I'm at my wits end!

[WeakLeftFin]

DD is 13. For the past 2 years her obsession with boys has spiralled out of control.
She has never found it easy to make friends, but over the past couple of years has had say 1 or 2 close friends at a time.
And for weeks it goes great. Until a boy comes along.
She will dump her friends for this boy, then when that goes sour she has to start over with trying to find new friends.
We have banned boys completely.
So we go into this thing where she can't go out for weeks, she cries, apologises and weeks pass with no issue.
Then she will do something. Get caught in a boys bedroom, in his bed.
Kissing another boy and getting a bit fruity.
Stalking another boy. Following him to lessons, waiting for him to finish after school activities.
She's even gone as far as to get her friends to message them and MESSAGE THEIR MUMS!
Trying to get on her new BF's brother (17) - This happened this morning.
With regards to the boy and his bed, the police were called just as a precaution warning to her (and him) as she was only 12 and he was 14.
We have had her in counselling the past 8 weeks which ended on Thursday. She was so loving and so different (to our face) but it's clear boys are her major priority.

Can anyone shed light on what to do? Or been in this position before?
She doesn't have a phone but has access to a tablet. She isn't on Facebook but is allowed Instagram.
She isn't allowed a phone because when she did, every day was something (and no I'm not exaggerating)
Her older sister walks to and from school with her (she's a year older) so she can't run off and meet these boys.
People told me when she was 11 that it was a phase.
People told me at 12 she would calm it down.
Now she's 13 and getting a right name for herself.
I've sat with her so often and told her she doesn't need boys. That she should concentrate on her studies/herself. She deserves to wait and have her pick of lovely boys when she's older.
It doesn't make a difference. At the time she nods and agrees and smiles. And for weeks she's like my old girly. Then, it's like having a bitch on heat! Any boy, every boy. An age, any looks. It doesn't matter. Even if they are taken!

It gives me bad anxiety every day. I hate it. I hate knowing now that she's lost another friend (who will no doubt tell everyone why they have fallen out) because of a boy. I don't care if she cries/kicks of because she can't get to them. But I worry the lengths she will go to.

Is her dad around? Are there any permanent males in her life?

blackcat86
Yes I probably am over reacting, maybe I should let her figure these things out. That's why I'm asking for help/advice. If she didn't take it to over the extreme then I wouldn't have high concerns.
(I probably drip fed this whole thread so apologies for that)
I have allowed her before to go out, have a bf, friends, phone etc. But then I got phone calls/texts from these boys mums. Saying she is calling them because 'boy' isn't answering. Can I tell her to stop. Can I tell her to stop turning up at 'boy' after school activities. And then the whole sexual contact with a boy in his bed. Apparently other kids were there and that was a whole fiasco with online abuse, name calling towards her.
This is when I think I became too involved maybe?
We live in such a small village as well and I'd hate the fact she would have more things around here said about her and make her life more difficult.
She will come to me crying that this girl 'called me a slag' 'this girl said she is going to beat me up because I told her bf to dump her and be with me'
It was a never ending drama of these girls threatening her, of leaving nasty messages (hence why no FB or phone - they used to call all throughout the night and broadcast it on FB and tag her for everyone to see)
I was happy when she was with one boy. He was very polite, very charming. Great little fit. But he was the one she would stalk, call his mum, his friends, his after school clubs etc.

I'm happy to take anyone's point of view on this.
I'm on here to get as much insight as I can. As they say, there isn't a parent book for all of these problems than can arise. I want to do what is best for her and make her a happy young lady.

Yes her dad is around. She also has a very close r/ship with my granddad. She has uncles who pop in now and again too.

They have turned me away from having any thing like that done for her.
They said she is absolutely ok - even when we presented them with evidence and their evidence too. Because she caused a massive shit storm 3 years ago accusing her dad of pulling her by her hair and punching her. Oh that was police, SS etc. Turned out DD was stealing pencils/pens and making people give her money for the stationary shop. Teacher caught her out. DD dropped that bomb. DD admitted was a lie. I pushed again for assessment. Turned down.

As I said. I probably drip fed a lot through this as I really wanted to talk about the 'boy obsession' because when you are told over and over by professionals there is nothing wrong with DD, then you believe it somewhat.
I did mention there was more to this story with her other than the boys but the boy thing is a fresh Sunday morning drama.

Hi, I do not think you are over-reacting.
One thing- have you tried to change your doctor? It is very easy to do. Perhaps the current one isn't aware of autism issues and I get a feeling that your current doc isn't really aware.

