Found that DD16 has been wearing a binder and hasn’t said anything about it

[Barryallen]

Hi everyone,
Looking for some advice as to how to approach the subject with my DD in the most sensitive way possible. The other day I was picking up laundry from her floor and grabbed what I thought was a sports bra. She quickly grabbed it off me and told me it was her friend’s bra (from a sleepover) and she’d return it to her. It looked larger than a regular bra but I didn’t immediately think anything.
However, we’ve been away for a weekend and I saw she was wearing it under her sport uniform and it seemed very tight under the arms - definitely didn’t look like it fit properly iyswim.
The other main thing is that over the past year she has struggled in lockdown and asked to speak to a therapist who said she showed signs of depression and she is now on a low dose anti-depressant. She seems happier in herself but over the past year also she only buys Men’s clothes. When I ask her about this she says it’s for comfort but recently she’s buying men’s underwear even.
This is a complete 180 from the child she was last year - dressing in regular, if somewhat skimpy teen girl clothes.
When I checked the brand of ‘sports bra’ I realized it was a brand for binders.
I want to support her whatever her choices are but at the same time I’m feeling very emotional about it all (not sure why?) and don’t want to mess up the conversation and have her feel I’m not supporting her. Any help from other parents who’ve been through something similar?

Watching with interest.

How difficult. I’m not an expert and am actually on the gender critical side of trans issues.

However I would approach it as non judgementally as you can. Just say you saw it was a binder she was wearing. You’re here if she wants to talk, you love her and give her a hug. It’s probably best not to ask anything just now as she’s obviously defensive about it. Just let her know you’re there for her.

Then make time for her- coffee, lunch, walk, don’t mention it but see if she opens up.

Good luck.

Thank you for the kind words. At the risk of being flamed I think the reason I am so emotional is that deep down I am on the gender critical side of the issue somewhat but at the same time I love my children with all my heart and am terrified of not supporting them emotionally and them doing something harmful:(
To put things in context a bit more- we aren’t in the UK and where we live is a little more liberal and accepting. She already drives so has more freedom than she would do in the UK and she has a wide range of friends from various ‘tribes’.
She’s always been very open with me - about what her friend group get up to and also about boys she has liked- even up until 6 months ago!
The depression sprung out of a crazy school schedule combined with her having trouble keeping up with a harder class she was taking. At least, that’s what we thought it was.
I’ve no idea the stance her therapist takes on gender issues - I guess that is my next step to reach out to her therapist with my concerns and see her thoughts (if she can even share with me - not sure how that all works either)
I just feel sick and totally out of my depth. And I can’t mention anything to DH yet because I know he won’t react well or be that sensitive and that would just inflame everything:(
Any advice welcome at this point.

Sending love and

I don’t have advice, but Transgender Trend has a list of resources for parents.
www.transgendertrend.com/resources-for-parents/

You have my sympathies. Read up on this so you understand what's happening here.
I would go for letting her know that you are aware that the bra is a binder. Don't make any judgemental comments, but maybe say that if she wants to talk to you about anything she can.
At 16 she may be more comfortable talking to her peers than her parents, but you can remind her that you're still interested in her life and welfare.
I don't think you can push for more than that right now. You aren't going to push her away by offering love and your attention.
Will she still spend time with you? I find walking or driving are good chatting times as it's less intense and easier to open up.

I'd agree spend some time and see if she'll open up... maybe if you bring some alternative ideas such as a good sports bra? Once you understand what's driving it. If she's conscious of her breasts then there may be another way forward which doesn't have the health issues associated with binders.

There's a really interesting article on a thread in sex and gender chat, written by a butch lesbian talking about body dysmorphia
Might be helpful for an alternative perspective

Binders are harmful

Suggest a minimiser bra instead with baggy, layered masculine clothing.

Yes they are harmful, but that's probably not a good opener for a conversation. Ask her to put it in the wash sometimes so she doesn't feel the need to hide it, at this stage don't try and forbid it, it won't help and she's unlikely to comply or want to talk with you. Maybe ask how much/how often she wears it? Perhaps offer to get her a good sports bra or minimiser to wear for breaks from binding.

