No idea how to handle this: massive hostilities between DD and DS, dangerous aggressive driving!

[thunderbee]

[Apologies this has posted as a massive block of text; I can't get the box to format]. If you manage to wade through any of this and reply, very grateful!Currently I have no idea what to do, would be grateful for any advice.17 yr old DD and 16 yr old DS (2 of 3 teenage siblings) locked in hugely hostile silent treatment since Friday, when DD was out for friends' 18th, and DS bumped into their mixed group in town and joined them. (Both siblings in the same school, DS socialises with a lot of the boys in DD's year, so this is isn't per se an unusual thing). DD didn't want him with her group and he refused to leave, and was, according to DD, 'being an aggressive prick' to another boy in their group. DD told me tells me that this was all prefaced by another party she had been at - another 18th - the night before, where she got off with a boy; DS, having heard about this on social media, apparently texted her to tell her she was 'disgusting' (god that makes me angry just writing it down). Boys in DD's year teasing DS for his sister having got off with someone from what I can tell, but I have DD's word only for this though, no evidence and I haven't asked to see. DD was really upset by this, completely understandably and so didn't want DS out anywhere near with her and her friends; the boy to whom he was being aggressive was apparently the boy with whom DD got off. DS refused to leave ,and in fact stayed with the older group even when the couple of friends of his own age had headed home and even after DD had come back (in tears). Lots of stuff kicking off on social media apparently, and DS 'shaking with rage' (why?) in school at the boy (2 years older than him) whom DD kissed etc. DS when asked about any of that night says, 'I'm not saying anything, there's lots I could say but DD won't want you to know and I'm not telling'. Fast forward to this morning, when I knew 0 about this back-story (which DD has told me just now). Odd atmosphere between the two of them was all I'd picked up on;. DD driving DS to school as they both have an early club. DS, usually really slow to get ready, there on time waiting for her to bring the car up. He puts his bags on the back seat and slams the door, and in a nano-second DD drives off at a ridiculous speed, leaving him on the pavement completely stunned - if his hand had still been on the door handle he would have been really badly injured, and at that pace in a 20 mile area if someone had stepped out in front of DD she would have caused huge damage. I was furious. DS phones DD, who comes screeching back up a few minutes later, DS gets in, and DD screeches off again way too fast. They are clearly shouting at each other in the car, but to me it looks like a clear mistake - DD thought DS had got into the back seat and drove straight off. The level of aggression and hostility between them is mad; but now they are both in the wrong in my eyes, DS for his horrendously sexist policing of his older DD and demeaning comments and macho posturing as some other poor guy, and DD for really dangerous, careless driving that could have caused a serious injury. Where do I even start with discipline/sanctions/interventions? So far I have actually only heard DD's version of events, DS is in such a foul mood I can't get anything useful out of him apart from dark intimations that the situation is far worse than anything I could imagine.....Any thoughts? Even the dog is looking morose this evening, the atmosphere is so fraught.

There are two entirely different issues here.

1. Dangerous driving, and you have dealt with that already by confiscating the car keys. She has to learn that she must never, ever drive like that, whatever the provocation.

1. The disagreement between them, well you need to get to the bottom of it and treat it completely separate from the car thing.

You've already taken the car keys so that's dealt with.

Why was she left in a position where she expected/was expected to have to drive him anywhere? Especially when she has been so distressed by him? The driver undoubtedly holds the responsibility for how they behave behind the wheel (not condoning in the slightest), but I think she was let down by either not being told she wouldn't be driving him or feeling able to refuse.

Your son's conduct, on the face of it, has been atrocious. While your DD has got lucky and not caused damage to property or person, the same cannot be said for your DS - he has taken a huge chunk out of his sister and caused her serious distress (which she then didn't manage well). I'd be down on my DS like a tonne of bricks, if he continues with this behaviour a lucky escape for his sister will be the least of his concerns. I'd be looking for some training for him about different kinds of abuse and the impact it has, he would also be banned from car keys for as long as his sister - his conduct demonstrates a lack of emotional maturity.

