Suicide - tried twice - will third time be lucky??!!

[Carolethepom]

My dd has tried twice in the last few months to overdose and I am terrified that the next time (if she tries again) will be successful. She was admitted into hospital again on Friday as she was seriously depressed, she lives in a shared college house with two other girls. She doesn't talk to me. Each attempt has been when other family plans have been arranged....is it an attention seeking issue??

I really feel for you. if she is in hospital, then she should be assessed? Has she been offered counselling? It may be attention seeking but if she has been diagnosed as seriously depressed, then that may be why. What were the family plans? maybe she is worried about what is going to happen at the family gatherings, or what everyone will think of her and say to her. I hope your dd gets better soon, and that you are ok and get the help and support you both need.

Carole, so sorry to hear this. If she's ill enough to be admitted to hospital, then it means she isn't thinking rationally. Attention seeking as a description is (even if you don't mean to do this) blaming someone for what they do; but if you are experiencing mental illness, you aren't being logical enough to think 'if I do this, this will happen'. It's like a black cloud, that fogs your thinking (at least that's how my mother, who did have clinical depression, described it. Her brain just didn't work and she forgot all sorts of things like how to park the car ? just couldn't remember and ended up in tears, in the car, trying to cope and being unable to.)
I don't have direct experience of this myself, and I'm not qualified to offer you any advice, but I imagine Titania's right and she's worried about living up to the events ? maybe she thinks she's so awful she'll cast a black cloud over them and you'd be better of without her there (however awful and irrational this is, of course you want her, but despair makes people think these things). I think all you can do is offer her lots of reassurance and support. Are the doctors talking to you? Can you get any advice from them? Can they suggest how you can help her? Do they have a care plan in place? Sorry, lots of questions but I do hope they are helpful in some way and I do hope your daughter gets the professional help she needs. Is it possible for the hospital t organise some talking therapy for her, as well as or instead of medicine?
HTH

My daughter took an overdose a year ago when she was 13, all discussed on mumsnet, take a look here

Hope that works, never tried to do a link before.

Things are much better with dd now but it has been a hard slog and she still has bouts of depression. I will keep an eye on this thread in case you want to discuss things in more detail.

By the way, I am Janstar, but I changed my name a few weeks ago!

Thanks for your thoughts. DD is being assessed by a Psychatrist. We had a 1 hour session at the hospital last night and I was told that DD has been hearing voices in her head which have been telling her to harm herself. She is on medication for this and anti-depressants. The doctor expects for her to be in hospital for a few weeks. Apparently she finds it hard to express her thoughts verbally but is good at expressing them in poetry. I am struggling with it all and have taken today & tomorrow off work. I am seeing my GP tomorrow to talk to her. I am so frightened that I am going to loose her. Her father has nothing to do with her and hasn't for the past 2.5 years. her brother lives with him and I am alone with the dog! The ward she is in at the private hospital is for mental health patients and has a daily weekday program for patients to attend. The public hospital here in Tasmania was not any good to her as they put 16 years olds in the childrens ward with the babies, which doesn't go down well with someone who is trying to be an "independant"!

Really tough for you carolethepom. I hope you are finding support with us, but as time goes on you might want to find a support group in real life for relatives - even/especially if your dd gets better, comes out of hospital and never has another problem (which I very much hope is the case). This is really hard to deal with on your own.

It sounds like a really good hospital she is in. It's a tough age to get well treated - I worked at a hospital here where the 16 year olds went in with the adults - I'm not sure which is worse!

Poor you Carole. I know how terrible it feels to watch your child suffer with depression. The voices in her head at least provide some form of explanation for what she has been doing I guess. Is it a form of schizophrenia? Have you been given a proper diagnosis? Have they told you how successful this medication is expected to be?

Please go on posting on mumsnet. This site is fantastic for support.

Carolethepom: so sorry, you must be out of your mind with worry. No useful experience to offer at all - just my very best wishes, and admiration that you have sought and provided the best care for her.

