DS beside himself because of his thoughts related to his identity. REALLY need advice please.

[Shinealightonus]

Hello everyone.

I really need a listening ear as I don't know who else I can talk to. It's devastating to see my ds(13) so upset.

He came to me a while ago asking me if I think he could be a narcissist. I said absolutely not, he is infact the complete opposite of this. Eventually it came out that he had some 'feelings' when he was younger and had come across an article about autogynaphobia. He had looked up that men with this grow up very unhappy and normally have narcissistic personality disorder and will never have a happy marriage etc...he said he has had thoughts relating to himself as a women and has felt good feelings but now he is so ashamed.

He has now found articles relating to covert narcissism which he thinks he has. He has related one or two things to himself. He said he is so worried that one day he will hurt a womens feelings unintentially. He said he never wants to do that so is avoiding girls at schools as he doesn't want to get too close just in case he hurts their feelings one day. He says he feels attraction towards girls but not how he thinks he should. Well he hasn't even had a girlfriend and he is only 13!

He does suffer from intrusive thought OCD and he has had many other thoughts over the years. Usually around the topic of doing something morally wrong. He is asking me if I will still lpve him one day if he gets diagnosed as a narcissist. He really can't get the thought out of his head. He said he is tired of not being able to switch his brain off and his body feels exhausted. He can't concentrate on anything not even interests. We have had a initial letter saying that he is on the waiting list for Camhs.

He said this thought is real and he said he is sorry that he is one and that he desperately wants to not have it but he does.

I just don't know what to do anymore. Its all he thinks about and its so upsetting seeing him upset. He has agreed that he won't look up things anymore but will come to me.

Thanks for listening. I'm not just saying it but he is so kind and gentle and all he thinks is that he is a horrible person:-(

Hi, I’m a GP. Your poor son, how awful for him. You’re right in that people who worry they are narcissists generally aren’t! This all sounds very in line with an obsessional thought, I’m not a psychiatrist but I suspect it’s all part and parcel of the OCD. Definitely get him to step away from google! And it’s good he’s on the waiting list for CAMHS. I think counselling for his OCD would probably help him a lot and if you can afford it you might want to look into getting this privately while waiting for CAMHS. The National Young Minds charity also have a great parent helpline and might be worth calling and chatting through this concern with them.

I presume you mean autogynaephilia - thoughts about himself being a woman. Does he feel like he’s trans or does he just like thinking about being a woman but wants to remain a man?

My DD had intrusive thoughts connected to OCD, CBT helped her immensely and in a short space of time. If you can't get to a therapist there's some good resources online. There was one which ecplained it very well to her (she was 11 when it happened).

@Iceskatingfan

Hi, I’m a GP. Your poor son, how awful for him. You’re right in that people who worry they are narcissists generally aren’t! This all sounds very in line with an obsessional thought, I’m not a psychiatrist but I suspect it’s all part and parcel of the OCD. Definitely get him to step away from google! And it’s good he’s on the waiting list for CAMHS. I think counselling for his OCD would probably help him a lot and if you can afford it you might want to look into getting this privately while waiting for CAMHS. The National Young Minds charity also have a great parent helpline and might be worth calling and chatting through this concern with them.

Thanks so much for replying. I did pay for someone who specialises in OCD and she told hm it is an OCD thought but he didn't divulge the crux of it about his feelings he had. She told him any thought that takes away his peace of mind is OCD and I'm also not to talk to him about his thoughts too much but its hard. He is adamant that this narcissism is not an ocd thought. He showed me this article on covert narcissism and I think I could put myself in the box. One example was self criticism!!

@BlueSoop

I presume you mean autogynaephilia - thoughts about himself being a woman. Does he feel like he’s trans or does he just like thinking about being a woman but wants to remain a man?

He thought he liked thinking of himself as a women.

It sounds like classic intrusive thoughts OCD.

How many narcissists are actually worried about being narcissists? Or misogynists worry about upsetting women?

