Help me decide a suitable puni for ds 16

[Dickorydockwhatthe]

Whilst at work yesterday it kicked off with dh and ds 16. Ds decided he wasn't going to do any school work which seems to be a daily things and was going to meet up with his gf and friends at 10am. Dh who's working at home obviously said no which escalated inti a row with dh locking the doors and ds trying to jump out the the bedroom window. Ds called dh a cunt and dh restrained or pinned him according to ds to stop him leaving. Ds then ended up smashing his laptopinto pieces, this is the second one now. First one broke which I think he actually dropped and now this one. He keeps saying he's going run away, wants to go into foster care etc. He doesn't respect dh or any of rules. Sick to death of the rows. Ds is not just meeting up with one person after checking his instagram so he's putting us all at risk. He doesn't help out around the house, do his school work or anything. Soon as he doesn't get his own way he walks out, threatens to kill himself or says he's going into care or smashes things up. I've had enough.

**punishment sorry

Your dh does seem to take the initiative in making things physical which ime is a bad, bad idea when dealing with an almost grown man. That is the problem with older teenagers- while immature in many ways, they have the same sense of physical dignity as adults.

How would you have reacted if your dh had locked the doors after you had said you were going somewhere you shouldn't be going? However much you knew in your heart of hearts that you were in the wrong, that would still have felt like a situation you had to break out of, wouldn't it? And if he tried to pin you down, you wouldn't have felt able to carry on living with him, would you?

Your dh is treating your ds as if he were still a small child and your ds is behaving as irresponsibly as a small child, wanting to meet up with friends during a pandemic. The two feed off one another. They both need to revisit the way they work round one another.

Your ds needs to understand that the responsibility for his schoolwork lies with him, that you are not going to be checking on him all the time- but that once he leaves school he will have to get a job and contribute to the household. He needs to start thinking of himself as an almost adult.

He also needs to understand that every adult or almost-adult needs to take responsibility for the safety of the house and that you are likely to be more vulnerable than him.

They both need to make a firm undertaking that however stressful the situation is, nobody in this house will lay a finger on anybody else or smash up property and that if this happens, the other members should call the police rather than get involved in a fight. That cuts equally both ways. Your ds needs to understand there will be external consequences to smashing up property- but your dh also needs to understand that he cannot commit assault on a 16yo without consequences.

The current situation is simply too dangerous for both of them.

Thank you Cory ans that makes complete sense. I think we are just at the end of our tether. We've talked to ds about the dangers of meeting others, not doing his work and then struggling to get a job but he doesn't seem to care. I agree dh doesn't handle things correctly and he is very frustrated with ds attitude and lack of respect for us. We have tried to compromise with school work but nothing works it's his way or no way 😔. I seriously don't know what to do. If he doesn't sign into lessons the school will be calling us. In worried he's mixing with all these people and he's also wasting his education. I know it's not easy and he's struggling as we all are but there's no leeway and that's the most frustrating thing.

when he is not angry, can you talk to him at all?

I think there are times when teens blank out and you cannot talk to them, and times when we can get through.

if there is some glimmer, as him to make a plan.
I foudn that acknowledging to ds that he is nearly an adult and that he has to make choices and decisions for himself, as he is learning tobe an adult. So he is fed up with school, and doesn't want to work, fine.
What is his plan?
What is his plan for after school in the summer? Work? A levels? What?
Nothing isn;t an option. Well, it is, but he needs ot know that he cannot claim benefits, and if he is not in education or training, you will expect him to pay his way in the house. (so he can't sit around and do nothing)
So, what is his plan?

If he is supposed to be on track for A levels, then ask - great, so what do you need to go to the place you wnat? How are you going to get there etc.

He may stomp off, but untimaltely he has to make these decisions himself.

Lockdown is very hard as they feel trapped but cannot do anything about it.
My ds struggled massively in the spring, he finally admitted to me in May that he was struggling. We asked school if he could come in as one of theri vulnerable kids once schools went bakc after half term in June. He was offered 2 days per week. It was the difference he needed.

I would contact school, tell them he is at the end of his tether and so are you. Ask for help.
Give your ds the number for the teens crisis line. Talk to him about what would help him to cope.

This is the time to talk to him and deal with him as an adult, but with your suport and help

Back off at the moment from punishment.

deal wiht this as a crisis in terms of his coping with school and lockdown. Let him know that that is how you see it. That he needs help, and that you going to be proactive about trying to get it.

(by the way, if he has an allowance, that is cut until the cost of laptop is covered)

Thank you, I can talk to him when he's calm but it's not making any difference in terms of in actions once he's made a decision he's. Like jackyl and Hyde. No allowance as he doesn't help around the house at all! we've tried but he seems to live off birthday, Christmas money or money from grandparents so hasn't learnt to work for anything 😔. He did dog walking for a bit but gave up after first lockdown. I know he won't go back to school of offered either u less made to. I will ring and speak tor he school though.

