I think my 16 year old is stealing from his brother and it has broke my heart...

[Dickorydockwhatthe]

He's been out of control the last few months smoking, drinking, running away because we took his phone off him after he smashed his laptop after an arguement with dh because he wouldn't do his work. He's not coming home until late even though his curfew is 9.30 and quite honestly he shouldnt be going out but its impossible to stop him. Friday he came home at mid night. Dh and him are not getting on at all and theres no respect between them. They are starting mediation this week if ds agrees. The other day ds 2 said some of his money was missing. He had a recent birthday. This is not first time it's happened so I told him to hide it away. He said his brother asked to exchange some money the other day and thinks he then saw where he hid it. Again I can't be for certain. However it was £35. We said no more about it and brought a tin for ds2 to lock money away and told him not to exchange any money again. Tonight ds 1 showed me a necklace he brought for his gf he said he got my dad to order it online for him and cost him £35. When I questioned him he said he had money from birthday and Christmas. I don't believe him. He's been literally down to his last pennies as he's been wasting it on food and spent some clothes before that. I've been wondering a while now where all his money has come from for all I know he could have taking money from us too. I feel sick and can't sleep. I'm so upset and angry. I'm at breaking point with him and barely know him or like anymore.

Drugs? Classic signs.

No definitely not drugs. Smoking definitely. He's just spent £35 on a necklace for his gf. This is what's almost confirmed it although seems stupid that he should tell me how much. This is the exact amount that went missing 😔

I've also seen the necklace tonight which made me feel sick.

OP you have posted about him before... yes

@BlueThistles

OP you have posted about him before... yes

Yes, I'm at my whits end to be honest. I'm trying to be calm, reassure him, negotiate, let work go a bit. But how much am I supposed to let go and ignore.

I would send the necklace back.

He hasn't admitted and I have no proof. But the fact my younger son has said £35 is missing and then ds then makes a comment he paid £35 for this necklace not knowing we know ds money missing has just made me feel sick.

How much am I supposed to let go and ignore

None of his awful behaviour should be ignored. I have teenage boys and I know it can be very difficult when they rebel and become defiant.

My advice would be to present a united front with your dh. Agree on consequences and enforce them. He's still only sixteen so you can lock the door and insist he can't go out, stop giving him any money (drinking and smoking is really expensive, how is he affording it?)

It's pretty obvious that your son stole from his brother. Teenagers are often selfish and hurt everyone around them. There's no need to wallow in feeling heartbroken, teens lack emotional maturity; his actions don't mean he doesn't love his brother. Instead put your energy into stopping your son behaving this way. Make it clear the consequences if anything is stolen in the house, and follow through.

Could you get his school involved? You mention mediation sessions, is that organised by his school?

When we have put consequences in we've beem flamed on here. Taking his phone off him led to him running away, locking him in meant he tried to jump out the window and dh then restrained him although ds told school he pinned him down. He then broke stuff. When we try to give consequences he gets angry, smashes things, tries to jump out windows and tells people he wants to go into care. I'm heartbroken.

Have you sat down and had a family meeting about this? Keep it very calm and not accusatory. Tell him you are worried about this and want to clear it up. That ds2 has some money missing. I don't think you should assume he is guilty until he has had a chance to explain himself. What does your dad say about it?

I know it's very hard, but try and look at the positives too. At least he came home on Friday, even though it was late. And it was better than staying out until midnight on a week day. Is he staying out late with his gf? If so, there are worst things he could be doing. And buying a necklace for his gf is quite a sweet gesture in a way (don't tell him that) although stealing is absolutely wrong. Keep the positives in mind before condemning him totally.

If it does turn out that he has stolen money then of course he needs to suffer natural consequences. So he has to work to pay his brother back. In the pandemic, that probably means doing household chores at home and maybe for your Dad if you are in a bubble together?

