How would you deal with this?

[IStandWithPosie]

DS (13) has been having some poor attitude recently and swore at me earlier this week so I confiscated his phone, tablet and PSvita. He had shown better behaviour the rest of the week so I allowed him his phone back today but I said he had to allow me his password first and I wanted to check his phone as his behaviour recently hasn’t been good and I suspect there is maybe a new friend or something going on that he would rather I didn’t know about. He refused and has taken his phone. He became extremely possessive of it and raised his voice to me saying it was his personal business. He won’t give it to me and will probably hide it tonight when he goes to bed so I can’t take it when he is sleeping. I’ve taken the router for the internet so he can’t go online and I don’t think he has any credit or money in his bank account to top up. I told him his behaviour is leading me to believe he is hiding something from me but he denies this. He is probably deleting all incriminating stuff as I post this.

What do I do now?

It’s not just MN though newsofa I see things shared all over SM from the police, teen programmes, therapists, support groups etc saying to check their phones, chat groups etc. To know who they’re talking to. Lots of local parents share these things too so I can only assume they are following the same advice.

My DC didn't have phones at 13. We live close to their school so it wasn't an issue and we had a spare phone if they needed it. When they were older 14/15 ish I had parental controls set up so they couldn't delete or add apps or delete their search history etc etc I also had find my phone set up.

I think people that don't check their 13 year olds phones and don't have parental controls set up are making a big mistake. I know some kids are ok but it's not worth the risk.

BTW, I got my kids to sign contracts when we gave them new phones/laptops etc. They were lighthearted documents but serious too.
They earned my trust and their privacy as they got older. Luckily they are all the type to chat to me if they have problems etc.

OP, I would be really concerned about your sons behaviour. Refusing to give you the phone is very worrying. I'd get the phone off him somehow then set up parental restrictions. If it's an iPhone it's easy. You need to be in control of his phone not him. There are loads of guides on how to do it online.

What if he is watching porn or beheadings or other unsuitable things. Some parents may be cool with that but I wouldn't be.

DS refuses to give me his phone at night. I’ve tried a few different times but he refuses and I’ve let it slide. Maybe I should have been more insistent. I never seem to get the balance right.

He's 13, and perhaps he's got a girlfriend or a mate that he texts/rings? Give him some privacy. Unless he's out and up to no good or you don't know where he is, give the kid a break.

His phone is an “imo”, not an iPhone. If I get it off him I’m not sure I could get beyond the password to set up controls.

lynne he has had total privacy on his phone. I don’t routinely demand to see it. This is because he’s been behaving out of character and developed and mean streak. Im not going to ignore that.

I think it depends on your relationship. I would have dove the same in his position. Not because I had anything to hide at that age. I just didn't like my mother.

It could be something serious, but it's more likely he's talking to someone about a girl or the fact he thinks he likes guys or that he has the worst mum in the world. You know, normal stuff that in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter but means everything to him.

My DD is not allowed to change her passcode number and her access to phone/internet is dependant on us being allowed to check it if we need to.
She was rather indignant that this was a condition but we explained why and she accepted this.
OP as you don't really have much chance to physically take the phone, I'd suggest a conversation and don't let your DS wriggle out of it. My DD finds it easier to chat while we're doing something, like walking the dog, so you can talk without it being so intense, a friend of mine takes his son for a spin in the car when he wants to talk with him. Would something like that work?

I know in all likelihood there will just be normal teen chat but I don’t think it’s his decision whether I see it or not when I ask. He doesn’t get to decide what rules he follows and which he doesn’t. Or he does, but there’s consequences. Otherwise what’s the point in me even setting any rules if he can just ignore the ones he doesn’t like?

He's 13, and perhaps he's got a girlfriend or a mate that he texts/rings?

Or perhaps he's looking at hard core porn or watching extremely violent videos.
Or maybe he is sending dick piks to his girlfriends....

The problem is that you don't know unless you check. Some 13 year olds are idiotic and do really random dumb things.

No one cares about a bit of swearing or rudeness - that's not what matters. It's the extreme stuff that's the problem along with keeping an eye out for online bullying.

Yes I could try that beamur

Yes that’s it cupmug. some teens do really worrying things without realising.

Bloodyhell, there's some really dodgy advice on this thread. Give your 13yo DS privacy because he might have a girl friend? He's thirteen. He needs parenting. My DC know I might want to do a spot check at any time. I backed off with DS1 when he was 16. I hardly ever look, but if they refused to let me, it wouldn't be topped up. Simple.

Oh perhaps I should say that the controls on my dc phone means they cannot be watching porn/extreme gambling etc.
That does make a difference.

One thing that strikes me about all your posts though, is that he is in control, not you.

I do give my kids a lot of trust and privacy, but the bottom line is, I am the parent and if I confiscate your phone, then I will confiscate your phone, and you will hand it over. I rarely use it, but they know I can and will for serious behaviour infringements.

I think you need to have the phone downstairs at night.
I think he needs to understand that the phone is a privilege, and not a right. Bad behaviour will lead to phone loss.
Bad behaviour can mean shitty attitude to parents. You don't have to like me, but in this house basic respect in how we talk is how it is. You speak to me like a piece of dirt, and you will lose some privileges. (but on the other side, I do sometimes chose to ignore some ranting when they are cross/upset/tired etc)

It is incredibly hard with teens finding that balance between parent and independence. It is lots of trial and error. But underneath I think they do feel a certain relief that you are still in charge.

One thing that strikes me about all your posts though, is that he is in control, not you.

That’s what it feels like right now. He can just refuse to hand it over and there is nothing I can do. I have the chargers and router and he has no credit so he is limited in what he can do with it but bottom line is he has chosen to ignore me and gotten away with it.

It's hard.
Focus on what it is you're trying to achieve, which is making sure he is safe and not doing anything stupid. Conversation is a starter.
Having boundaries and you both being clear about why they are there and the consequences for not respecting them is your next step.
I have 2 older SC's in their 20's and one DD just in High School.
With older kids you can only get so far with sanctions, it's a balance, you are their parent though, not their mate.

As I said, it is really tough trying to find that lone between independence and parenting a teen. Don't beat yourself up. But I personally would do the following:

step one, phone runs down until it is out of battery/money
step two. Do not top up/replace etc, set a time before you will even discuss it, eg one week.
step three - tell him the week is up, and now you will, together discuss the phone issue. Unless he agrees to your rules, no phone, and no money to buy a phone.

The result of the discussion is an agreement

1. phone is a privilege
2. Mum reserves the right to look if she is worried, used rarely, but there
3. If mum asks for the phone and doesn't get it within 10 minutes, then it is automatically not topped up for 1 week/1 month after it runs out
4. phone downstairs on charge every night. No phone? Phone doesn't go into school next day. Won't hand it over? see point 3.

ds is 15 (nearly 16) , and none of this would work with him now. I wouldn't try it even. Phone is only removed in very extreme circumstances.
But dd is 13, and for her and when ds was 13, that was the control we had.
Not to be mean, but to be the parent. In fact I rarely checked, but they knew I could.