Daughter Vs Mum

[Si1883]

I hope all reading this are safe and well.

I’m looking for some guidance/experiences/advice about my daughter (15) and wife.

They are constantly bickering, but my daughter is the one looking for the fight all the time. She’s mean, devious, sly and plain horrible. I honestly don’t know what to do. If inside with one I upset the other - can’t win. Right now, they have had a disagreement where my daughter was just fucking horrible to me wife and now my wife has shit down completely - we were having a good day. Now my wife won’t barely talk and I know she’ll be dismissive of any attempt by me to break the ice. What a shit show.

As for the daughter, she’s buggered off to her room and left me with the pieces to pick up. Quite frankly, I’d happily send my daughter to care right now. I can’t get my wife to speak to any professionals ( I think she’s a little down) Somehow the two boys - 11 and 13 are not showing any signs of being phased. But I know kids see stuff. I really don’t want this to affect everyone in the house when clearly the issue is wife/daughter. Can anyone suggest anything?

Is everything ok with your daughter? Is it typical teenager behaviour or could it be lashing out because of something else?

It sounds like a very difficult environment but remember that you and your wife are the parents and need to get to the root of the problem and come up with ways to get things better. Try talking to her, doing/planning fun things together etc. It sounds like you’re close to giving up, but don’t - if necessary, maybe therapy would help.

Tried everything I can think of. Planned nice stuff etc. All I get is shit. She’s 15 and wants to go to places with her mates in that are not acceptable ie hours away on a school night. She’s a manipulative little cow that lies all the time. It always ends up with me feeling guilty and walking on eggs shells with everyone else in the house.

Oh I'm sorry, op.

Its not much consolation but the relationship between teenage girls and their mums can be a nightmare - very fraught and with explosive arguments.

For many, it will pass and improve as the daughter grows up and moves out, gaining her independence.

I think its right to take the moral ground and side with your wife when your dd behaves abominably and I'm sorry you find yourself in the role of peacemaker as its a hard position to be in.

Your wife may well benefit from seeking additional support but you can't force it, she might be worried about being judged as at fault. I think there can be a lot of shame involved when a relationship like this breaks down.

I'd attempt to keep relations cordial between you and your dd and speak to her as a adult when you address her behaviour to avoid emotional defensive flares. Reiterate ground rules and explain how her behaviour hurts her mother but be sympathetic to her frustrations if its reasonable to be.

Sounds like a tough situation. How do you talk to your wife about it in private? It sounds like you are at your wits end with your daughter too and fully understand that the negativity is coming from her, so your wife knowing you are fully on her side, even when needing to take a softer tack to your daughter (to stop her from fully shutting down and the situation becoming unsvagable), should help enormously.

The way you talk about your daughter is horrendous. Do you use words like "manipulative little cow" to her face?

Cheers Tara. I think we are way beyond this. I’ve tried to treat her as a grown up but she’s just vile to her mum still we’ve tried to give her some more freedom etc to show we understand but that’s never good enough. If my daughter is a basket case and I’ve just got to get her to 18 so she can sod off then fine. But I worry about the others in the house - wife and two sons. They don’t deserve this they are good people.

I’ll continue to cook dinner and see what explosion comes later this afternoon.

@BilboBercow

The way you talk about your daughter is horrendous. Do you use words like "manipulative little cow" to her face?

Oh have some empathy, I doubt they'd say it about their own child if it wasn't true.

aSofa. I can have empathy for op and still not like the way he talks about a 15 year old child. In fact "manipulative little cow" really isn't an acceptable way to talk about an adult either. OP is upset but every comment about his daughter is vitriolic. She's clearly troubled, it's his job to understand why, not put her in care or call her a badketcase.

@BilboBercow

aSofa. I can have empathy for op and still not like the way he talks about a 15 year old child. In fact "manipulative little cow" really isn't an acceptable way to talk about an adult either. OP is upset but every comment about his daughter is vitriolic. She's clearly troubled, it's his job to understand why, not put her in care or call her a badketcase.

Each to their own - I think a parent that has been pushed to the point of saying something like that (which does not come naturally to most parents) on an anonymous forum, away from their child, should be able to get support. You don't know his daughter, you don't know that she doesn't behave that way.

What does your wife say/think/feel?

Are you on the same page? Will your DW get some emotional support to survive this?

Sometimes are DC are not very likeable.

@Si1883 I think we are way beyond this
Has she always been like this or has her personality/temperament changed for the worse?

