Dd 15 stays awake all night

[Neverhavetoomuchglitter]

She has always had problems going to sleep. Since been about 10. She suffers from anxiety and has had several camhs referrals but nothing has really helped she just lives with it. During the first referral they insisted it was down to screen time and we immediately implemented the rule of no phone after 9pm. Did this for about 6 weeks and I'm sure those of you with difficult teens will understand the tantrums this caused! Nevertheless we stuck with it but it actually made her worse. She dreaded the nights because she knew we were taking her phone and still didn't sleep properly and was so angry every night it upset the whole household.
Any moving on from that she gradually got the phone back and told me it helped her as she read stories on it and as soon as she felt sick it distracted her etc etc. A few years passed and she was ok to a certain extent. She still told me she was awake til the early hours but she got up for school ok and it didn't effect her.
But fast forward to now something has changed and she cannot sleep hardly at all. Shes got herself into this cycle of using the phone as a prop to get herself to sleep but it's not working. She says as soon as she puts it down she physically gips and cant lay in bed and relax to sleep at all. She's coped over the holidays as she's eventually fallen asleep at 5am ish and been able to lie in but now shes back at school. Yesterday she told me she had had no sleep for 48hrs and is falling asleep in lessons. Her teachers all know she is struggling. Then she got up to go to the toilet at school, was really dizzy and when she came back she practically passed out. She had to get first aiders to her and was sent home. I took her to gp and of course I know they judge me and ask what she is doing on her phone all night, just put it down. The gp gave her some antihistamines that will make her drowsy. I have no idea if they have helped yet as I dont want to go into her yet. I told her she has to help herself and if she doesn't i will have to cancel her phone altogether but she threatens to kill herself and run away etc etc. She wont physically give me the phone and last time her dad tried to get it off her he had to physically wrestle her to the floor which you cannot be doing with a child that age. She says the phone is in night mode and has shown me how dark the screen is so its not the brightness that stops her sleeping it's all this vicious circle. Help and sorry that's so long!

I have real problems sleeping- and always used to have the telly on silent whilst i tried to get to sleep as a teen ( back when didn’t have mobile). I still have to have something on to go to sleep to now. Started off with audio books- would listen to the same one over and over- through head phones. Found the repeativness of the same book relaxing and not to engaging. Some times now just white noise helps too. You can get apps- I guess for babies? Maybe something like this might help? I find it hard to switch off my brain chatter and this distracts me. I have also down loaded and not yet tried some relaxation hypnosis apps which have fgood reviews.

If she’s reading stories at night then she needs a kindle, not a phone.
This will stop the flicking through social media, emails, photos etc.
Just a basic paper white kindle.

There's lots of stuff on YouTube or on Headspace or audible that works well.

I was going to suggest a kindle

She knows that this is a real problem now. She must realise that her phone (while it may have helped her initially) is now contributing to the problem. Rather than wrestling it off her, you need to sit down together and talk. Get her to admit the above. Brainstorm possible solutions (eg those in the above posts) together and agree to try on a couple of strategies that might help. The key thing is that you need to get her cooperation rather than laying down the law.

I am having horrible insomnia at the moment, due to a medication withdrawal. Things that are helping me are: valerian (not sure if it would be suitable for your DD, unsure of the age recommendations). Audiobooks (you can get free ones online from your local library, just look on their website & download the relevant app. You'll need a library card.) Also, insomnia podcasts.

If your DD prefers music, perhaps she could have a music track playing very quietly, you could probably help her put one together that's not got lots of really stimulating music on.

Your DD doesn need to realise that she has to take charge of this. It's not viable to play on her phone all night. A lot of the options above, she could be using the phone, & even physically hold it, but not need to look at the screen, I bet that would help.

I’d try melatonin. You can’t get it in the UK without a prescription but you can buy something in Holland and Barratt that converts to it. Screens can’t be the cause of staying awake for 48 hrs surely!

Also check what’s she’s eating has sufficient magnesium - big driver for sleep.

The calm app is brilliant too for helping me sleep

I realise it must be really difficult to negotiate removing the phone now, after it has been allowed. Particularly in light of the anxiety. I would say it absolutely needs to go though. It sounds like you are well aware the negative impact that lack of sleep is/will have.

I have a 15yr old dd. She isn't allowed her phone overnight, but until recently was having her iPad in. She listened to relaxing spa type music and says she simply cannot fall asleep without it. For Christmas I got her one of these sleep aid sound machines (it plays various nature sounds, white noise etc). The iPad is gone and she is sleeping really well now with this. Maybe worth trying?

