13 year old refusing to do as told

[samantha787878]

Hi
We have a 13 year old daughter who often point blank refuses to do as we ask.

She is lovely at school and only pushed it at home. But often completely ignores us or purposely does what she is not allowed while smirking at us. One of the rules she often ignores is We have a rule about electronics being down for ten on a school night and lately she is refusing and it was leading to arguments every night. I can't physically force her to give it up and I know some parents do this but that is not something I am willing to do as she can get violent and we are trying to show her a calm role model so please no answers about that as we know it sounds like we are being soft but I am not willing to use violence.

We are also struggling to get her up for school and last week she refused to get up so I contacted the school and was honest with them but they never got back to me.

we are trying a new strategy this week after researching where we tell her the expectations and if she don't do them we don't argue and shout but there is a consequence like loss of WiFi, no lifts or pocket money. Has anyone tried this and been successful as genuinely feeling so deflated and like a failure .

we are trying a new strategy this week after researching where we tell her the expectations and if she don't do them we don't argue and shout but there is a consequence like loss of WiFi, no lifts or pocket money. Has anyone tried this and been successful as genuinely feeling so deflated and like a failure

This is the way I have always parented my now grown up girls, right from when they were tiny, and although we had typical teenage strops occasionally, we never had outright defiance or refusals, so I think it works.

Clear expectations and consequences make a person feel secure. I also made sure they knew why the expectation was necessary, along wit a policy of never saying no to a request from them without giving a reason.

That's pretty much what we do too. Another thing that seems to work is by refusing to give up her phone, it goes off an hour earlier the next night.

Our DD is 13 and her phone goes off at 9 Sunday to Thursday. Any later and she's too tired and grumpy the next day.

The physical violence thing is worrying. Seems like that’s a big area that needs addressing, if it’s affecting the type of consequences you can give her. Have you tried contacting your GP at all? They may be able to refer her for counselling.

No need for violence to force her off devices. Just change the password and force logout of all devices. Her smirk will last only as long as her mobile data.

I think you're going the right way with consequences. She doesn't get up in time for school? Tough, she walks to school and gets detention. She makes your life harder, she loses your goodwill so no lifts, pocket money etc.

Natural consequences, no anger, just shrug, say suit yourself and let her deal with the results of her actions. Act completely disinterested.

I don’t understand how after the first time you don’t just turn off the wifi for a few days.

I'd be smashing her phone for a start.

@Frannibananni

I don’t understand how after the first time you don’t just turn off the wifi for a few days.

This. If you are trying to prevent her violence instead of tackling it, I think you're in trouble.

Either she is violent due to special needs or mental health issue - requiring intervention from relevant services - or she is out of control. If the latter - you need to get school or the police involved for a chat perhaps.

Just switch the WiFi off.

Stop allowing a child to rule the roost and get serious with consequences for her horrible behaviour. A massive u-turn is needed in the way you discipline, rather don't discipline, your child.

I would honestly suggest to rethink the notion of getting her to do as she is told. At 13 you have precious little time of this left and if she is having problems with violence, that suggests she needs to learn some better collaboration/ communication/ discussion techniques, which means that going straight from adults set the rules, she adheres to them (or not) and reaps the consequences straight into adult life where she is making her own decisions is likely to be too big of a jump for her. Some children just pick up these skills automatically, so it's not a problem to use rules and consequences, but some children need more nuanced coaching into how to deal with issues such as disagreements, emotional overload etc.

I would recommend learning about the collaborative problem solving model. There is a good introduction to it here, but the best description and practical advice is in the book The Explosive Child.

thevillagenetwork.org/cps/

No, you can't physically force her to give you her phone each night, but you can put parental controls on that close it down at a certain time.

Or take it out of her room when she is sleeping and say that you'll give it back after you've had a clear discussion about expectations and consequences that you can both agree on.

Were there any sanctions for her not going to school? I don't blame the school for not getting back to you tbh, they haven't got the capacity at the moment.

If my dc just refused to go to school (and ds has tried...)it would most definitely be the most boring day in the world with absolutely no gadgets including TV. And there would be none until after a full day of school had been completed.

Screen time limit set on the electronics?
Ours is set so they can't message or game etc after 8pm school nights.
This is so they can properly wind down and. Do reading before bed

Can I recommend that instead of talking at all you just text her at 9.45 and tell her to put her electronic devices in the kitchen by 10 or x,y, z will happen

And then carry it out

(Along with changing router password/putting parental controls on)

Thank you for your help. I do turn the WiFi off if she refuses or is rude for a set amount of time. For not going to school she lost all WiFi for two days. She is not going without consequence but turning WiFi or refusing lifts etc is all we can do as I can't physically force her to do it. When I turn the WiFi off she will go on her data but like someone said the more this happens the quicker her data will run out so half way through the month she does run out of data. The violence is very infrequent and is mainly throwing things and slamming doors. She has pushed me a couple of times and for any aggression she will lose all internet until her behaviour changes and we are consistent but this is why we are trying to show her the calm, attitude. Not making excuses for her behaviour as it's inexcusable but just saying it's not going without a consequence.