The fact he is concerned is effectively diagnostic that he doesn't have any of these problems or identities but what he does have and needs to focus on is managing his OCD.

My DS had horrible thoughts like this but regarding rape when he was 11!! Some child at school told him what rape was (we hadn't had the conversation at home as I didn't really think he needed to know what it was at that age). He was then terrified that he would do that to someone when he got older. The thoughts got more and more destructive and were also merged into generalised anxiety. We got him private counselling with a child-specialist counsellor and she focussed on a lot of mindfulness and he has been like a different person.

He now says he still has worried but just, what he called "normal person worries".

I realise that 13 is a more tricky age than 11 but just so that you know you're not alone. But also, yes, get him to step away from Google! I wouldn't focus too much on the identity thing, it sounds much more likely to be OCD.

@AnnaMagnani

It sounds like classic intrusive thoughts OCD.

How many narcissists are actually worried about being narcissists? Or misogynists worry about upsetting women?

The fact he is concerned is effectively diagnostic that he doesn't have any of these problems or identities but what he does have and needs to focus on is managing his OCD.

I said that too but he just won't accept it. He keeps going on about covert narcissists. I said even covert narcissists wouldn't be thinking about it. All his thoughts seem to relate around hurting someone. He also worries about his animals and worries he will neglect them and get arrested by the RSPCA.

@Seriouslymole

My DS had horrible thoughts like this but regarding rape when he was 11!! Some child at school told him what rape was (we hadn't had the conversation at home as I didn't really think he needed to know what it was at that age). He was then terrified that he would do that to someone when he got older. The thoughts got more and more destructive and were also merged into generalised anxiety. We got him private counselling with a child-specialist counsellor and she focussed on a lot of mindfulness and he has been like a different person.

He now says he still has worried but just, what he called "normal person worries".

I realise that 13 is a more tricky age than 11 but just so that you know you're not alone. But also, yes, get him to step away from Google! I wouldn't focus too much on the identity thing, it sounds much more likely to be OCD.

Your poor DS. I'm so pleased he found someone he could speak to about this and I'm so pleased he had responded well to the treatment. My son had an 'intensive' session with a lady who specialises in OCD. It was 1.5 hrs and £150. But one session wasn't enough. I belive the identity feelings may have been passing thoughts and now he cant get it out of his head. But he keeps saying its real. Maybe it is but I know he isn't a bad person.

I think remind him that it takes many years of training to be a psychiatrist and diagnosis of mental health issues is very tricky and not intended to be done by a worried 13 year old on google! As you say most of us could tick many boxes for all number of mental health disorders which is why it’s important to have the experience and knowledge of a psychiatrist rather than seeing it as a tick box exercise. I suspect the thoughts about being a woman are also obsessional in nature, like I am sure most kids think at some point “I wonder what it would be like if I was the opposite sex” but this is a passing thought for most where he has maybe got “stuck” on it and dwelled on it. Of course this could indicate a desire to be trans but I honestly think the way you have put it that OCD is hugely more likely. Just generally reassure him and tell him you love him whatever the case is and you’re sorry he’s having these thoughts and maybe try to distract him with another activity while you look into private CBT for him would be my advice. I wouldn’t spend too much time arguing with him about it as he has clearly convinced himself this is going on and I suspect you won’t change his mind easily, but just remind him he isn’t a psychiatrist so until he discusses it with CAMHS that’s not definitely what’s going on.

You can reassure him that anyone who cares about the feelings of other people is the opposite of a narcissist, but it is normal during teenage years to have a lot of introspection and wondering about who you are as you are starting to change from childhood into adulthood. That period of change - the teenage years - is very intense and it is totally normal and sensible to consider and imagine all sorts of possibilities about who you are including your sexuality and gender and what life might be like if you were a different sex or in a different family etc.

Encourage him to like and accept himself for who he is. You can get journals that teens can fill in to help explore this.