Another one who’s always had issues sleeping. She needs some relaxing sleep sounds (maybe via an Alexa so there’s no phone to tempt her) a basic kindle and to put her phone down, maybe out of the room if she’ll be tempted. I find the difference in my relaxation when I don’t use my phone to read at night really marked.

This sounds awful OP. I've no experience but wonder if hypnotherapy or something similar could help.
Does she have a phone addiction? Is she able to put the phone aside during the day?

The current strategy of letting her have her phone overnight is clearly not working. Even on dark mode a phone is not constructive to sleep. I would remove her phone overnight so that she can’t access her social media or keep refreshing pages. I find it hard to switch off my phone because I find myself just seeing if there’s anything new on Facebook, then I check Instagram/ Twitter/ reddit/Mumsnet etc and by the time I’ve checked everything it’s been 30 minutes and I can start at the beginning again. The fact that social media is constantly updated 24/7 makes it very hard to switch off.

I agree that providing her with a kindle is a good idea if she wants to read, or alternatively a tablet with the wifi switched off overnight so she can pre-download webpages she wants to read but can’t endlessly refresh.

It must be very difficult to actually fall asleep while holding a phone.

I agree with others about listening to an audio book of a book she knows well.

I did that when in hospital after my kids were born. I found it difficult to get to sleep due to adrenaline, worry about the bsby, hospital noises.

The audiobooks kept me occupied but I could drift off as necessary.

The phone has to go. She needs to recognise that if she's been awake for 48 hours then the phone is not helping her sleep.

If she's that desperate to physically hang onto it, my first thought would be switch the wifi off.

Is it the sort that can work without wifi? If not, definitely switch the wifi off. Yes, it will inconvenience everyone, but only for long enough for her to stop her dependance on it. Make sure you're not near any wifi hotspots within walking distance.

How is she charging it? if it's on all night she must need to be without it in the day for it to charge, remove her charger and powerpacks etc. and cancel her contract. That way it will only last until her battery runs out.

Give her a kindle and something she can listen to audiobooks on. Maybe give her an old fashioned radio.

She has an alexa and I suggested she find something on that last night. Whether she did I dont know. Still daren't go into her!! She is very keen on the phone during the day but I dont think any more really than most teens. It's mostly always with her but she's also happy to leave it if doing something else. She also has loads of data that much she doesnt even use the wifi anymore. I would be happy to offer a kindle as an alternative but still don't think she'd be happy for me to take the phone!
I agree she has to come to a solution with co operation. I think she genuinely doesn't know how to.

I find reading a book is best for relaxing to get back to sleep. It's much easier and pleasanter to pick up your phone as sitting up and turning on the light when it's cold and dark is hard. Let alone getting up and out of bed and occupying yourself until you feel sleepy (which is what most sleep guides tell you to do ) and I use audiobooks to help me drift off once I'm feeling sleepier but have iPhone set to thatbookso I don't start scrolling.
The other thing is lots of vigorous exercise, preferably out of doors. We all know we sleep better when we're knackered.

A book is better than a kindle imv.

This could be me. I am very anxious and I cannot sleep without my meditation app. In the past it was music. I do yoga nitra at night using my phone and headphones. I didn't sleep at all as a teen because my mum wouldn't let me read in bed. I suspect this has roots in anxiety and she is using the phone as a crutch now because it has helped her before.

The phone needs to go at least 1hr before bed especially if she is so reliant on it.
No eating after 7pm
Do something relaxing 1hr before bed, if she likes reading then a real book will help her mind wind down from all the social media drama
Does she get out/exercise enough?

She needs to accept the phone will be there in the morning.

Or that's where I would start.

I'm so sorry you are going through this and 15 year old girls can be tricky to navigate. All the suggestions sound great.

One thing I would like to really emphasise. Smart phones are addictive in the same way as slot machines. The newsfeeds are designed to stimulate a reward system - just like a slot machine leaver pull. I really feel that in 20 years we could be looking back on this era in the same way as we look at people smoking in the fifties. Please read some of the work written by Tristan Harris. If your daughter was addicted to gambling you would approach it in a different way. So whilst I totally agree with all the suggestions and remedies to help with her sleeping - pls pls don't dismiss the power of the smart phone addiction - especially the newsfeed mechanisms and how this genuine ADDICTION is most likely at the heart of her distraction and unhappiness.