I know how difficult these years can be, but I'm wondering if it would make life easier if you let some things go, did a bit of an evaluation of what you can control and what you can't.

My own son was never very keen on his school work and also had a rough time in early secondary school which led to him more or less switching off. His GCSEs were few and not very good- he had to resit his maths repeatedly, which he now admits would never happen if he had put his mind to it. He still managed to get into a Sixth Form College, but not the subjects he wanted to do, and after a year dropped out to start again at a more local Sixth Form College, on a more vocational course. He did better on this but sadly realised that (for good reasons) the vocations intended on the course were not for him. He left school 18 months ago and has been working at KFC since. So on the face of it that sounds a bit of a disaster.

But in that space of time he has grown into an adult that I am very, very proud to have brought up. He is earning money and saving for the future. He is still living at home and that's not a problem. He is applying to manual courses and, fingers crossed, will train as a plumber or similar. I have no doubt that he will find something and that he will eventually be fine. University was never for him and that is fine. Walking straight into a vocational career wasn't for him either, he needed time to know what he wanted. He's stopped being angry, he no longer feels a failure, he hasn't thrown his life away.

I do value education, I'm an academic myself. But that is my life, it's not his.

What I really meant to say was, in the end those tiny rules that I thought were absolutely necessary to form him into a good human being turned out to be less important than the actual experience of living life.

What really, really mattered was that we should be able to look at each other as a family and each think "yes, you're on my side". That was more educational than any rule about housework or homework that I could ever devise.

Thank you Cory for your advice and so glad your son is doing well now. Sounds very similar to my son now and all I can hope for is for him to be happy and try his best.

Can I ask, is your DH your DS's dad? I have worked in residential children's homes before (secure ones for children that are unable to live in family home) and I think the best thing to do would be to wait until your DS is calm and either go out for a walk together, or a drive or something just the two of you. Ask him how the situation made him feel, its important to focus on what he was feeling rather than getting into "he said" discussions. Explain why your DH felt it necessary to lock the doors/restrain him (I.e to keep him safe) and talk with him about what you can do going forwards, for example a set amount of work and THEN going to meet friends. Be stern, and tell him that calling DH a cunt and smashing the laptop is unacceptable and maybe he can earn a new laptop by helping out around the house. I would also try to find out if there is underlying issues or problems going on with him that you are not aware of. I hope that some of this advice helps op 💐

@corythatwas

What I really meant to say was, in the end those tiny rules that I thought were absolutely necessary to form him into a good human being turned out to be less important than the actual experience of living life.

What really, really mattered was that we should be able to look at each other as a family and each think "yes, you're on my side". That was more educational than any rule about housework or homework that I could ever devise.

@corythatwas I needed to read that this evening, having had a difficult week with my 14yo DS.

He's been so awful to me and I've been torn between pushing back, telling him off, punishing with tech withdraws or trying to be kind and showing live and understanding. I've gone for the latter but it's been hard.

Thank much for sharing your experience.

OP I hope you and your DS can move forward and find some easier ground xx

*love not live.

I would see if he can go into school. He has broken a laptop so he can't work at home. He is experiencing the natural consequences of his actions. It doesn't sound good for him or your dh to be trying to both work under the same roof.

@Cattitudes

I would see if he can go into school. He has broken a laptop so he can't work at home. He is experiencing the natural consequences of his actions. It doesn't sound good for him or your dh to be trying to both work under the same roof.

Are schools just offering places to anyone who asks now? I thought there were certain criteria you had to meet.

Or is it more likely they would offer to lend him a laptop?

And it definitely wouldn’t be fair or safe for the staff and students to have to be in close contact with someone who’s meeting up with several people, in contravention of the guidelines.

@Whyistheteacold

Can I ask, is your DH your DS's dad? I have worked in residential children's homes before (secure ones for children that are unable to live in family home) and I think the best thing to do would be to wait until your DS is calm and either go out for a walk together, or a drive or something just the two of you. Ask him how the situation made him feel, its important to focus on what he was feeling rather than getting into "he said" discussions. Explain why your DH felt it necessary to lock the doors/restrain him (I.e to keep him safe) and talk with him about what you can do going forwards, for example a set amount of work and THEN going to meet friends. Be stern, and tell him that calling DH a cunt and smashing the laptop is unacceptable and maybe he can earn a new laptop by helping out around the house. I would also try to find out if there is underlying issues or problems going on with him that you are not aware of. I hope that some of this advice helps op 💐

Yes he is ds real dad but they clash massively. They are both so, so different. Dh was in the navy for the first 7 years of ds life. When ever dh used ring home ds refused to speak to him. I'm not sure of this has effected them both. Dh I guess has the mindset that he should be respectful and work hard so cannot tolerate ds attitude.

I suggest school because he sounds as if he falls into the vulnerable group. He now has no laptop to use at home so cannot work online. There is violence between him and his father. He is clearly not responding well to working at home. Obviously that is a decision for school to make but especially at 16 vulnerability is probably the main reason children are in school. Few actually need supervision because their parents are key workers.

ds was allowed into school last summer when he was struggling. They basically can be put into the vulnerable group.

