Gifted teen wants to leave school

[Syldon]

Dear all . I'm hoping for advice or pointers to helpful resources. Our DS, who is nearly 15, would like to leave school at the end of next year (the earliest he can legally). From the age of 6 or 7, he has taught himself computer programming, and last summer secured a real job at a real firm through connections he made online (we vetted the company and the owner and it's above board). He says that he's happiest when he's programming and cannot see the point of staying in school when school isn't teaching him 'skills to pay the bills' as he puts it. Our DS is at a boarding school that is supportive of his programming and gives him some time to work on it at school. He won the DT/STEM scholarship when he entered the school and this luckily has given him some extra time and space to work on his projects. But it seems that's no longer enough, and he emphatically now would like to leave school. His DH and I are wondering what to do: we are both university educated and value higher education. We appreciate that uni isn't for everyone, however, but we're very concerned that our DS will be losing opportunities in the long run. Of course, he can always go back to school later, and we realise this too. At the end of the day, we don't want our son to be miserable, and I think that forcing him to stay in school if he doesn't want to might result in depression or, at the minimum, lots of resentment. On the other hand, allowing him to drop out of school seems somewhat irresponsible from a parental perspective. I would very much appreciate hearing advice from anyone who has had a similar experience or might have words of wisdom to help us make a decision. Thank you very much. xx

Ooohhhh, this is difficult! I have a 19 yr old DD who is in her first year of Uni. She also went to boarding school and from when she was born her father and I roughly mapped out her education (private prep, boarding senior then onto Uni). This was fortunately what she chose to do anyway.

This is really outing, but so what. She's always wanted to work in the intelligence services, from when she was a young teen and seriously thinking ahead. It's been her absolute aim and to that end we suggested studying languages at Uni because they're very attractive in the field she wants to go into. She agreed with this - until the summer of L6 when she suddenly started drawing and painting and we quickly discovered that's she's actually very talented! God knows how, but she is really good and loves doing it. Shortly afterwards she announced that she was going to do History of Art at Uni, not languages. We pointed out the flaws in this and suggested that art - although important to her - shouldn't be her focus for further study.

To cut a long story short - she eventually decided of her own volition that studying HOA at Uni probably wasn't the best idea and she is now doing Spanish and Russian at Uni which hopefully will help her along her intended career path. But we did find an art diploma she can do online so she pursues that interest too. The important thing is that SHE decided not to do art. I'd already accepted that she was going to do it (on the premise that I'd rather her spend 3 years doing something she loves and being happy than studying something that wouldn't make her happy).

Sorry that's so long! In short, I get that it's so hard when your DC expresses desires that just do not fit into your expected path for them, and at 15/16 there's a real chance he's not quite able to make the right long term decisions for himself. I think I'd insist on 6th form at least. His prospects might be brilliant, but what if they aren't? What if he needs something to fall back on?

I had a friend at Uni who had always wanted to go into radio broadcasting. Absolute passion for her. Her parents said that was fine and they would support her - on the condition that she had a degree in something solid first. She's now a lawyer.

Another friend did Engineering at Cambridge then swiftly went into TV production.

It is difficult, so a compromise would be good, I think. Let us know! PM me if you want :)

I can't follow OP very well. is the boy's plan that he would leave with zero GCSEs?

No I think he wants to leave after doing his exams.

I very much disagree with pp.

If your son is going to work in the tech industry he will benefit from a rounded education. All tech companies, big or small, operate with relatively flat hierarchies where multi-disciplinary team work, collaboration and communication are valued extremely highly. Developers need to understand and often even participate in other disciplines as part of agile processes.

While your ds might be brilliant at coding (and that's fantastic!) he would be one of the lowest educated people in his work place as he progresses through his career. There is more to higher education than getting a qualification, you learn about how your discipline fits in a wider context, you learn to critique and be critiqued and you learn more about the world. Most jobs do require a degree or post graduate degree and even if your son is a mega star coder, he'd still have to compete for jobs with other talented coders who have higher qualifications.

If you son drops out now and becomes a super coder, he's become a 'one trick pony' in the long run and career progression among developers isn't amazing. Many move onto project or product management or of course start their own businesses.

In any case, I think your ds would benefit from learning to delay gratification, choose his a levels wisely and keep developing his programming skills. If he's at boarding school now, couldn't you look for a 6th form with excellent provision for people who are interested in computer science.

If your son is gifted, maybe he's just bored but it's good to learn that you have to work through your boredom to succeed in the workplace.

Just to offer a different perspective.

What are you actually asking here? I thought you were asking whether to agree to your ds who is currently in year 10 leaving school now?

The responses seem to be in response to a kid leaving school at the end of year 11.

If the former he CANNOT leave school now. You and he would be fools to support that. He needs to take his GCSEs. Apprenticeships can't happen until after he takes them next year.

If the latter then yes great! Support that!

lljkk the OP said 'the earliest he legally can'. That will be June 30th of Year 11 - after GCSEs have been taken. Unless he doesn't bother to turn up to his exams (unlikely if he is at a boarding school) I am sure he will have the usual bunch of GCSEs.

But it seems that's no longer enough, and he emphatically now would like to leave school

This suggests the idea of leaving next year has changed in favour of leaving now. But it's unclear.

@sweerbun . Degrees are one of the traditional entry routes into for tech companies eg through graduate programmes, I agree. But apprenticeships are now also very much an acceptable way Into the industry. He would build skills, expertise and experience whilst his peers are at university, which would allow him to then 'compete with other talented coders' who have degrees.

I honestly don't work for an apprenticeship provider, but have enough experience in the tech industry to know that they are a very real alternative. I've also seen too many parents pushing their children to go to university when it hasn't been the best thing for them.