Overall, it's fine to express disappointment and anger, but try and direct that towards his actions and faulty thinking, rather than towards his character. Keep saying that you believe he is a better person than his actions are currently demonstrating. Do you feel sick because you think your own parenting is at fault? If so, try to overcome that feeling and deal directly with the issue. If he is the culprit then he did the "easy" thing - rather than saving up - talk to him about how he made himself feel temporarily good by giving his gf a necklace when in reality:

• his girlfriend wouldn't want a necklace that was bought with stolen money
• he has damaged the trust between you all
• he should be the one protecting his younger brother and standing up for him, not causing him problems
• he may feel good temporarily giving his gf jewellery but deep down he knows it's an empty gesture because no work went in to earning the money for it.

Tell him you love him too much to let him delude himself like this!

I hope the mediation goes well. I don't think you should be asking him to attend. It should be mandatory.

Thanks for your advice. I think the mediator will be giving the choice. We definitely all need it.so hope ds agrees. Im too scared to even ask about the money I'm living on eggshells because at the moment he is unpredictable and just not responding to any boundaries. He doesn't get pocket money because he refuses to do anything around the house. And I've given him the option of simple chores like juts keeping his room tidy. I will try and look at the positives although struggling. I just feel its spiralling 😔. This isn't the first time and it's always his brothers money. I dony think he feels any remorse. He's always blamed his brother for everything even when he's nots there. His behaviour is very narcissistic.

Can you give the back story on here that you have posted before about how controlling and awful your husband is to him. That this kid has a miserable life with no outlet so is desperately lashing out?

@lowbudgetnigella

Can you give the back story on here that you have posted before about how controlling and awful your husband is to him. That this kid has a miserable life with no outlet so is desperately lashing out?

Actually his behaviour is out of control. He cannot blame stealing on his relationship with his father he knows right and wrong. They are going to mediation. My husband is stepping back. He is trying and yes damage maybe done but that doesn't give him a get out cause to act this way.

Op I don't know the back story but I hope the mediation will help the relationship between your ds and his dad. It sounds as though the entire family might need a "re-set". It's hard to know from just a few paragraphs but reading this it seems like there is already very much a split between how you and your DH treat both boys but of course that could just be the natural result of your ds1's poor behaviour. Be careful that a "golden child" v "devil child" scenario doesn't become too entrenched though. Remember that teens are selfish sometimes because their brains don't properly develop until they are 25 or so.

It's so difficult in a pandemic, but now is the time when your ds1 desperately needs to be given some responsibility that is slightly ahead of his current skill set and he needs to have some privileges that come with being older eg he gets to go with you on a road trip (make up an excuse or an errand?), something that involves you in relying on him to help you out (with a work task?) . Anything which demonstrates that there are benefits to being older as well as downsides (eg the responsibility that comes with it).

You ask how much you should ignore? Well ignore him saying he wants to go in to care. That is him lashing out. Harden your heart a bit and try and keep your feelings out of the equation. He needs you to be calm and strong and to give him boundaries however much crap he throws at you.

Stealing definitely cannot be ignored. It's worrying that you feel too scared to bring this up with him. Ideally, your DH would have your back and help you address this in a calm manner with him. At least wait until your ds1 is in a calm mood to address it. Maybe he is so defensive because he thinks he is being judged unfairly by your DH? If one parent is too strict, it can often result in a "may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" attitude.

Being frank, I think all this ' ds doesn't know that we know ds1's money is missing' is a bit mad and adds to a poor family dynamic. You and your ds2 should not be having secrets about your ds1 that your ds1 isn't aware of.
Whyy are you keeping secrets from one another? This should be addressed at a family meeting all together but as your ds1 gets so angry, maybe the mediator could help?

I agree with the above and think you definitely need outside support. You're in danger of giving up with enforcing consequences and boundaries because you're finding it so hard, for example saying you're treading on eggshells around ds and don't want to bring up the stealing issue, saying you've been flamed on mumsnet for putting consequences in place?
That's no reason to not continue battling through this angry rebellious phase your son is going through. He's still a child, you're still the adult. I've no doubt this is a painful, heart breaking time for you but you're going to have to strong and continue being the parent to resolve this. In sorry if that sounds harsh.

