Is 14 “peak teen” ?

[SirVixofVixHall]

My dd is 14, fifteen in three months time. She is all over the place ! Very, very condescending and rude, particularly to DH, then apologises and is her old nice self for a day or so, then more stroppy, ungrateful, entitled behaviour. I feel as though I could and should be dealing with this more effectively. DH is upset as she is so unpleasant to him, and he has had a very tough year (bereavement).
She has had her ‘phone taken away for rudeness, door slamming etc, but it seems to make no difference. Her take on this is that confiscating her ‘phone doesn’t improve things, and that if we just left her alone and imposed no sanctions, that she would mull over her behaviour, feel guilty, apologise etc, whereas taking it away makes her angry and resentful.
She is very well behaved at school. She is at her worst in the mornings, but getting her to sleep on time causes arguments each night as she wants to stay up later and not be treated “like a little child”. If she does have a late night she is horrible for the next few mornings. She has a medical condition which makes her tire more easily, and can affect mood, which doesn’t help.

I am stressed by all the conflict on top of a very difficult year. I need the wisdom of mothers of older teenagers !

DS seems to be hitting his peak - he is 18 next month! TBF he has been like it for a few years.

DD is 15 and so far seems to be dealing with the teen years very well.

I was different as a teen, as was DH. Of course I was sometimes grumpy, ungrateful and argued with my parents, but I was never as sarcastic and rude. She was honestly more mature a year ago, which worries me, as she wants more freedom, but seems less sensible . The constant conflict upsets my younger child too.

To be honest, I think she has a point with the confiscation thing.

If an adult were rude to you, you'd have a discussion about it, wouldn't you? (assuming your base relationship with them is ok, obvs). The cliched hormone-fuelled snap at ones partner which one then apologises for, for example. The teenager has hormones all over the place AND hasn't yet learnt a lot of adult strategies.

Does she have blue-light-free time before going to sleep? Discuss the whole serotonin thing with her - that and the teenage body clock problem, so that she knows there's a reason for it which you both have to try to work around.

About a year ago (beginning of GCSE year) we "suggested" to younger son that we have a 10pm Screen Shutdown to help with our sleep. Somewhat to our surprise he accepted it immediately. Whether the fact that we presented it as something we would all do helped I don't know. It lasted till the end of the exams and we're starting to get back into it again.

She does have a blue light shutdown, yes. Part of the problem is definitely her health issue, as she has a wakeful patch at bedtime, due to her medication timing (she has auto immune thyroid disease).
I agree she does maybe have a point, but she says such unpleasant things to both of us, DH in particular, that I feel there should be consequences . Where it is an obvious PMT fuelled rant we do tend to Try and ignore it, but not all of it is that. She will also slam doors etc late at night, even though her little sister needs to sleep, and we have a next door neighbour with a young child. That in particular makes me ragey.
I am happy to take advice though, as I feel clueless as to how best to deal with this.
Like teens the world over, she thinks we are too strict, and I think we are not strict enough !

There is another great thread with lots of advice.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/3584550-Holding-on-to-the-end-of-the-rope-life-in-the-bunker-with-the-Po-Ts-where-parenting-a-teen-is-having-an-adverse-effect-on-our-mental-health

Thank you mcmeno5 I will go and read that.

I hate to tell you this, but as parent of 1 DD and two DSDs aged 16-22, I would say 15 was peak teen for girls And a large part of that is that it's only really from 16 up that you start feeling able to give them the autonomy they're craving.

I think you do have to pick you battles, and try to let them feel they have some degree of control over their own lives. Taking the phone away for rudeness does sound like the sort of punishment you might dole out to a somewhat younger child, and if your DH isn't in agreement with you on that it might be better avoided. Waiting til she calms down and then having a conversation about it might be better.

Is there a technical fix to the noisy door banging? How about those plastic clip things that stop the door shutting tightly (marketed to stop young children getting their fingers slammed in doors) If she's doing that because she's lost her temper and needs to learn other ways of dealing with rage - such as thumping a pillow.

My BIL had a door slammer of a teenaged daughter. After a particularly bad morning, she got home from school one day to find her bedroom was minus a door. You can imagine the wobbly that was thrown at that. After a few days, the door was re-hung. Whatever else she did after that - she never slammed a door!

There's a point at which I will not accept the rudeness. I had it badly from DD16 the other evening, and I looked her in the eye, and said very calmly, but very firmly, 'I have never tolerated you or anyone else speaking to me like that, and I'm not going to start now. Go somewhere else, improve your tone and your attitude, and rejoin us only when you are able and willing to treat me with the courtesy and respect you expect me to treat you with'.

She was quite taken aback, flounced out, and came back in an hour. Later in the evening, we were able to have a talk about why she'd behaved like that, how she felt about things, how I felt about things, we negotiated expectations, and ended up on a friendly note.

As to consequences, I've had someone be a proper little madam to me, and I've looked at them and suggested that I'm unlikely to be feeling amenable to ferrying someone to ballet, or riding, or going and buying art supplies, or ready meals that they like, for someone who is treating me like five day old shit they just found on their shoe. They got the point almost immediately, and changed their attitude and behaviour. Smart kids.