This was me at her age :(

As soon as I hit secondary school I was obsessed with boys. My parents found out I’d had a sexual act performed on me at lunch time at school aged 12 and I lost my virginity aged 13 to a boy I’d never even spoken to before that day. I would regularly go to boys houses at lunch time at school for sex etc. I would lie to my parents constantly about where I was and who I was with so I could be with boys. Even after being found out multiple times. Once I had access to the internet it became boys I met online. I remember being 16/17 and meeting a man in his 30s from a dating website and having sex with him in the back of his van in a multi storey car park (fairly certain this was consensual but I imagine it would still have happened anyway even if it wasn’t).

I really didn’t do well with girls. Had some very very close friends up until about aged 14 but would consistently choose boys over them and lost them all. The way a boy could make me feel just completely outshone anything a female friend could do for me.

This behaviour led me to becoming a teen Mum so I would be very wary of that if I were you. I knew about safe sex but I chose unsafe sex over and over again. I chose teen motherhood.

Every day I try and work out why I was like this and I feel that deep down it must have been something to do with my parents (I’m not blaming them) but I didn’t have an affectionate childhood, no kisses or cuddles or ‘I love you’ so I think I was just trying to find some affection. I’m not saying this is the same for your DD but I feel there must be a deep rooted issue and something missing somewhere that she is trying to get from these boys.

Also to add I had a terrible name for myself and really really suffered at school because of it. The bullying was horrific and eventually I moved school after I lost the last of my friends.

You are absolutely NOT over reacting.

But you need to go back to these professionals with all this information and tell them they are failing dd and failing to safeguard her from harm but not helping.

A different doctor or different organisation may be a good place to start. Someone onside who will fight with you

MNisforlosers I completely 100% know where you are coming from. I think there maybe has to be somewhere buried deep, I'm just not sure what. DD doesn't like hugs - she goes stiff and its uncomfortable. We aren't a very huggy/loving family but I always say Love You (she doesn't say it back often)
She says she doesn't want to be a mum (but is ever so happy roleplaying still with a baby) and I do think she would ultimately find herself in a position where whether she wanted to, changed her mind etc or not, sex would be happening with her. I really worry she could get pregnant. You're story is so relatable on all accounts,

I'm going to ask for her to see another GP tomorrow and go back in with bullet points and demand someone sees me who isn't going to fob me off. I know her being diagnosed wont change her but there might be other openings for her to get help. I'm not sure.

I wish I had an answer for you. That I could say do this and it’ll fix it. I also had and still do have terrible terrible low self esteem which wasn’t helped by the awful relationship I had with my mum. Boys were the only thing that could make me feel good about myself.

I hope it works out for your DD and I would be more than happy to write something for you to show her, as an adult who has been there to tell her how the rest of her life could pan out if she keeps this up. Good luck.

It sounds like it's become quite a sensitive area for both of you. If a girl called her a slag that's obviously not nice but teenage girls would probably still call each other that even if she was utterly repulsed by boys. I would take every opportunity you can to have open and honest dialogue with her. A girl calls her a slag - have a chat about feminism, friendships, respect etc. A boys mum calls - talk about healthy relationships and boundaries. Are there other adults around she can talk to? It can be hard for young people to talk to their mum's sometimes. Has she seen healthy relationships modelled?

Could you both do activities together to boost self esteem depending on what she's interested in?

Mnisforlosers Fancy PM'ing? Or to personal?

Absolutely fine!

She 'acted' upset by the name calling blackcat86 but it came across she was more upset with the losing the boy thing.
We are buying her a bike for Christmas, so we are going to ride together, Just me and her. Time to sit, chat etc.
She does have other people to go to but we can't always .. rely on her to tell them the whole truth anyway.
She talks to her older sister but its always a twisted version of the truth.
She likes to start her sentence of with 'apparently' this happen. When it did.

The girls I have known like this have either been on the autistic spectrum. One also ADHD. Or had an attachment disorder.
I would ask to be referred to a specialist who diagnoses girls on the autistic spectrum.
The other thing to consider is do you think she has ever been abused? Sorry to add this. It might be worth a call to nspcc for a chat and advice as to how to protect her

Like the PP...this was also me at the same age.

I absolutely loved boys, craved their friendship and any sort of attention from them. I lost my very best friend because I convinced her boyfriend to go out with me rather than her and then ended up sleeping with him (I was 15 by then though)

I felt 100% more comfortable with boys than I did with girls though which I feel contributed to how I behaved. I also had massively low self confidence and really overbearing parents (which Im not saying you are btw) and I was almost trying to prove how "cool" and popular I was.