Had another private meeting with DD doctor today and gave her a bit of background. Seems that the internet chat rooms has a lot to answer for!! The doctor says as she is only 16 (17 next week) then she doesn't want to make a diagnosis yet as she feels the voices in her head may just be her guilty concious and her just thinking too hard! Apparently she is angry with me as she feels I have neglected her as I have spent a lot of time with my man over the past year. I always felt from her that she wanted me to go away for the night to his house so that she could do whatever she wanted....including staying on the internet or phone....obviously I got it wrong! Do we ever get it right???

Carole, I was chatting to a friend last night. She has studied psychology and is dd1's best friend's mum, so she knows my dd well.

She thinks that teenage children hit out at their parents because they know that they will take it and still love them no matter what. She is a special needs teacher and has seen pupils who are delightful all day in school hit out at their parents in any way they can. Like a complete personality change when the mother came in the room. She thinks that a teenager will think about it and find the thing that is going to hurt you the most, and use it to beat you over the head.

In your dd's case it could be that she knows this relationship is important to you, so she hits out at that. My dd still insists she can't stand my dh, even after 7 years together, and as everyone who has met him will testify, he is the loveliest man and a wonderful stepfather. She knows if she criticises him it hurts both of us a lot.

It would be best not to let her have any influence over your relationship with him, he is special to you and you should be allowed a life of your own. Soon she will be grown up and no longer your responsibility and I don't see why you should lose the chance of love and a happy future yourself to satisfy a whim of hers.

I often find when I am struggling with my dd that what she really wants is for me to be firm. I am reluctant to discipline her since I was hit a lot as a child and verbally ridiculed by my mother and I would hate to think of her feeling as hurt and abused as I did. So I end up being too soft with her. On the odd time when she really goes too far and I ground her, she suddenly becomes pleasant and approachable - it's quite bizarre really, as if she were crying out for a firm hand. Perhaps they need the feeling of safety when an adult says to them, 'Listen here, I am the adult here and I make decisions about what will happen to all of us.' It takes a whole lot of responsibility off their shoulders.

Your doctor's not yet making a diagnosis sounds quite level-headed, she evidently wants to check out all the possibilities and make sure the treatment is appropriate. What will happen in the meantime? will dd see other specialists who will help your doc formulate a diagnosis?

I must admit also that my dd has been a lot better since she cut down her internet time. She used to spend hours and hours on msn but now she has cut it right down she fills her time with more relaxing hobbies like cardmaking and reading. I think we are gradually getting there with her but it has taken a long long time and my poor dh has almost had a breakdown in the wake of her illness and other events. I'm looking forward to the day she begins to grow up and see my husband for what he is. It will have all been worth it if she realises she loves him one day.

Thanks Anorak it is good that someone else (a complete stranger at that!) sees it the same way i do. I know dd likes my man as she says he is the best one I have ever gone out with and she has fun with him.

The doctor says she is just treating dd for the depression at the moment and for the voices in the head, so dd is on two lots of medication, which are given to her at night as they make her sleepy. DD has to attend the program at the hospital which includes art & craft, group meetings/discussions, walks etc. These groups are on every weekday in the mornings and again in the afternoons. She even attended one yesterday on Depression!!

I am not seeing her today but I rang her earlier. I cannot cope with going in everyday, especially when she doesn't really talk to me. I have to constantly ask questions to find out whats going on! I will be taking her dog in to see her tomorrow as there is a small fenced in garden there where she can sit with her. She loves her dog...probably as it is company for her and she doesn't tell her what to do!

Thanks again for you words of wisdom...they mean a lot to me at the moment.

It sounds as if you are doing the right things to me. It might be a good thing that you don't go in every day, I understand that in some of these types of treatment they like the patient to be left with them to rest completely. If you can be a better more patient mum for taking a break then it's all to the good.

I used to go out with a Tasmanian guy, he was gorgeous, one of the great loves of my life. (Don't think I am one of his though ). Aaah memories...still I am blissfully happy with my dh now.

Keep posting, won't you?