Sounds like a typical teen to me. My DD -17 - can be very sarcastic and i do tell her when she’s overstepped the mark.
If she’s too stroppy and sarky I withhold lifts, etc. rather than take away a phone or device. Unless the mood was linked to the phone use maybe. Sanctions should fit misdemeanours.
Now I get ‘I’m going to be an adult soon’ ! Which is true, but when she lives here she needs to abide by house rules and be
Civil. I was extremely generous about something last week and she did appreciate it, but it has caveats too.
I’m def going to try the speech from the poster above - I do find even when I ‘advise’ DD and she poo-poos it, the next day she’s doing what I suggested!!

We tend to do telephone confiscation, because I can’t think if anyother sanctions. She doesn’t often need lifts after school, she doesn’t often go out with friends as we are very rural and her school catchment is huge, so her friends can be over an hour’s drive away. They get together as a group occasionally, so I don’t like stopping her doing something social because she is a bit deprived in that area anyway.
We have had the odd tv ban, but then that means dd2 gets upset as she might want to watch something, but feels mean if her sister isn’t able to join in.
I could stop doing things for her, eg I iron all her uniform and get it ready each morning, but that seems harsh, especially as she has a lot if work on at the moment and gets tired.

Ideally , I would talk it over with her, and she would rein it in a bit. She is reasonable when calm, but not when in a temper.

Room door coming off wouldn’t bother her I don’t think, as she is on a different floor to everyone else. It is usually the bathroom door she slams, it is next to dd2s room, and next door’s smallest child is the other side, so she knows it makes me furious, hence her doing it. Sigh.

I suppose it is the fact her maturity seems to have regressed that worries me more than the rudeness. She has always been sensible, but less so now.

Don't worry op. This will pass. It sounds very normal to me although I totally understand why you are upset about it. I don't think teens mature in a linear fashion. It's two steps forward, one step back. My dd , who can also be shouty and confrontational, can behave in an impressively mature way most of the time, and be daft as a brush the next! Same with life skills: she can be incredibly organised and competent most of the time and then one day do something very unexpected and plain stupid! The book "Untangled" about raising teen girls (it was recommended to me on here) explains the cerebral processes behind all of this teen inconsistency.

Also, teens let out all of their internal stresses on us, because we are a "safe" outlet. My dd also likes to start an argument to divert attention away from the fact that she hasn't done chores (feeding animals) etc. It's quite an effective tactic because it makes me think twice about asking her to do stuff when she is so objectional about it! (Feeble parenting on my part I know but at the moment it just isn't worth the upset. I do intend to put my foot down a bit more when I am feeling stronger though.)

Our job is to remain calm and consistent in the face of all this angst. The best tactic me and dh have been given is to (a) not let it get to you personally ie do more stuff to please yourself; get back to hobbies etc so you don't give as much headspace to all the friction at home and (b) walk away when she is being rude.

DH and I don't engage in arguments now. The minute things get heated, we walk out of the room. On one famous occasion when dd was screeching at me, I walked out of the front door and drove off in my car wearing an apron with my hands covered in flour! She is getting the message that we will only address matters with her when she is calm and reasonable. She can disagree about something all she likes as long as she presents her case in a respectful and sensible manner. She is improving and her arguments are becoming more eloquent

I did used to take her phone away up to the age of sixteen, but after that. I think it creates more resentment than gratitude.

Most importantly, keep building up your relationship with your dd in other ways so that all of your interaction is not negative. Your relationship with her is the most important thing, and ultimately, when the going gets tough, is the bedrock that will keep her on track when she is outside of your direct supervision and when communication is difficult and things are generally tense. Unfortunately that sometimes means taking them out, or doing something as a treat, when you are seething with anger about something they have done (ie door slamming). But you have to find a way of starting with a clean slate every morning and trudging on. As some wise person said on here, when they are acting out the most and being the most difficult, is often when they need your love the most (or words to that effect)! Make sure she knows you are on "her side" as many teens think the world is against them ; it's their default setting in fact!

Having said all of the above, if my teen damaged property (for example , paint coming off a door because it is slammed) then I would , when everything was calm again, make them repair and paint it and the money for the paint would be coming out of their allowance.

One other thought; I think my dd was letting out a lot of her stress with us at home because she hadn't yet learnt how to be (politely) assertive at school. So she had a lot of "built up" anger and frustration that came bursting out after school hours. So working on building up their confidence and modelling polite assertiveness can work wonders too!

Good luck and don't let it ground you down

Sorry for the essay!

And that should have been "grind you down"

Dd was like this from age 14 - 15 and ds also around age 14. Both are quite pleasant now (ds is 15 and dd 17) and they also get along together well now

Looking back they could be vile and very hard to live with

Removing oneself from confrontation probably is the best way. I vary in how calm I can stay depending on how frazzled I am. So I need to work on being consistent.
Agree it is pent up frustration etc, combined with sheer bolshyness. She is bored at school, yet has so much work, so gets wound up, and then comes home starving and cross.