Is it definitely a gender thing though?
Could it be a I dont want to grow up/things to change( a little late at 16 I assume she has had boobs for a while but who knows)/my boobs are bigger than my friends thing/I look better with a flatter chest thing? Lots of girls prefer boxers and more mens style clothes no?
Agree some communication and ensuring she knows you won't judge or try and change her.

A good sports bra and firm running vest is quite similar in effect but safer.

It's really common here (U.K.) for teens to experiment but friends of my DD's have changed their mind after a few months or even years in one case, it's ok to question, very normal. Most young people are pretty liberal here

Thank you all so much for your kind and helpful words. I did have a little cry after reading them😢
I decided to meet her after she finished work and take her for food. I actually wanted to talk to her about a friendship she has with a very intense girl - long story but she’s become very attached to my DD, turning up at the house every day uninvited and both my DH and myself have had a bad vibe about it recently. I have a friend whose daughter had severe problems with this girl so I wanted to chat about how she views the friendship and share my concerns. That conversation went well and as part of it I reminded my DD how we’d always been able to talk and I trusted her and loved her. It seemed a good moment to discuss the binder.
It seems she ordered it via a friend a few weeks ago because she feels a sports bra doesn’t give her support or coverage. She says she hates her breasts. I asked her if she was stressed or confused about anything. She says she identifies as a girl (kind of scoffed me asking otherwise) and that her clothes choices are just ‘her style’ and that part of her is not causing her depression. She said it was just how she was comfortable and it isn’t a big deal for her generation.
I did ask her to try and talk to me about anything like this rather than go behind my back - she pointed out she really didn’t talk about this kind of stuff with anyone (and not her therapist either which surprised me?)
I also talked about how I didn’t think binders were healthy (especially as she wore it for sport!) and asked her to think about using sports bras rather than the binder. I’m thinking this will be an ongoing conversation but I’m hoping that she feels she can talk to me now. She has a long way to go but where we live the next two years determine her path to University so I want her happy and healthy and ready to take on the world as an independent 18 yr old. Hopefully I can keep the lines of communication open for now.
Thank you all again 🥰

I've never heard of binders before but during the age of 16-18 (I am
Now 50) I hated my breasts so much that I used to tie mine down with scarves. Sounds ridiculous now but I never thought anything about it in those days.

You sound like a fantastic mum. Keeping communication open is so important. I'm sure with your support she will come through any insecurities she may have

@Yesyoucantell

Binders are harmful

Suggest a minimiser bra instead with baggy, layered masculine clothing.

When used safely (ie. not for the whole day and in the right size) they’re safe and comfortable. Certain brands are designed to be as safe as possible and, provided you follow certain advice, you won’t have any of the extreme side effects like cracked ribs.

For many, the mental relief of chest binding is worth the risk, however most understand that the safety aspect of it is incredibly important. If OP’s daughter is binding unsafely, then something needs to be done to help with that, but otherwise it’s not as dangerous as people seem to thing.

Was about to post asking for help with similar when saw this thread, so thanks op.
Like you I was shocked when school rand to say dd wanted to identify as gender neutral, and change her name . I hoped the name thing would blow over, mainly because she seemed to be putting herself through so much stress during exam time, and if she changed her name ( to something very teen age ry )she may well regret it in a few years. It all seemed to be a big fuss when there didn’t need to be one.
Now she says she has body dysmorphia, I don’t understand and I’m transphobic. I said, um, I’m not, but i am concerned that you are harming your body and asked her if she’d researched how to bind safely. (Wtf)I managed to get her to show me her binder as she said the sports bras id bought her were no good.
She showed me some you tubers who were talking frightening stuff as far as I can see, but obviously that means I’m transphobic. Actually it’s confusing, I’m not an idiot but I find it difficult to understand why under the umbrella ‘woman’ we now have ‘ cis woman’ and ‘ trans woman’ I’m sorry what? There are about 33.75 million women in the uk and approximately 200-500, 000 trans people, not just women. frightening was that they start off their video with a lot of how jk Rowling is of course allowed her opinion..and here they are to tell us why she is wrong. Sorry, ranting. My dd is swallowing this stuff whole and is now saying she’s an abomination hated by society and at last she can be free to speak. And the English were solely responsible for wiping out the 3rd sex in India when we colonised them and now at last they can be more out in the open..and so on. I don’t understand actually.Yes, cut your hair and wear men’s clothes and no one actually notices, or cares really. Except the girls at school who love a bit of drama. I don’t think I’m transphobic. I know I’m not, but I am very phobic about the stress this is placing on a very easily influence, naive teen. And obviously other teens too.
Rant over, sorry. I’m sure I should edit this, but I’m upset- ridiculous pressure for young people.