I just wanted to change my name for this. I thought I'd share my experience with you, as it may be of help. Sorry if it isn't, as I know every case is different. I tried to commit suicide three times when I was going through my teenage years. I did it as I was very depressed, and the stress of bullies and exams got too much for me. I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone about my problems, not even my mum, as she had my other siblings to attend to. I felt very much an outsider whilst growing up and had no real friends that I could trust. I had a negative outlook on life, and like your dd, I expressed myself through poetry and art as it was the only way I could talk about it. I use to say that my mum was never there to listen to me, but I knew she was. I just thought that she wouldn't understand what I am going through. I use to spend a lot of time on the Internet in chat rooms talking to people to try and get attention from people, and to feel wanted. I didn't feel like I was in RL. I wouldn't say I had voices in my head, but I did think too deeply into things, and turned simple things into far more complex situations that would depress me even more. I went through quite a lot, such as my dad leaving us, my siblings picking fights with me, my mum and I arguing, bullies at school, my best friend and my grandmother past away, and all this whilst I was doing my exams.

I really feel for you, and I hope your dd will come out of this okay. I think the only thing I can suggest is to let her know you're there for her, even though she may not want to tell you anything. I think the only thing that helped me cope was knowing my dp was there for me, and that he loved me no matter what. It is a terrible thing for you to go through, so do try to get support for yourself as well as your dd. I am sorry if I haven't been of much help. I will be thinking of you both.

Saw dd today, took her dog into hospital for her to see. She was much happier today. Talked about her college work. She loved seeing her dog. No talk yet of her coming out as it is school holidays at the end of next week and the two girls she shares the house with are both going away for the two weeks break. So it would not be good for dd to be at her home on her own. The doctor talked about her coming home to my house but I don't think dd will think of that as an option!! She might surprise me though!
I am finding that the messages you all are leaving me very helpful, thanks to you all.

Looking back dd has never really had many friends, just a couple of good ones during high school which have gone their own way now dd is in college. So, I suppose she has had to start all over again which would have been hard with adjusting to college life at the same time. College here goes for a couple of hours longer than high school each day.

Will keep you posted on progress.

Hi Carole, glad to hear dd is feeling better. I think the friends issue is important. If you read my thread about my daughter's overdose you will know the extreme circumstances which would be enough to make anyone severely depressed. Despite all this the acute factor she blames for her overdose is falling out with school friends.

I don't know if this is out of line, so I apolgise if it is. I deal with people who OD on a daily basis and most are completely fine. On average we get about 2/3 in each day admitted and A&E gets far more. The bodies natural reaction to an overdose is to vomit, so nine times out of ten people just vomit the pills up immediately and there is no real damage done.

Paracetemol has an antidote which when administered within a 24 hr period will prevent any long term damage, aspirin and ibroprofen can be flushed out of the system by pushing fluids or by IV fluids. Generally if you do overdose and don't vomit within around 4hrs you will start to show symptoms of the poisoning, its impossible not to notice and its actually pretty annoying for the person trying. A lot of our patients bring themselves in because they expected just to fall asleep not to feel incredibly sick and hot kwim?

Has she been told the effects of ODing? Blunt honesty work very well with teens, it might be worth having a dr discuss the real effects of untreated self poisoning (its quite nasty).

I know this doesn't get to the heart of the problem, but its more of a practical pov...

Attention seeking is a term often used in a very negative context, my own view is that if you need attention so badly that you harm yourself you deserve the attention and obviously something is very wrong there...is she actually wanting to die, or does she want everything to go away, there is a huge difference between the two IMO. Does she have a mental health nurse that she can see when she leaves hospital? They can offer a more human and sympathetic ear than psychiatrists sometimes.

This is so long, but if you would like to talk more about this please contact me as I would be happy to give you any info you want :)

carolethepom sorry havent read all the thread but people do jump to the conclusion that its attention seeking when alot of the time its not my ex my ex was a manic depresive and my dp suffers with depresion and never has it been attension seeking the reason your daughter wont talk is because she beleives nobody will understand what she ging through and unless you've been there you wont ive been there and its a very lonley dark place to be i would get her into counciling and get her on medication but make sure somebody gives it to her on a daily basis until things start to improve i would also contact people like mind and talk to them there there not just for the person but the family as well and they will talk you through the best way to deal with the situation because the hardest thing is some times you got to just step back another good thing if you were both willing is to join something like a yoga class hth as i know what its like from both ends my heart goes to you and you daughter big hug and kis to you both