I'd also consider attachment disorder. Was she premature? Hospitalised for any length of time? Did you have PND? Were you somehow unavailable to her for a period of time when she was younger? Was there any DV? All of these things (and others) can affect the way that a young child/baby attaches to their primary caregiver. Any difficulties in these areas can lead to attachment disorder/developmental trauma. If you look for the "Coventry grid" it compares ASD and attachment disorder

It was noted that she was obsessed/attached very much to me. Always has been. She was premature yes, 4+ weeks prem. Was in hospital for a week with her. I was 17, vulnerable myself and alone (true fact, I actually had her alone. No family. Just a midwife.)
I was diagnosed with BPD from 16, and I probably did suffer with PND. I still cry just about her now.
Her friend has now broken up with my DD over this. DD is angry that she could do this. It isn't fair and she doesn't seem to understand it hurt the friend.
I've spoken to her so many times, every time this happens with her friends and a bf. I try so hard to stop her seeing it just from her point and start seeing it from her friends. That they have feelings to and wont be around if you keep treating them this way.
It feels like she is never going to learn. So then I lean towards a problem.
I mean, I know I would have shit my pants if the police, social worker, GP etc all talked to me.
Now I feel bad because tomorrow will be shit for her at school because of this needing the brother.
Eldest DD is trying to talk to her now but it's never going to sink in until it's too late. Pregnant?

This sounds like more than teen hormones.

Hypersexualised behaviour like this could well be indicative of (sorry but I think it irresponsible not I mention) abuse or a mental illness or even rarely certain physical conditions.

What counselling is she having? If she were my dd I'd want her seen by a psychiatrist NOT a psychologist.

A psychiatrist is a medical dr and while their focus is on mh (and if this is the issue will be better placed to give an accurate dx) they are also trained in other areas and are more likely to consider possible physical causes too.

On the off chance - had she had any falls or bumps especially of the head in the period immediately preceding when this started? Any other physical symptoms that might seem unrelated but coincide time wise? A virus even? Does she have epilepsy?

On the mh side had she suffered a bereavement or similar trauma just before all this started?

The lack of boundaries is also concerning.

This sounds more like compulsive sexual behaviour.

"She told the doctor she couldn't help herself." Yes I think definitely a psychiatrist preferably one with specific knowledge in dealing with hypersexual girls/women.

With your comments about you noticing something "not quite so" since she was 5 I wonder if a neurologist might be a more apt route to go down.

What's her eating habits like? Does she self regulate there? Answered before I even posted.

What made you think autism?

I honestly think you need to get her to a neurologist. It's not my field of expertise but this is ringing bells with me relating to a boy I encountered when I was doing my nurse training who I was warned about before the rotation. Not as in warned off but to protect myself (reputation and future career not physically - he was still very young 8 or 9) it's driving me nuts I can't remember what the cause was (over 20 years ago) but he was being treated for iirc a neurological condition. The condition itself wasn't harmful but had been Dx and it was more the "side effects" were the issue - unable to regulate eating and he was very overweight as a result, he was also a risk taker and had injured himself as a result and was starting to become hypersexual too (hence the warning to a young inexperience trainee nurse). Sorry I can't specify but it may not be the same condition - or even any condition I could be way off!

Ask your Drs receptionist to make you an appointment with a GP with an interest or experience in neurology.

Focus on these:

• Inability to self regulate food intake ⁃ Extreme risk taking behaviour ⁃ Hypersexuality ⁃ Lack of ability to enforce personal boundaries or recognise those of others. ⁃ Hyperactive personally generally

And I'm sure mners will add others they think necessary

Same as MNisforlosers - I was very like this (although I didn't dump friends really) and I think it was down to the same thing, lack of affection and love at home and the fact that I found it difficult to be affectionate myself so I could only express it sexually. I just wanted to be loved and feel safe.

I agree wholeheartedly with the others who have said asd or similar. If this were my daughter I would be pursuing private diagnosis and once that is in place specific counselling with a psychologist specialising in her diagnosis. It sounds very worrying.

Can you afford to go private? There's some great assessment centres who are completely spot on with recognising neuro development disorders in girls.

Lorna Wing and Margo (something) spring to mind.

My DD was just like this was a nightmare, she didn't change boys though she had a 2 year relationship from 12-14 then another 14-16. Her relationships were like addictions it was hell and she had to be near them or on the phone to them constantly. She also picked "bad boys" so we all suffered at home with nightly rows and tears.

Thankfully she has been single 18 months now and seems to have no interest at all in boys now and says she wants to stay single, she has friends now too.