Anyone wants to help me understand, I’d appreciate it as I may have come across as a bit bonkers.

Hi - thanks for your reply - I completely get where you’re coming from. Since I posted it all kinda kicked off when we were trying to deal with another issue:(
Both DH and I had (separately) had bad vibes about one particular friend she had. It seemed to get very intense over the past couple of months and in the end the last straw was the friend turning up at our house at 10 at night, letting herself in our house (we tend not to lock the door until we go to bed) and going upstairs where our DD was asleep and waking her up- then coming down to the kitchen, scaring my DH who was in the living room by being brazen as anything!
I reached out to a friend who’s daughter was also friends with this girl and heard a horrifying story of almost ‘stalker’ behavior. Spoke to DH who also felt unnerved by this girl. Decided to talk to my DD about it - went fairly well and asked her to either take a break from the friendship or pull back. It also seemed a good time to talk about the binder- I just let her know I knew what it was and she could talk when she wanted.
Sadly, my DH decided to fish a bit more about this girl and made the decision to check her messages on her laptop (just with this particular friend)
When I got home he was a mess. Told me to read the messages between them. It’s hard to talk about but turns out the influence and manipulation from this so-called friend has been going on for months. Basically encouraging my DD to consider herself a boy, dress and a boy and telling her all her mental health issues will be solved when she ‘chops her breasts off’:(
Calling my DD ‘dude’, telling her she wants to bang her, undermining my DH and I for months (f*ck your parents, they don’t understand you…)
Plus lots of saying about ending it all (from both girls although many more from the friend than my DD- we counted around 20 messages from the friend for every 1 mine sent.
Horrifying. Ended up emailing DD’s therapist in a panic, she called and insisted we stage a crisis intervention because my DD hadn’t opened up and talked about any of this during 3 months of therapy so far which is more worrying apparently than talking about it. We aren’t in the UK btw so the process is all private healthcare here.
Ended up having to confront DD (she was, and still is furious with us for reading her messages) and had a Zoom consult at 10 that night with an emergency mental health professional:(
They talked to her and determined it was just words and there is no real intent behind those words but it’s all been a shock and honestly I feel like I don’t know my own child anymore. She is refusing to talk about anything gender or sexuality wise but we don’t care what her sexuality is- honestly we’ve always been a liberal welcoming family. The idea of gender dysphoria is just so scary though and the prevalence of social media influencing a still-forming teenage brain is terrifying. The sexuality (she says she’s bi) doesn’t phase me, the boy clothes even aren’t a problem but I feel like whereas I want her to spend time in therapy and take her time figuring her life out, the current charge towards medical, irreversible intervention is overwhelming:(
At the moment it’s one day at a time, she is thawing a little towards us for the intervention (purely really because even she understands we were frightened when we read the threats to end it all!) and nothing is being said about anything else. I’m reading as much as I can on all sides of the issue and not allowing myself to think much further ahead. I do feel, guiltily, that I’m mourning the daughter I thought I had and the usual life moments I assumed we’d have with her- my issue I know but doesn’t make it any less sad. Don’t get me wrong - I adore my DD (using that label as she hasn’t said anything around the issue yet) and won’t stop loving her whatever but I’m terrified.
Sorry for the long post - I just identified with what you said and when you feel so alone anything that resonates helps a little.