If the latter then I agree with a PP that it may be worth investigating if she's experienced a trauma that you do not know about. Children and teenagers who go through terrible experiences, especially when people don't know about them or when they have been denied help and understanding, act out and behave atrociously because they don't know how to process their experiences, thoughts or feelings.

There are also parenting guides and experts out there for parenting teenagers and it might be worth exploring these resources too.

I'd be interested to know how much of it is standard teenage rebellion coupled with rudeness or whether any of her behaviours lie outside the 'norm'.

I have a dd of the same age. I understand that you are frustrated and fed up, but I really don't like the way you speak about your daughter. Her behaviour might be vile, but she is still your child.

Puberty is a shit time for kids. There is so much going on for them. Sometimes they take it out on the people they love most. That isn't easy to live with, but demonising them away will only make them worse. They need patience, love and understanding.

A few of my dd's friends have very difficult relationships with their parents. Without exception, those kids are really struggling with their mental health - eating disorders, self harm, suicidal ideation etc. Typically, their parents are unaware of the extent to which they're struggling. The shitty behaviour at home is just one way in which their problems are playing out...almost as if they are testing their parents to see how far they can push them.

A little kindness and compassion in this situation might go a long way.

Could you give some examples of her behaviour? You've said she wants to go to 'unsuitable' places - such as? You said her and your dw (her mother I assume) bicker, but specifically what happens.

The words you use are truly abhorrent frankly and it's difficult to see in text whether that's just your natural frustration over really are serious issues, or whether your expectations are way too high.

I appreciate that my words may not be approved by some. However, I needed to vent and I never treat her with any disrespect. I only wish I had parents that would even try and talk to me like I try and talk with my daughter.

We have the school involved, social care have been spoken to and we have arranged for her to see “off the record” - a local child’s support service. Nothing has been left to chance. We have got her away from some disruptive “friends” etc. What’s all the more baffling about this is she’s nigh -on a straight A student with her GCSEs! She has high personal expectations- wants to be a VET!

Should we be looking at her current friends / boyfriend etc in more depth? I don’t want to be overly intrusive as I know teens want some space etc.

This isn’t about me, but I had crap teenage years - no support, no guidance blah blah and had to find my way on my own. I don’t want her to have to lose so much of her teen years like I did.

Why are social care involved? And are you and your dw on the same page?

Yes that was blunt. Yes I’m frustrated. But no, I’m
Not a horrible person. I’m here expressing what I feel to try and get some support. She does lie, she isolates me or my wife and then try’s to play us off against each other. We are not leaving any stone unturned with regards to finding out what’s happening when we are not about.

My cousin was exactly the same. She was a manipulative little cow, played her parents off against each other, had absolutely no respect for her mother and there was no cause for it, she just turned as a teen we could never understand it. It sounds like you’re doing all you can, I think you need to leave her to it, stop inviting her to family activities she’ll soon turn back to you all if she feels she’s missing out. If she doesn’t well then she obviously has no care and as you say when she’s 18 she can bugger off.

No. It’s how she operates. I talk to her like a teen should be spoken to, with respect and understanding. She constantly threaten to leave home at 16and after today’s performance I’d happily drive her where she wants to go! Obviously, that will not be happening. She’s has sooo much potential it’s unreal. She’s just being very hard work.

I have seen several women on MN admit they were vile as teenagers to their parents and they still don't really why.

Probably it's a brain and emotional thing, there is so much going on and you are the focus of everything that it's safe to rebel against.

In 10 years she will likely to have matured enough to be ashamed of her current behaviour.

She starred to harm herself - well that’s what she was telling us but would not show anyone. We spoke to the school and they raised things up the tree. I spoke with the social people and they assured me that she’s not showing any of the signs that should be of worry. But obvs keep an eye on it and note down when she’s doing it.

Pick your battles. Leave her in her room when she wants to and she will.come down when she is hungry. She is prob walking on egg shells thinking no one loves her etc.

It's really important with teens that you don't let the bad moments spoil the good ones.

They can go to pissing you off hugely to making you laugh several times on the same day. This is ok. Don't hold onto grudges.

Where possible you want to calm things down not escalate the tension.

I feel like I can spot several ways you're escalating rather than defusing. But I won't be able to articulate this well, sorry. This situation isn't about who is right or wrong, you need to let go of all that resentment. This situation is about you finding ways to live peacefully with them and still influence and guide them in spite of their total unreasonableness. If you can do that successfully then you will still have a decent relationship with them and can even enjoy their company (in moments).

Sorry I don't think I'm going to express myself better. Just recall that This Too Shall Pass. Things will get better (eventually).