@Iceskatingfan

I think remind him that it takes many years of training to be a psychiatrist and diagnosis of mental health issues is very tricky and not intended to be done by a worried 13 year old on google! As you say most of us could tick many boxes for all number of mental health disorders which is why it’s important to have the experience and knowledge of a psychiatrist rather than seeing it as a tick box exercise. I suspect the thoughts about being a woman are also obsessional in nature, like I am sure most kids think at some point “I wonder what it would be like if I was the opposite sex” but this is a passing thought for most where he has maybe got “stuck” on it and dwelled on it. Of course this could indicate a desire to be trans but I honestly think the way you have put it that OCD is hugely more likely. Just generally reassure him and tell him you love him whatever the case is and you’re sorry he’s having these thoughts and maybe try to distract him with another activity while you look into private CBT for him would be my advice. I wouldn’t spend too much time arguing with him about it as he has clearly convinced himself this is going on and I suspect you won’t change his mind easily, but just remind him he isn’t a psychiatrist so until he discusses it with CAMHS that’s not definitely what’s going on.

Thank you. Thats really helpful, I'm thinking CBT may be a good route to choose. I also think he has had lots more time to dwell on his thoughts recently. He said when he was in class last time he found it so hard to focus on the lesson. His teachers only have good things to say about him, I really don't realise how much of a struggle it is for him x

Mumsnet

From the bottom of my heart, I am so grateful to everyone who us replying. You really are lifting me up on what has been such a hard time. I know I can't appear to be unhappy around him but I feel deeply unhappy as when he hurts I hurt too. X

There is a from of OCD called 'scrupulosity' which is characterised by the sufferer having obsessive thoughts that they are a bad or immoral person. It sounds like your DS might fit this.

@NotDavidTennant

There is a from of OCD called 'scrupulosity' which is characterised by the sufferer having obsessive thoughts that they are a bad or immoral person. It sounds like your DS might fit this.

Absolutely. This is the theme of nearly all his worries

I can't add anything to what has been said, only that I hope your son feels better soon and that many many people have.similar worries, if not.to the same extent.

@ShakeaHettyFeather

I can't add anything to what has been said, only that I hope your son feels better soon and that many many people have.similar worries, if not.to the same extent.

I think a 'normal' thinking person may have thoughts throughout the but someone with OCD can't let them go as easily. I also have had intrusive thoughts through my life. Manageable now but at some points it was horrendous. I wonder if it can be hereditary?

The comments of iceskatingfan are really really sensible. Your son sounds like a lovely caring sensitive intelligent boy. 13 is a tough time, hormones, school, GCSEs , Covid and even the most robust kids really wobble.
As his mum you will be worried and googling too most likely!! But you’re not a psychiatrist and not is he, and it’s very easy, especially at this age, to read more into situations. Over analysing with them and then starting to worry and them picking up on it can just exacerbate. Try and distract him, do stuff with him - games, cooking, walks, watch his favourite bands on YouTube. Continue to strengthen and build your relationship but don’t divulge too much his desire to self analyse and catastrophise. Go for some private therapy perhaps where he can learn strategies to deal with low mood and ideas that make him anxious. Good luck

@Lilactimes

The comments of iceskatingfan are really really sensible. Your son sounds like a lovely caring sensitive intelligent boy. 13 is a tough time, hormones, school, GCSEs , Covid and even the most robust kids really wobble. As his mum you will be worried and googling too most likely!! But you’re not a psychiatrist and not is he, and it’s very easy, especially at this age, to read more into situations. Over analysing with them and then starting to worry and them picking up on it can just exacerbate. Try and distract him, do stuff with him - games, cooking, walks, watch his favourite bands on YouTube. Continue to strengthen and build your relationship but don’t divulge too much his desire to self analyse and catastrophise. Go for some private therapy perhaps where he can learn strategies to deal with low mood and ideas that make him anxious. Good luck

Thanks so much. Sounds really sensible advice. At the moment he is struggling with anything other than the thoughts but I will work on doing some nice activities with him and I think you're right about not talking qnd analysing the worries too much which I was trying not to do but at times he just wants to else gets really distressed.

Thanks so much for replying