Oh my goodness how absolutely awful for you, and for your dd. I read your post totally empathising and feeling for you. What an awful person. Beyond words. I can’t offer advice, but can offer hugs. It sounds as if with a therapist and your amazing ability to keep the lines of communication open you are doing a n amazing job.
the current charge towards medical, irreversible intervention is overwhelming totally agree. Also your comment about social media on the still forming teenage brain. What is going on? It seems whatever you are going through is because you are actually trans and it will all be magically solved when you just admit it and join the wonderful trans family. And yes, your parents are all transphobic. I had to explain that ‘ phobic’ is a word for when you are terrified of something, like you can’t go near a spider. I don’t feel that way about trans people. Or I didn’t. Beginning to feel a bit ill when I see a rainbow. Especially when it’s just jumping on the bandwagon and used to sell crap, at the expense of teens mental health.
I’ve been advised by a counsellor that deals with teens that a lot of this is this generations attempt to shock us. That’s all fine, but like you, it’s the worry that they will harm themselves misguidedly. And like you, I’m appalled at the nonsense that is being spouted. And if you dare say anything, well! My Dp made me laugh when someone said to him , ‘you don’t like me because Im gay,’ he said,’no, I don’t like you beacause you’re an idiot’ which seemed to sum it up really.
I’m sorry she has found such an awful friend. Is this a friend in real life or an Internet friend? I don’t know if explaining that not everyone has her best interests at heart, but you do, even if you don’t fully understand and can she help you understand so you can learn together. That’s the approach that was suggested to me by teen counsellor. Of course easier said than done. Apparently every time I call her by her name or as she, she feels like a knife has stabbed her. Ffs. And she is now rewriting history, has never liked her body.wants to look like a boy but when I asked what sort of boy, they have all different shapes, of course it’s some idealised k pop idol.
It does sound like your daughter is beginning to understand whyYou are concerned though. I was given this link, I hope it helps. They are a very helpful bunch.
Sorry, incoherent ramble! But well meaning one!

www.parentsofrogdkids.com/

Dd also sent me this link which apparantly explains what it’s all about from the trans (her) POV. I have to say I haven’t had the balls ( ha!) to watch beyond the first few minutes yet, but it might help explain what they are watching?

Also the alternative view is from a girl called Im Watson on you tube.

What the Hormones Didn't Change | a Detrans ... - YouTube

I don’t know if this is a link. She is a wonderfully brave and articulate woman who has returned to being a woman.

I’ve just scootled around you tube. I have to say I’m shocked at the amount of crap, and attention grabbing irresponsible idiots on there.
And if that’s transphobic, fine. Actually it’s irresponsible idiot phobic.

You’ve got this, you are all talking and apparently that’s the main thing so that she knows she is accepted. 💐💐💐💐

This is such an upsetting topic and I feel very much for both of you. It’s so hard to deal with this one as it doesn’t just involve the usual teenage forms of rebellion but also involves bodily modification as a form of self harm to deal with their distress. No parent has ever been asked to accept this before by teenagers. The distress and worry you are feeling is utterly natural and ignore those (inc your teens!) who say it’s bigotry.

You both sound like fantastic parents so you will work this out. There is great advice if you join Our Duty of Bayswater on twitter/fb.

Thankyou NowtSalamander have just had a read and this looks like a great ,reassuring resource.

Poor you and your poor DD. It sounds like she was in an abusive relationship with this girl. Being with someone who is very controlling and very manipulative can have a very damaging impact on your mental health. Trying to alienate your DD from you is a form of coercive control. Helping her to understand this might help with her mental health problems.

I think at the moment you need to focus on her distress and trying to lessen it. There is a good podcast called gender a wider lense which tries to unpick some of the underlying issues that teenagers with gender disphoria have.

@WhyMrsRobinson

Anyone wants to help me understand, I’d appreciate it as I may have come across as a bit bonkers.

you feel bonkers because this whole situation is so destabilising - imagine how it is for them, with no grasp on reality..

I find 'Gender a Wider Lens' odcast series (also on youtube) a breath of sanity and compassion around teenage dysphoria (theres a lot of 'anti trans' rhetoric out there focused on womens safe spaces but its often quite angry and not really the ideal headspace we need to be in for our kids..

and i'm currently listening to 'Irreversible Damage' as an ebook - buy it now and read/listen.

between the two of those they're good primers i think.. sorry for hurried reply
hth