Is my daughter a bully?

[IsMyDaughterABully]

My daughter took me aside to make a teary confession that she is violent and a bully. She is doing really well at school and isn't in trouble with the teachers.
On a near daily basis she gets into fist-fights with the boys in her friendship group. She assured me that she doesn't call names, never is violent with girls, and doesn't target one boy in particular. Because she's female, the boys don't fight back, so she hurts them more than they hurt her. She says she has gained a reputation for being violent and the boys try to goad her into lashing out.
She is strong and has always been more into rough-and-tumble than your stereotypical girl (never one to sit and colour, or play with dolls), and although violence not acceptable, I'm not sure what she has described is bullying. But she certainly feels terribly guilty that she is - and needs some tools to control herself. Any pointers would be appreciated.

She knows these boys won't fight back so she hurts them harder and does this "On a near daily basis"? yeah I would say she is a bit of a bully to her friends to be honest. It's good she's come to you about it though, maybe she'll need some help with controlling her anger to stop her lashing out when they goad her - I'd also look at speaking to the school to discuss these particular boys who are trying to egg her on for a fight.

I'm not sure bully is the right word, she sounds more like s violent thug. Totally unacceptable, don't care if they goad her she shouldn't be regularly raising hey hands to anyone.

She sounds very violent and its not acceptable. I think you need to get to the bottom of her anger. One day she may lash out at the wrong person who will really hurt her.

She sound like a thug and she is lucky she hasn't been reported to either school or the police.

I would say she needs anger management.

Whatever you label her as, the behaviour is wrong, very wrong, and that needs to be dealt with seriously.

Fist fights daily at school and no teachers or staff have noticed?

Have this fights been uploaded to social media ?? I would bet they have been
Where and when do these fights take place ?

I don't think posters piling in to call her a "violent thug" is helpful at all.

This dynamic between her and her male friends sounds more complex to me, and quite toxic to all of them, but especially to her. I think she needs some counselling to explore her self-image and to understand how this violent cycle has come about. I would also be looking at ways to change her friendship group - what year is she in? Would a change of school be possible? If it's a crucial year and she can't move, I would be talking to the HOY and pastoral team about what can be done to make changes in school.

Where is this happening? If it's in school it will have been noticed by staff. I wonder if she has been told that if there's any more fighting they will speak to parents. That might be why she told you first.

Look at self defence or something similar where she can learn the right way to use her strength. The fact that she’s spoken to you about it is great, try to keep her talking. Make it clear that her behaviour is unacceptable, explain that one day she might go that little bit too far and that could have life changing consequences. I’d also contact her school so they are aware of the situation and can monitor it. Although tbh @Fairenuff could be spot on, in which case you’re being played and should come down like a ton of bricks.

How old is she?

I don't mind the pile on. It illustrated how easy it is to get a reputation!
Thank you for your interesting questions - it's always at school, usually lunchtimes. She's been taking lots of lunchtime activities to avoid the problem, but due to staffing changes, she's not been able to hide away this term. I asked her about videos, and she says, no, she hasn't been recorded, because that's against school rules. I pointed out that hitting is also against school rules, so it's only a matter of time before someone records her. She agreed that if such a video of her were to go viral around her school, she would feel humiliated.
She's year 8. Genuinely, I don't think the teachers have a clue. At her parent consultation a couple of weeks ago, all the teachers' eyes lit up when they spoke about her, and described her as a model student.
I asked her to recount a typical incident. It might start with a boy stealing her or a girlfriend's bag, or maybe by calling her a bastardised version of her name which they know upsets her. If she doesn't rise to it, she gets asked if she's scared. This continues until she fights them. So this morning I watched with her the youtube video "how to stop a bully", which is based on the premise that bullying is a power game, and asked her what she identified with. She said that it starts with the boy taunting her (much like the aggressor in the video), but that once she retaliates she feels like she is the one with the power. As though she switches roles.
I think she is mistaken, and that she loses the power game when she lashes out; the boys probably think it's funny, and that's why they continue. I think the counselling idea is a good one, perhaps via the school. She's tried accessing an anti-bullying chatroom, but has spent entire lunchtimes not getting through, as the queues are long, which is why she came to me.I'm not going to come down hard on her, because she came to me for support, not for punishment, and having a teenager who's prepared to speak to her mum is quite a precious thing.

She tearfully confessed. She’s asking for help and although it isn’t ‘nice’ behaviour, I do not think the situation you describe means that she is a bully. She is not the primary aggressor. She is not unprovoked. She has got stuck in a role which seems to have begun, at least initially, because she responded physically to defend herself or a friend from verbal attacks and from having her things stolen. Boys are now trying to illicit a physical response from her because it amuses them. I think this makes her a victim.
She feels bad about it and knows it’s wrong. She’s just stuck now. I think that because of the provocation, you may need support from school, or at least to put them in the picture. Is there a teacher or other staff member that she trusts?