I don't blame the school either but as she worries about being in trouble, that has always been my argument when she struggles to get up and now I have had to use it without them talking to her I hope she don't do it again.

Hoping that by asking and then giving a consequence is she says no etc she will realise that she benefits more from listening

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. Mine has also refused to do what I ask since around 13, and physical force is not an option. But it works better if I say 'I expect ...' and leave him to it, or 'If you do blah then blah', or at worst, 'I would like this done by 9pm otherwise blah'. Controlling phones can make them go mad so if you can find something less stressy and time-limited that can be better (like changing the Netflix password or just blocking her from wifi). At this age some of us have to accept we can't control what they do, only how we react to it.

I’m going to say something slightly different based on my own experience of a very difficult teenager. I felt it was important to address his behaviour with consequences, and was also being told to do so by everyone around me. The problem I found was that when you are managing bad behaviour which goes beyond normal teenage strops, it’s less effective. And you have to keep escalating and taking more things away. They get inured to it too, and just sit out waiting to get their phone back or WiFi or whatever and nothing changes. Also if you have a child with anger issues doing something aggressive like smashing their phone is counter productive. You are right to take a calmer approach although it seems like the hardest and most stressful thing in the world at that moment.

I started ignoring much more of the bad behaviour, so he was not getting the attention and arguments he wanted. I stuck mainly to natural consequences (if you don’t get up in time you won’t have breakfast and be hungry etc) and I started incentivising instead of punishing. This was difficult because people think you are rewarding and bribing them for just not being a shitbag but actually it teaches them that it’s an easier way to get the attention that they want. And it wasn’t buying material stuff, it was smaller things and focused on spending time together. I felt more confident in my approach when I read about it being used in specialist institutions for young people and it worked. He was on the verge of being expelled a year ago and now is doing really well, just done an early exam and is being recognised for hard work and good behaviour at school.

You can set boundaries and be firm and consistent without trapping yourself in a cycle of anger and escalating punitive actions - these do not work for all children or situations.

@Iyiyi what kind of incentives did you use?

The main ones were watching episodes of a tv series we started in lockdown, getting a McDonald’s breakfast before school, little stuff like that - he was on the verge of expulsion at the time so my priority was to keep him in school then work on further improvements. I had a brother who was expelled and it was really the worst thing that could have happened, he just escalated from there. Less focus on punishment meant there was less anger all round, and more opportunity to address why all this was happening in the first place.

Next time you have her phone put the parental control app on it- you can turn the phone off remotely and she can’t unlock it without a password which she won’t have 😄

If my kids refused to hand their phones over I would cancel their contracts. A phone is a privilege, not some sort if inalienable right.

Positive parenting methods are great, as is incentivising good behaviour - if there is a level of mutual respect. If there isnt they just seem like a policy of appeasement.

I agree about cancelling the contract. Or changing to one that has very very little data. That will run out quickly. Screen time if it’s an iPhone and if it isn’t it’s worth swapping to one for that reason IMO.

I think that if you are struggling and want some support from school, you need to think about exactly what you want. It may be that you ask a teacher to talk to her about what is going on at home. This may be enough to embarrass her into behaving but it may not. It sound like fairly typical behaviour in some respects but not in others. Slamming doors and being generally not very pleasant is not uncommon but pushing you and throwing things is on the more extreme side. I agree you should not be physical with her in any way and need to be calm, but you also need to be firm in your consequences. You can turn off the wifi and stop paying her contract. I would be tempted to sit her down when calm and read the riot act in terms of what you are not prepared to accept from her. Then stick to it. Switching off wifi for one night means nothing if she has a reasonable allowance. Turning it off for the week is much more annoying.

We have had the exact same problem with our son. And similar to what Iyiyi is saying above it has gone beyond normal teen strops.
It's a difficult balance with taking away phones etc because if you take everything away they feel they have nothing left to lose and behave even worse at home and at school. We have a limit on screen time at night and I put his WiFi on a guest network so I can switch it off from my phone.
It's all very well saying "turn the WiFi off" but sometimes I need the WiFi for my work or I actually want to watch a film myself using the internet.
However the guest network thing didn't work because last night I found he had hidden an old laptop in his room, moved our WiFi repeater into his bedroom and attached it via Ethernet, this bypassing the WiFi password/protection I had set up.
Basically he has proven time and again that he can't be trusted and the only way I can prevent him going on internet is to turn the WiFi off by unplugging the router.
We've had a massive standoff about this and it resulted in him making a hole in his bedroom wall, and breaking various things. We have weathered the storm and now he says he hates us but seems to have finally got the message that no matter how many tantrums he throws we are not going to allow screens at night (not that it prevents him trying to surreptitiously go online).
Also got problems with him not wanting to go to school. I have literally dragged him out of bed and downstairs and couple of times and told him that if he doesn't get in his school uniform he will be dragged there in whatever he is wearing, even if it's just underwear. I mean it, too.

I'm dreading the return to school next week. Which will be. 'Virtual' return... oh the joy of trying to make him do schoolwork on a computer which also has YouTube etc. Followed by an actual return where he's saying he can't go to school because his hair is not right (!). And he can't get a haircut due to lockdown.