Thanks to everyone on this thread, very helpful indeed. Have got somewhere near to the bottom of this; the text was 'It's disgusting', not 'You're disgusting', and apparently was meant to refer to the drunken state of DD and her mates who were puking in the boys urinals, and which DD had posted on her 'spam' Instagram account. Not great, but not as bad as it seemed in terms of DS's policing of DD. DD has apparently been telling all the boys in her year, with whom DS socialises, how much he hates DS (how helpful). Boys in DD's year had been encouraging, as a joke (what kind of joke is that ffs?) DS to get physical with the boy that DD had got off with. DS agrees that he was posturing but that it was all a bit of a joke amongst the boys and he was never going have a pop at the other boy, as he plays on a couple of the same sports teams as him and gets on with him fine. DS claims that DD was shouting in his face at him to go away when they were all in town, and that he dug his heels in because he didn't see why he should be ordered around by her. DD says that she objects massively to him being part of her friendship group, she doesn't want her personal life mixed up with his; I get the impression that this is quite awkward for both of them at the moment, an DS is involved in sports teams at school a couple of years up so doesn't have much option but to be socially connected to boys in DD's year. On the up side, an uneasy truce has broken out at home, and I think that they are both at least ashamed now of their behaviour towards each other. Thank you all so much for your wise words, very insightful esp. on potential jealousy between sexually active (apparently not 'fully' DD was keen for me to know [DD has a habit of over-sharing!]) DD and heavily male bonded DS ("mates before dates" according to him). Roll on their 20s...

Hi Andro, thanks for your thoughts - in fact DD wasn't asked to drive DS and I offered instead since they weren't speaking to each other at that point. It was DD who said that would be ridiculous (we would have been taking two cars to the same place at exactly the same time for the same activity), and since this made my life much easier (I could then get on with getting DS2 ready for school) and she offered, I didn't turn her down. But yes, it wasn't a great decision by either of us it turned out. And it now seems that DS's behaviour wasn't quite as bad towards DD as it first seemed; DD hasn't disputed that when I ran DS's version of the original text past her it wasn't quite the same as what she had said to me; she hasn't disputed that the horrible laddish stuff was across the board from boys in her year as much as just from DS. Seems it was as much about what DD and DS heard behind the words they said to each other, and read into each other's actions, as about what they actually said and did. And each of them wants me to find the other one 100% in the wrong or they're just not satisfied...

I think I would want to talk to ds.
he was pretty out of order in several places, and he needs to know that he was.
gatecrashing your sister night out = not on
refusing to leave when even your own friends have left = not on

But can I just say, they are 16 and 17. My ds is 16 in december and there is no way he will be out drinking on a Saturday night! Are you actually supportive of your 17 yo dd getting illegally drunk in a pub on a Saturday? And your 16 yo joining her?

He doesn't get the right to comment on her social life (that is your job) and he doesn't get the right to put anything on social media about her either.

I would go about this gently, trying to get him to see her side, younger brother muscling in on her space.
And talk ot him about balancing the friendships with older boys and crossing the line into her social group.

You could praise the sentiment behind it, protective of her, is a nice thing to be, but not when she doesn't want protecting.

I would suggest you mention they can put their names down for a council property as you aren't living in those conditions any more.
Or a hostel.

R.E the underage drinking thing, now that is very fraught. No, I don't condone it at all. We are one of the few sets of parents that doesn't crack open a beer with the sons from age 14 onwards at home on a regular basis, or supply booze for parties. However, we have to be realistic - we don't send them out drinking, they drink when they are out, mainly drink supplied by other parents whose children of the same age. DD was drunk at the first party clearly, but did not drink at the second; DS hadn't been drinking at all when they met up in town, and both have been clear with me about this and backed each other up. My MiL was an alcoholic and this has caused damage that reverberates down the generations, so we are not permissive on this, but puritanism with them would lead either to them lying to us, or being really secretive so that we would not know what had gone on if the worst did happen and they needed to go to A&E.