she can't control when you see it and when or if you respond, so she just gets herself into more and more of a pickle.

Would she be receptive to being asked if she is happy with her current coping strategies and then a nudge towards only focusing on things she can control?

Much sympathy to you.

atmywitsendnow101 you could be describing my 16DD exactly, I've recently looked into ADHD & pretty sure that is her. Ditto the attention seeking and rudeness - it's exhausting isnt. My Dd had improved friendship wise & we were really pleased but just this week she has fallen out with them. From what she describes it's her more than them (not that I said that) but she says they should understand her! My DD is having counselling and we're awaiting a diagnosis tho wondering about going private. You say your daughter is on medication, has that not helped? You have my every sympathy & feel free to Message me if you'd like to talk some more.

@duvet I've just posted on another thread about my DD when I read this!
My ADHD DD is having continual problems maintaining friendships. It's as if when it get a bit dull she goes searching for someone else. Drops the friendship group to go to another party then expects them to welcome her back the next week!
It's exhausting and she then takes a huge downer where they are the worst in the world etc.
It's really exhausting and her moods dictate my mood. I worry about her happiness so much and actually can't concentrate on anything else.

Thanks @chocolatewheetabix - it's really stressful isn't it? This sort of moving from one group to another is partly how she's become quite isolated in the first place (as well as the falling out with specific people in each group), and she seems to want to be in with groups that really don't want her as they are the cool, popular set and that really isn't her. As you say, her moods dictate our moods. She's a kind girl at heart but just doesn't seem to know how to manage the cut and thrust of friendships. I hate how miserable she is.

I have no experience of this, so please ignore if it’s not helpful. But I had a couple of reflections:

1. my secondary school friendships were awful and dramatic, at 16 I was a goddam diva. I grew out of it. My friendships got better over time. I really only nailed the friendship thing by my late 20s! I was so miserable at times… but I’m ok now. I just grew up and found my people. What I’m trying to say is that she - like most 16 years olds - is a hormonal nightmare and it will get better.

2. what would happen if you came up with a couple of easy to remember mantras for her friendships like: walk away when you’re angry, kill it with kindness etc… so instead of getting wrapped up in whatever today’s drama is, you’re always coming back to the same mantras. You can design them together and then try to focus on how to apply them in each situation. This way you’re not trying to fix her problems but giving her tools to manage tricky situations and to practice them in a variety of contexts. It allows you to step back a bit too.

You can talk about them in whatever tv you’re watching too - what would happen if this character followed your mantras instead of doing what they did, etc?

Just a thought.

@pennysays - Thanks. I like the idea of mantras. Maybe I can develop a few with her.

I can’t offer much in the way of really specific advice on ADD or autism etc I have zero experience of this; but I did want to say when I was a teenager I was a terror- really miserable and I think I made life hell for my mum. When I look back now I think one of the major things for me day to day so to speak was our family’s’ lifestyle. It was chaotically busy!!! I wouldn’t dare do that much now- I was up at the crack of dawn for school, bus 45 mins each way, home after 5pm, stressful dinner with exhausted parents and siblings, poor sleep habits, too much happening at weekends too. Plus we were living during an ongoing major house renovation on the edge of London where everyone just rushed around constantly. I actually think we were far far too busy as a family unit and I think I was absolutely exhausted! Let alone striving for perfect grades, extra curricular activities, sports, friendship dramas etc. All just too much. My dad actually had a breakdown when I was about 17 which I think had been brewing my entire childhood. Is it possible your lifestyle is full on also. It’s so easy to be ‘busy’ with work/family lifestyle and I think most teens are absolutely exhausted! Im in my thirties now, pregnant with baby number 1, with a high pressure job and honestly I’m half as tired/stressed as I was during those teenage years at home. Good luck in any case I hope things improve for your dd xox

Thanks @sjxoxo. She has a long day - she goes to a school some distance away as she was so unhappy at her original school (her choice to move) and she leaves the house at 7.10 and doesn't get back until often 6pm if she gets the late bus due to an after school activity. She has appalling sleep patterns and we try to encourage better ones (and after a particularly bad period of insomnia she has been prescribed melatonin to take when she needs it which does help) . We offer healthy meals but quite often she doesn't eat them and fills up on junk - again something we have tried to address with little success.- with both eating and sleeping she does little to help herself and will refuse for instance to come off her phone at night. Other than that she does a few extra curricular activities of her choice, but our family life is very quiet and she pretty much never goes out with friends. I think she is tired but this is a pattern that has been going on since long before her current long school days.