Should I put DS in for his music grade?

[Maskerading]

He's been learning for years but never done an exam. Partly because he started with group lessons, then first yr of secondary had a teacher that didn't deliver, then pandemic... Latest teacher promised progress, but it hasn't materialised.

Before Christmas we had a report from her saying DS wasn't making enough progress and should maybe switch instruments. But it was out of the blue - nothing had been said to DS - and I felt it was a bit off to suddenly say he should quit. I suggested we'd make sure he practised properly - if the teacher focussed on telling him what he needed to improve.

Fast forward to Easter, and the teacher says he's done a lot better and should go in for grade 4 (first exam). DS has been practising a lot - but there's a lot to get on top of that he hasn't had to deal with before. I've seen improvements, but I don't know if it's enough to pass. I also feel like I've given him the tips and techniques he has benefited from (understanding patterns in scales etc). He has chosen GCSE music, so it would have a wider consequence if he gave up now, and he very much wants to stick with it.

Just had an email from the teacher saying maybe DS shouldn't do the exam at all because of the risk of failing, but I don't think we can say that to him.

So. My question is what do we do? Does he go for the exam with the prospect of failing? Or not go for it? Is it better for him to have the experience of failing and then he can make his own decision?? He loves music and being in the school/music service orchestra and I don't want to destroy that... If you've got to here, thanks, and any advice welcome...!

When is your DS expecting to take the exam? I would ask to have a proper conversation with the teacher and talk to them about the likelihood of whether or not he is going to pass or not. Taking the exam and failing would be quite demoralising and they cost money each time as well.
If your son has not been practicing properly that is the reason he isn’t going to pass and not putting any effort in, then maybe it would not do him any harm to fail and realise that he needs to put more effort in. However, if he has been putting lots of effort in then it could really be a big blow.
Grade 4 is not a straight forward walk in the park.

Sorry I can’t help more!

What instrument? It’s very unusual that grade 4 is his first exam. I’m an instrumental teacher. Is it ABRSM or Trinity syllabus?
He should definitely not sit the exam if you think he will fail

Grade 4 violin ABRSM. Due to happen in a couple of weeks, all paid for (though that isn't the main thing).
If we weren't so close I'd have been happier about putting off the exam/not entering DS.
But I don't understand why the teacher has let us enter him - and let him think it was feasible to pass (the most she's said is some other kids have failed who she thought would pass). And I don't understand why she went from that to saying - at the last minute - there's a whole list of things wrong with his playing that can't be improved enough. Or why she didn't suggest grade 3 instead.
I really wish he had done exams before. At least some of the scales etc would have been bedded in that way...
He does practice, but while he loves playing, the technique doesn't come naturally. I just don't know what's best and what would least affect him. I will talk to the teacher - I know that's the only option - but v helpful to get others's views!

Have you got the ABRSM aural practice app? That would be a good way for him to maximise his marks at least on that section.

Violin is a really hard instrument... my sympathies.

Hopefully your son will at least pass. Maybe it's time to find a different teacher, that he clicks with.

Could you book the exam for the next session instead - I think late autumn? We’ve just had this with my son’s grade 2 guitar. He only got a few weeks notice of the exam - it was earlier than we’d expected - and it’s been quite a panic getting the scales and all the not-the-pieces bits ready. But his teacher was really reassuring and sure enough he just needed the confidence boost. Exam tomorrow fingers xd.
But if the teacher had said she wasn’t sure, I’d have pulled him out, cited COVID at him, and rebooked for the autumn. I don’t think a first exam with the teacher wobbly and unsure is a good idea. But it depends what he thinks. If he is still keen to go for it, tell him this is a practice go, and if it’s tough, he can take it again next term.

@Maskerading

Grade 4 violin ABRSM. Due to happen in a couple of weeks, all paid for (though that isn't the main thing). If we weren't so close I'd have been happier about putting off the exam/not entering DS. But I don't understand why the teacher has let us enter him - and let him think it was feasible to pass (the most she's said is some other kids have failed who she thought would pass). And I don't understand why she went from that to saying - at the last minute - there's a whole list of things wrong with his playing that can't be improved enough. Or why she didn't suggest grade 3 instead. I really wish he had done exams before. At least some of the scales etc would have been bedded in that way... He does practice, but while he loves playing, the technique doesn't come naturally. I just don't know what's best and what would least affect him. I will talk to the teacher - I know that's the only option - but v helpful to get others's views!

Ok, I’m a violin teacher and this situation doesn’t make a great deal of sense lol.

I have never (in 25 years) encountered a student where grade 4 was their first exam, sometimes the initial or grade 1 is skipped but grade two would be the highest grade as their first.

The exam is structured like this
Scales 21
Sight reading 21
Aural tests 18
Pieces 30 x 3 = 90
Total 150, 100 is the pass mark. As you can see the pieces are the most heavily weighted so if his pieces are strong there is a good chance he can pass even if the other areas are not quite up to standard.

Technical proficiency is required in position changing at grade 3 level and is quite likely to be included in the grade 4 sight reading.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but from what you’ve posted I would seriously consider changing teachers. Of course a candidate needs to be well prepared before entry?!

The rules are strict for ABRSM exams but in your position I would get a refund (just say you’re self isolating) which shouldn’t be queried, get a different teacher and suggest working from grade 3 standard to include technical work such as the introduction of chromatics and position then start exam stuff at grade 3 level.

Good luck x

Chromatics and position changing that should say sorry

Feel free to PM, this is a really awful and avoidable situation for you to be in and I feel cross for you!

Does he need to take the exam,what will he gain from it? Ime it's a good way to track progress and for people who like working towards something with an exam at the end. I didn't do grades for piano and neither did son with drums,it's not essential.