I will mull over all this advice, very helpful. Will also get the book suggested.

DS(15) is has been, relatively speaking, a pleasure so far. If 14 was peek teen that was a breeze! Although I'm reasonably sure we've still got it to come.

DNiece on the other hand was a nightmare from age 14 to 18. Regular screaming arguments with her mum, leaving home/coming back, room a health hazard, drinking, unplanned pregnancy/termination at 15, coming in at all hours, having friends round that stole from the house, police visits, skipping school so much meant she left without a single certificate etc etc etc The only thing, thankfully, she never dabbled in was drugs.

She is a lovely young woman now, has a very close relationship with her mum, and you would never guess the drama she caused!

ha, great term, looking at my teens, yes I think so. DC1 16 and a half is mostly ok now, works hard, lets me know where she is and when she'll be back. Does jobs for cash. DC2................ :-/

ps i need to put my money where my mouth is more often and turn off the internet. My son RAGES at me when I do this for a full hour, but eventually then he will cry and then if I keep calm and smile at him and offer him tea and act like it's no biggie being internet deprived and act like it's not bothering me at all lie and it's all his choice, no odds to me, eventually he will do what I asked him to do two hours ago.

If he hasn't moved out by the time he's 24 I'm turning off the internet.

slowchirp that is a very good point about building up our relationship in other ways. I feel upset and resentful and don’t want to do nice things with her, but you are right that keeping the closeness is key to weathering the difficult patches. I am thinking of taking her away for a weekend, as we did that last year and it was v nice most of the time.
She used to be so sensible and trustworthy! At a family party recently she kept badgering me to let her try some alcoholic drink...my face 😐🙄. She wants to be treated in a more adult way, but has turned into a giant toddler ! Absolute hysterics a couple of nights ago as she had spotted a large spider in her room... general eye rolling, door slamming, flouncing, fighting with her sister, telling DH he is “an idiot” , telling DH that the supper he has made is horrible, telling me that “everyone else’s parents let them do xyz”..... .. not all of it is extreme, but it does chip away at me, particularly the drama around getting ready in the mornings, and going to bed “no-one else’s parents make them go to bed”.... she goes to school and sometimes I just cry once she has left from the stress of her stropping around and shouting. It isn’t every morning, but still..My younger dd has been seriously unwell and is not yet alright, so when she then gets upset at the shouting I feel at the end of my tether.

I was grumpy with my parents as a teenager, but not at this level, my sibling was much the same as me. Grumpy at times, and enjoyed winding me up, but mostly ok. DH was similar. Today she is cracking on with work and very mature and reasonable, she is like the weather !

My children are grown up now and well past the teenage years. Those years were hard and my husband found dealing with the children growing up particularly hard. I know some posters on here may think this is crazy but we never imposed sanctions. We talked about behaviour, what it is to be an adult, shouted sometimes and argued etc but didn't wirhdraw lifts or their property I honesty think that would have just made it worse. It certainly wouldn't have changed their behaviour which was about controlling their emotions and coping with growing independence. We got through those years and I'm pleased to say my children are both delightful, responsible very caring adults.

I think it must be, that was an obnoxious age with my daughter and both my sons. Intimidating, stroppy, rude, generally horrible. It passed with the first two, it better pass soon with the third.

It's 15, sorry to say. You're not there just yet

15 ? So when they turn 15 they become wonderful young people again or is it nearer to 16?

My dd is 14 and is mostly delightful. She has her stroppy moments, for sure, but I just try to stay patient and not take anything personally. We don't do punishments in this house, never have. I think they would probably make the situation worse tbh. However, I do talk to dd about stuff and tell her when I think she has been rude or unreasonable. That's usually enough to prompt an apology and then we can both get on with other things.

I think teenagers are naturally inclined to push back against their parents a bit, so having lots of sanctions for stuff just creates an adversarial relationship. I want dd to know that we're on her side. We do expect to be treated with courtesy and respect but accept that she has her off days, just like the rest of us, and that she is still learning to develop the coping strategies to deal with those times.

I'm prepared that the moodiness might crank up a bit over the next few years, but my aim will be to patiently support dd through these difficult years until she comes out the other side. It's what my parents did for me and dsis, and neither of us had major rebellious phases.

A little mutual respect goes a long way, so I'd say pick your battles and ditch the punishments. Talk to her about behaviour that you don't like instead.

15 is where its at its worst @minimomtogiants. Peak teenage hormones and behaviour. I'd say that whole year is one of dodging bullets for us parents

14 was the worst of it for us. Both my DDs were bullied in Yr9, which made them worse at home. Once the bullying was sorted by the school (which they did very well once DDs were persuaded to report!), things got better. Maturity and sensibleness seemed to set in at the start of Yr10. DD2 was the easier of the two, but that was because by that time we were neck deep in their dad's problems and the three of us had to stick close.

They're 16 and 18 now and are both lovely.