She is beating up boys kids she considers to be friends ? Yeah she needs help she is clearly struggiling with something i would contact her pastoral support at school today!

I have spoken to the school. There is no suggestion that the teachers have spotted any behavioural problems, but they have provided me with a range of options for counseling/support to help my daughter break the cycle.

Thank you for your help Mumsnetters!

Well done for being right on it I hope you can get her helped and she learns to keep her hands to herself

She tearfully confessed. She’s asking for help and although it isn’t ‘nice’ behaviour, I do not think the situation you describe means that she is a bully. She is not the primary aggressor. She is not unprovoked.
Would you say the same if we swapped he for she?

He is not the primary aggressor. He is not unprovoked.

If a boy admitted regularly punching girls because they taunted him would that be met with this much sympathy?

Whilst it's not ok to be violent at all, I remember when I was at school there was a girl like this and the boys were quite clearly bullying her as they knew she would get aggressive and they thought it was funny. I hope this isn't happening to your DD. Are these boys actually her friends?

Some help with anger management would be good and if they are her friends she needs to have a chat about how she doesn't want to do that anymore.

I don't think that it's appropriate to swap the sexes, as @weetabixandshreddies suggested, because this situation is only as it is because she's a girl. Otherwise the boys would hit back.

Yes, @Lost5stone, that's exactly what I think is happening, but she is blaming herself for it. As other posters have suggested, anger management is needed, not only so that she doesn't hurt other children, but also to break the cycle.

Are the boys her friends? Good question. She describes them as 'in her friendship group'.

I don't think that it's appropriate to swap the sexes, as @weetabixandshreddies suggested, because this situation is only as it is because she's a girl. Otherwise the boys would hit back.

Yes, @Lost5stone, that's exactly what I think is happening, but she is blaming herself for it. As other posters have suggested, anger management is needed, not only so that she doesn't hurt other children, but also to break the cycle.

Are the boys her friends? Good question. She describes them as 'in her friendship group'.

The only way to accurately assess if she is a bully or not is to sit all the boys down and ask them how they feel when she punches them and why.

If they're collaboratively using your daughter as banter between themselves and they all enjoy it, then they are not being bullied.

On the other hand if they goad your daughter into attacking boys who don't want to be attacked, then yes, she is bullying those boys.

If she hurts them more than they hurt her, then that doesn't matter in the former case, because the boys don't mind. However in the latter case it's important because she's attacking boys who feel unable to strike back at her, and they get hurt as a result.

However, and this is super important, just because she is not a bully does not mean this is normal or healthy or acceptable behaviour from any them.

OP my point was if it was a boy punching a girl and someone said your statement about him tearfully confessing, being sorry no one would really excuse his behaviour by saying that he was provoked and was not the primary aggressor.

Are the boys laughing at her? Is winding your DD up a sport to them, akin to bear-baiting? Does the boy who is the current punchbag join in willingly as part of the sport, are they forced into by the friends or is your DD targetting someone individually? Is she actually injuring people?

It sounds like a really toxic situation. I would go to the school and ask for their support. Your DD needs to stay away from this group for a while, so they can move on and find new ways of entertaining themselves. Are there any lunchtime clubs she could go to, a library to tuck herself away, anything the school can offer? Anything to break the cycle while she learns new ways of dealing with her anger.

There is a girl like this in my kid's year - she quite troubled, trans sometimes - violent towards the boys and only particular boys who seem to view it as sport. I think you need to speak to the Head of Year and get some counselling for your dd. Good luck op.

Give her some tips to go on with whilst you sort counselling out.

Tell her to agree with them. Sounds mad but they have no where to go with it.

You're stupid - thanks for telling me, I'm too dull to work it out myself.

You're scared- yes. Thank you for noticing it.

You're ugly - I know. Can't help how I was born.

Your not giving in to them you're being clever and stopping them in there tracks.

They take your bag - thanks for holding it. It's a pain carrying it around.

They threaten to throw it. I'll have to report it if you damage it as I can't replace it.

Tell her also to use the silent approach.

They say something mean she says nothing but just looks at them. They repeat or goad her. She says nothing. It's human nature , we don't do silences. If you continue to be silent the other person will babble on filling the silence. Then without realising they backtrack as they can't deal with it.

Give her strategies. Practice them at home. Have some fun doing it. Take turns being the boy or her. It really works. It's doing for the first time that's the hardest.