Learning an instrument wasn't essential for GSCE music at my dad's school. Saying that,after GSCEs he's never played the drums since ,I wish he'd never done it

@MagnificentBottom I never did a violin exam until grade 5 in violin! The teaching I had was less focused on passing exams though, I still did do all the scales etc as part of general teaching, and didn’t find it difficult to suddenly do exams and had time to enjoy learning without the stress.

Sorry just realised that isn’t really relevant to you OP Is there a particular part he is finding challenging?

**ds's school NOT dads

What does your DS want to do? Does he feel he is ready?

My DS nearly didn't take his Grade 4 exam as due to series of mishaps he discovered 2 weeks before his exam he hadn't prepared one whole piece plus some exercises. His teacher said it was probably worth working flat out, taking the exam and chalking it up to experience if nothing else. We now both hate his Grade 4 pieces but he practiced for pretty much every waking minute for 2 weeks - and passed.

Your teacher's attitude just seems - odd. What do they think he needs to work on to pass?

I'd also say that he doesn't need exam grades for GCSE music (they are entirely separate) but if he's in Year 10 it might be useful to have a music exam under his belt for evidence in case NEA doesn't happen as normal again next year.

[quote PurpleSunrise]@MagnificentBottom I never did a violin exam until grade 5 in violin! The teaching I had was less focused on passing exams though, I still did do all the scales etc as part of general teaching, and didn’t find it difficult to suddenly do exams and had time to enjoy learning without the stress.[/quote]
Yeah, I totally get exams are not for everyone, occasionally I come across students who stipulate beforehand they don’t want to take exams which is absolutely fine.

I personally think exams are important achievements and I like the structure and syllabus. It’s great you still covered the scales as of course these form the basis of pieces.

It is unusual to decide at grade 5 to take the exam though! Glad you didn’t find it stressful.

Thanks everyone. @MagnificentBottom I've PM'd you.

DS has been looking forward to the exam, not least because he wants to finally get one under his belt! I think we will probably say as kindly as possible that his teacher is worried he might not pass and that wouldn't be a nice experience. And that we aren't happy with the teacher and how they've not prepared him properly!!

I still don't know for sure what the best thing is. Suppose we'll see how the conversation goes!

The risk of failing should not be a reason to not take an exam. Good luck though, hope DS passes, and being able to play a musical instrument can be a pleasure for life.

If he stands a reasonable chance of passing, go for it!

The experience will stand him in good stead for a retake or to progress, if he passes.

Learning to fail and bounce back is a good thing. Just help him enjoy the experience and don’t pressure him.

I think some music teachers don’t like their pupils failing because it reflects badly on them.

Well, tough, you cannot only teach the best students and so over prepare them that they all get merits and distinctions.

Is he doing an online exam or a face to face one? If it's an online ABRSM one, my experience has been pretty negative, in that my pupils have received far lower marks than they would have done in a face to face exam and I have received my first ever fail from it, from a student who I thought would get a high pass. Some of my colleagues have had similar experiences. It depends on how resilient your child is- would he cope if he failed? Or would he be devastated and want to throw in the towel?

Having said that, if he was at the point of not passing, there should have been far more communication between the teacher and you about this in the last few weeks, so that you could be adequately supporting your son at home. I'd be querying this with them!!

@TheReluctantPhoenix, of course as teachers we don't want our students to fail as yes it does reflect badly on us! I would never enter a student for an exam I thought wasn't going to pass- why would I? These exams are expensive- we're talking £50 for a Grade 1 up to over £100 for Grade 8. For most parents that is a significant amount of money which you don't get back if you don't pass, and I feel hugely responsible to them because they pay me to ensure progress and to make sure their child gets the best mark possible for them. Sometimes this will mean a pass and sometimes this will be a distinction. But I wouldn't ask my parents to lay out that kind of money if I didn't think there was going to be a positive result at the end of it.

Hi - I'm a music teacher and have some sympathy with your son's teacher. She probably entered your son into the exam thinking he would continue on the trajectory he was on at the time, but have he may have plateaued in recent weeks (which is normal after a sudden leap) and not made as much progress as she hoped in time for the exam. It's often a difficult call for teachers to make.

I would talk to her and ask exactly what he needs to do to pass - then ask your son if he thinks it's possible to get those things under his belt in time. Give him the option to delay to the autumn term. If he's up for the challenge, I would manage his expectations and say you're proud of him for giving it a go and if he doesn't pass he can always try again in the autumn.

Good luck. Music exams are not easy!

"Not making enough progress"
"Should switch instruments"

I would surmise from that, that your son, although musical and with potential isn't progressing as he should in her opinion and the most likely cause if that is because he's not practising properly.

Perhaps he would feel more inclined to put the work in at home and between classes on an instrument he were more interested in?

What has happened to Grades 1-3? Couldn't he take one of those instead?

So we spoke to DS and explained his teacher was concerned he might not pass and suggested he maybe didn't take the exam. But we said it was up to him to decide what to do.

He's decided he's put a lot of work in and wants to take the exam. He knows it will be disappointing to fail, but is determined to try his very best. Admire his attitude TBH.

But we will start with a new teacher after the exam. This one has never (he says) given any indication over concerns about his progress and I think that's very poor.

Good on him, and I agree you definitely need a new teacher, yes sure I’ve put people in at the beginning of the term where it should have been a sure thing to be exam ready and they just haven’t put the work in, BUT I have been honest and kept the parents in the loop every step of the way. I will second everything @MagnificentBottom has said, I’m a piano teacher.

If it’s all paid for it’s worth giving it a go. Is the teacher accompanying the exam with him? If it’s someone else, it’s worth paying extra for a couple of sessions, I’ve accompanied before and ‘helped’ with things.