OP - Cory speaks so much sense. Please listen to her!

Chaotic45 my 13 year old dd is really struggling. Major drams and meltdowns. There is nearly always an underlying cause, usually a pile up of homework she hasn't done. Dh and I have, since a big event just before Christmas, taken a very different approach. It is now all about support and help. She is our third, and we thought we did OK with the other two, but with her any consequence or punishment backfires. I have come to realise that mostly she kicks off when worried or stressed, and that what she needs from us is daily structure, (which she doesn't wanrt, but does now accept) and creative ideas. For example, we helped her to organise the pile of undone work, one bit at a time. Do this today, once done you are done. We'll worry about the next bit tomorrow and so on.

It has made a huge difference. But again this afternoon, she threw a strop, and dh went to prevent her from leaving the room (which she was doing to end the conversation) I had to remind him - let her go, we can pick the conversation up again later. We are constantly de - escalating with her. But it does work, and since we started, I have had a couple of much better conversation/moments of connection.

@steppemum thank you. I'm sorry your DD is struggling. It makes me feel better though, that having navigated teenagerdom with your two older DC you think that not one size fits all, and that it's ok to take a kind approach.

DS is a closed book generally, so I don't tend to know when something has upset him. Tiredness definitely makes it worse, which makes the flash point that is bedtime even harder. He's often at his happiest ridiculously late at night laughing away with friends online, I have pushed bedtime really late to allow for this, but as far as he's concerned it's not good enough.

I am very much of the mindset that only children who really need to be in school should be . Eg only If both parents are key workers for that category. However your ds sounds very vulnerable, I would ring the school tell them everything ask for a place and see if they can refer for some mental health support.

Well ds went out Saturday as dh said he couldn't have his phone back until we discussed things as he cannot just smash a £400 laptop. Ds walked out and later messaged dh via insta using his friends account that he's staying at his friends until things calm down. As far as I was concerned we were going to discuss things so I was calm. He's still not home today and can't get hold of him via his friends. No address for friend. If I'm honest I just think he's using this as an excuse to stay at his friends who apparently has his own flat (only 16) which his parents pay for. What do I do? Do I call the police? I just want to know he's ok and for him to come home. I just feel like he's not responding to any rules or boundaries, taking any responsibility and he won't negotiate and when things don't go his way he breaks stuff up, walks out and refuses to discuss stuff. I'm tired of it all to be honest. He just thinks he can do what he wants. I've talked to him calmly, educated him about stuff but it doesn't work. Like the other day he asked of his gf could stay over like it was not a big deal. Yes she's allowed over but she's 15 and they've only been together a month. I know they have had sex which I'm not overly happy with but obviously my main concern is he's being safe and that he's respectful.

Sorry I'm ranting. I'm just really worried. I've messaged some friends on Instagram but the boy he was staying with hasn't responded. I'm at my whits end.

Yes you phone the police. He’s still a minor and if you don’t know where he is then he’s a missing person!

@corythatwas

I know how difficult these years can be, but I'm wondering if it would make life easier if you let some things go, did a bit of an evaluation of what you can control and what you can't.

My own son was never very keen on his school work and also had a rough time in early secondary school which led to him more or less switching off. His GCSEs were few and not very good- he had to resit his maths repeatedly, which he now admits would never happen if he had put his mind to it. He still managed to get into a Sixth Form College, but not the subjects he wanted to do, and after a year dropped out to start again at a more local Sixth Form College, on a more vocational course. He did better on this but sadly realised that (for good reasons) the vocations intended on the course were not for him. He left school 18 months ago and has been working at KFC since. So on the face of it that sounds a bit of a disaster.

But in that space of time he has grown into an adult that I am very, very proud to have brought up. He is earning money and saving for the future. He is still living at home and that's not a problem. He is applying to manual courses and, fingers crossed, will train as a plumber or similar. I have no doubt that he will find something and that he will eventually be fine. University was never for him and that is fine. Walking straight into a vocational career wasn't for him either, he needed time to know what he wanted. He's stopped being angry, he no longer feels a failure, he hasn't thrown his life away.

I do value education, I'm an academic myself. But that is my life, it's not his.

I absolutely agree with you, 18 year old dd has just withdrawn from all work for a levels. COVID has destroyed all my hope for her a levels. But I have to let it go, it’s not what she wants. She works hard on things she is passionate about but school isn’t one of them anymore. Any mention of school is met with hostility and is has escalated to her locking herself in her room. But she is growing up and I know what she needs is love and support not punishment. Your son is communicating one way or another and you need to let him feel he is shaping his future himself. If he wants something enough he will get it, even if it means going back to college when he is older.

Oh OP,
seeing your latest posts is really hard, you must be so worried.

I think I would call the police. They are very likely to not do anything, but he needs to know how serious it is to go off radar. Ds did this to us once at the same age. When he returned, it was a fine line to show him we were worried, where he just thought we were angry.

no easy answers