Could you push for more outside help? Social services? Perhaps you could contact the police if he's regularly meeting up with a group of friends and drinking? Would that give him a wake-up call that you're serious.

Thank you for the response. Ds2 told me his money has gone missing and said its £35. We re counted, tried to work out his spending but he is adament its gone. I haven't told ds 2 as he is the only one in the house who realistically could have taken it if it is genuinely missing but like I said I couldn't be 100% sure so we have hid our money and gave ds2 a locked tin. It was only last night that ds2 was excited and said he brought this necklace for his. He said it was £35 so I obviously I questioned where he got it from and he said xmas/birthday money. However he has been spending alot recently and we have been wondering where it has come from. He doesn't have a good relationship with his dad, they don't have alot naturally in commons but dh has tried and spent time with his following his interests. However dh is quite strict and expects things to be done when asked. He and ds clash as ds has a lazy attitude and dh is very hard working. Ds also has some learning difficulties which he's only recently been diagnosed but this would not effect his moral compass. There's alot to the story but him stealing is not right regardless and he cannot keep blaming his dad for his behaviour.

Ds1 brough the necklace I mean. Sorry for confusion.

It's good that mediation is happening as long as they genuinely both want to make it work and listen and are both prepared to change. I remember being affected by your previous post and how sad and unhappy your DS sounded. It seems like you edit until he has (potentially) done something bad and post it on here to get sympathy and advice when simply you just need to stick up for him and believe in him and build up his self esteem. He has no one else to do that. Can't even really see his friends at the moment. Not surprised he is lashing out.
It can't be easy but he is your son and if you push you will lose him

Contact Social Services 🌺

@lowbudgetnigella

It's good that mediation is happening as long as they genuinely both want to make it work and listen and are both prepared to change. I remember being affected by your previous post and how sad and unhappy your DS sounded. It seems like you edit until he has (potentially) done something bad and post it on here to get sympathy and advice when simply you just need to stick up for him and believe in him and build up his self esteem. He has no one else to do that. Can't even really see his friends at the moment. Not surprised he is lashing out. It can't be easy but he is your son and if you push you will lose him

I'm not editing. If I was hiding information I would have name changedi have nothing to hide. I'm not looking for sympathy i'm looking for help and advice. You have no idea about me or my relationship with my son. It's impossible to give all the details on here. There are lots of influences and factors involved. Its just a snippet. My son is unhappy with his relationship with his dad, we all are. But that does not excuse some of his behaviour. He has always been loved and cared for, supported with school and any difficulty he has had. Some people in families clash it happens I read it alot on here an its sad. I don't find your advice helpful or your comments. I'm trying tk help my son and our family your criticism and negative comments doesn't help. Do I ask ds if he stole it/borrowed it? Do I leave it incase ds2 has made a mistak. I don't have firm evidence.

You said there are learning difficulties, but has he been assessed for anything like ADD? It might be worth a chat with a doctor. Be careful as I also think there is more going on here such as drug use. I've seen the pattern before unfortunately.

@Alexandernevermind

You said there are learning difficulties, but has he been assessed for anything like ADD? It might be worth a chat with a doctor. Be careful as I also think there is more going on here such as drug use. I've seen the pattern before unfortunately.

It's many speech and language linked to processing. I will look into it. The money if he has taken it was spent on a necklace which I've seen so it's not going on drugs. Fags and food maybe.

What would be funny (obviously not funny funny) would be if DS2 bought the necklace with his own money, told DS1 about it and how it cost him £35 and then DS1 came downstairs and told you he was missing £35.

Tell him your ds2 has £35 missing and the necklace he bought just happens to be the same price and you don't want to trust him and not think badly of him but you have to ask ..."should I be worried"?