Again, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and stories. This is incredibly helpful for thinking through my question. To clarify, my DS is thinking about leaving school after his GCSEs, not before; apologies that I wasn't clear about that. Like many of you, I value higher education. I went to a liberal arts college in the US and feel grateful for the classes that opened my eyes to different ideas, the practice with writing I received and the many incredible friends I met along the way. I worry that if DS doesn't go to uni and I appreciate that UK unis tend to be more focused on single-fields of study he will miss out on exposure to different people and ideas and other coming-of-age experiences. On the other hand, it's heartening to hear that apprenticeships are a strong and valid route into industry, and we will add that to our options. We have options, so that's something to be grateful for, and I am sure (or fairly certain at least!) that DS will work hard in his chosen path. To be sure, the comment about 14-going-on-15 perhaps not being the best age for making drastic life decisions is spot on, and we'll definitely let the question simmer for a bit longer before making (or not) a jump. Thank you all, again. Your words have brought a lot of comfort for me and DH today. xx

[quote RockingMyFiftiesNot]@sweerbun . Degrees are one of the traditional entry routes into for tech companies eg through graduate programmes, I agree. But apprenticeships are now also very much an acceptable way Into the industry. He would build skills, expertise and experience whilst his peers are at university, which would allow him to then 'compete with other talented coders' who have degrees.

I honestly don't work for an apprenticeship provider, but have enough experience in the tech industry to know that they are a very real alternative. I've also seen too many parents pushing their children to go to university when it hasn't been the best thing for them.
[/quote]
If uni really isn't for him, I agree entering an apprenticeship would be a good idea, especially for less academic young people. I just find it difficult to understand why a gifted pupil would want to lose out on HE. Not judging at all just surprised.

@Sweetbun there are many reasons - academically capable but don't enjoy academic study; lack of parental support; money worries; family issuers; lack of confidence- or simply a desire to work rather than study.

The requirement to remain in education or training from the end of Compulsory School Age to the 18th birthday is a theoretical one. There are no penalties attached to failure to comply. The door is open for penalties to be introduced at some future point, but there are none now.

So I wouldn't be swayed by that.

There is a practical consequence built into the benefits system, in that young people who aren't in education or training cannot claim benefits, nor can their parents claim benefits for them beyond the end of CSA. For this reason, many parents in this situation might tell their teen that they must get a job and support themselves after 16 if they aren't staying in education, because the parents can't afford to keep them. I am guessing that this isn't relevant to your family, since you mention your son being at boarding school.

I agree with everything Sweetbun says about the industry and especially If your son is gifted, maybe he's just bored but it's good to learn that you have to work through your boredom to succeed in the workplace. Ds2 is year 10, he is also bored shitless of English lit but he still has to take his GCSE in it.

Yes you can leave school at 16 (end of June) but the rules are

You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:

-stay in full-time education, for example at a college
-start an apprenticeship or traineeship
-spend 20 hours or more a week working or volunteering, while in part-time education or training

That last one isn't clear enough it means no one can employ a 16 year old full time, they must complete at least 280 guided learning hours a year in education or training. If he has an offer of a job at 16 it must come with training too.

I would think that something you love now at 14/15 may be great but he needs at least GCSEs before he can move onto anything else. And yes, my son also codes/does ethical hacks/does online courses/has certificates for completed courses/completed uni summer schools for CompSci and has been doing that since he was year 10. So I do understand a child having a massive passion for something.

But he also has incredible GCSE results, is year 13 and should walk with 4 stellar A level grades and has 4 offers from top RG unis for CompSci degree.

Because as Sweet says it isn't just about coding it is understanding how that fits into everything else and also uni courses cover a wide variety of disciplines, AI, Data Science, Networks, Computational thinking etc. Just because you love something now doesn't mean you won't change your mind especially if you have been introduced to stuff you haven't even considered before.

As a minimum he needs to stay on for his GCSEs, has to in fact.

I recall some chap who felt the same as your son, and dropped out of his uni course to write software.
Bill Gates...!

I'd try and encourage him to do at least A levels. Maybe from home at the local college, at least in the subjects he's interested in. Maybe coding part time. If he's bright he might be able to do them in 1 year.
Going to Uni at any age is fine, but having to do A levels or equivalent before you get there can be an absolute bind.

University can be all about connections, and as someone said up thread, access to funding. You need to try and get him to see education as an investment in his coding future. Once he's doing A levels and just subjects he loves he might enjoy education more.

If your DS is interested in coding and not the ‘uni experience’ it would be a waste of time and money to go to a traditional red brick uni. Going to uni doesn’t guarantee any personal growth if all you do is sit in your room coding.

Let him drop out but encourage him to get a degree online / part-time while working.

For context I’m a programmer and my firms has lots of apprentices/degree apprentices. I also went to an ‘elite’ uni and the amount of people who did nothing but study was insane...they were basically getting a very expensive piece of paper and not much else.

Also forgot to add - can he do a foundation year/ BTECH/NVQ? That would be computer science focused and he could do a top up degree. A - levels are not the be and end all.
And tech is one of the most meritocracy fields, nobody cares what degree you have let alone what uni you go to

He sounds ideal for an apprenticeship

https://careers.sky.com/earlycareers/business-technology-apprenticeships/

The technology pathway is very oversubscribed but it sounds as if he might be a standout candidate. It might be a match made in heaven, if not, he might have his eyes opened to what it's like working with other people in large organisations.

Good luck

I'd post this in the home education section as well @Syldon
There is no reason why he couldn't leave sooner if he wanted to. He's have to officially deregulated from school though. Some people are autodidacts- i.e. they are good at learning by themselves.
There is a young poster on the AMA board who has done very well for herself.
Not everyone needs to go the traditional route.

Deregistered! Bloody kindle