OP, this is a sleep disorder, and ideally she neefs referral for sleep studies and an expert in sleep to help her.
A lot of these suggestions form PPs are sensible, but if she is now not sleeping for 48 hrs or so, and it's affecting her daily life, it needs to be referred and investigated. Poor thing, she must be feeling wretched.

"Chronic sleep disorders in childhood, which affect some 70% of children with developmental or psychological disorders, are under-reported and under-treated. Sleep-phase disruption is also common among adolescents, whose school schedules are often incompatible with their natural circadian rhythm. Effective treatment begins with careful diagnosis using sleep diaries and perhaps sleep studies. Modifications in sleep hygiene may resolve the problem, but medical treatment is often needed."

Only Wikipaedia, I know, but there was a recent TV programme on looking at severe sleep disorders, and despite all normal interventions adopted by these people, they wete at their wits end and needed referral to a specialist.
I hope you get proper help

Have you been to the GP? They might be able to help if the problem is falling asleep, for example by prescribing melatonin which is a naturally occurring chemical in most people which makes us sleepy and sends us to sleep. Some people have trouble producing it or don’t produce enough so a prescription of it can be helpful.

I am sure there are other sleeping tablets which may also be helpful in periods where you’re getting on to 48 hours no sleep, but melatonin might be a gentle one to try first.

I have a 15 yo too, so I know how tricky it can be.

We are in control of their phones so that we can switch them off. They know that in the week, they are switched off an hour before bedtime.

I think there are some very sensible suggestions on here, I would be tempted to sit down with her calmly if you can and try to brainstorm ideas on helping her to sleep, literally write down anything you think of, for instance both walking the dog (if you have one) or her having a bath or doing some yoga.

She had to understand that she won't be having the phone overnight until her sleep is sorted and this time you mean it.

And I know you don't think she has a phone addiction, but I think it might be worthwhile to read up on it.

Try and get your gp to refer to a paediatrician at your local children's hospital. Some hospitals have a sleep service. Southampton children's hospital does.

I'm an insomniac and have tried many solutions but I would say that when you hear of success stories they have usually been done under the supervision of a clinic or doctor. Having someone else checking the times you went to bed, whether you used your phone, how much exercise you'd had in the day etc etc etc you're much more likely to stick to the rules and succeed at the new regime than when you are left to your own devices and it's too easy to cheat.
So try to get her on some sort of programme with experts involved.
Have never had a supervised regime myslef btw.

Does your DD want to be able to sleep and is she able to describe what she does on her phone all night when she's awake? Given that holding her phone no longer seems to help her sleep, I wonder what she thinks might happen if she doesn't have it?

Assuming she does want to sleep, it might be useful for her to look at basic CBT ideas such as jotting down what she's thinking when she can't get to sleep, what emotions she experiences and the physical sensations she notices when this happens. She could then look at what she does as a result e.g. scroll through Instagram, look through X app for a suitable story, turn her pillow over, huff and puff etc... which then feeds back into the original 'I can't sleep' bit. There are various self help books out there that take readers through the process but that's only going to be useful if she wants things to be different.

Helping her to access alternative strategies during the night may well involve you trying out some of the ideas others have suggested e.g. finding out if her Alexa can be used to take her through a guided meditation, rehearse French verbs, read a story. If she will accept support from you to do this together during the day (and you provide a written list of tried and tested Alexa commands for her bedroom), perhaps she'd agree to try one of them if she's awake at 1am, if not sooner. Having a kindle with preloaded books or even borrowing a whole load of not-too-challenging books of her choice from the library and having them next to her bed might be another distraction to add to her toolkit... along with things such as fluffy socks to put on, a nightlight projector to create patterns on the ceiling, a white noise toy like those given to babies and maybe even a SIM-less Nokia 3310 that can only play snake but feels similar to a phone.

Her need for her phone overnight isn't going to go away quickly but as it's stopped working anyway, helping her to diversify her sleep props and supporting her to try them out over a period of time may be a useful way towards challenging her belief that only her phone will help her sleep. I also wonder if it might be useful for her to install an app that will keep track of what she's doing on her phone overnight. If she's being distracted by constant notifications, she could make a positive choice to set up a do not disturb period or even have the phone set to only allow sleep-enhancing apps overnight (asking you to set a password on the parental controls so she can't override it at 2am).

I do sympathise; 15 year old DDs are hard work!