grief

[Marie0]

I have been having an awful lot of problems with my DS who is 13. Problems including truancy, bad behaviour whilst at school, vaping, smoking weed (once) general aggressive behaviour in the home.

His behaviour has been deteriorating for several years and has just been getting worse and worse.

As a result we have had many meetings with the school which include changing his timetable to accommodate only being taught by teachers who are 'nice' to him as opposed to teachers who immediately see him as 'the naughty kid' and are waiting for him to do the slightest thing wrong so they can either send him out to get rid of him and or shout at him which is a trigger for an angry outburst from him. I appreciate this greatly as even though we've only been back in school one week, we have had no hiccups so far and he has managed to get through the week reasonably stress free.

Here's the thing.

Due to all his behaviours we have had many interventions which resulted in a therapy session yesterday. I spoke 1-1 with the therapist and divulged that there had been a death in the family 5 years ago (my Mum). This was a massive red flag for the therapist and she strongly implied there were unresolved issues with grief. Looking back I don't think I dealt with this situation at all well and feel racked with guilt that his behaviours could have stemmed from me not dealing with this appropriately.

At the time he was 7 and my DH and I decided that he and his younger brother (5) did not really need to go to the funeral and be exposed to a lot of very upset people. We wanted to shield the boys from the horrendous stuff we were dealing with as a family. My Mum was dying of cancer and I didn't want their last memories to be of her dying in a hospital bed, I wanted them to remember her as she was when she was healthy.

I of course was there for the boys, keeping a close eye on them asking if they were ok and wanted to talk but to be honest I mainly carried on as normal as I thought 'normality' and 'routine' was best for them.

Since yesterday however when the therapist asked how the children were supported in this situation I feel maybe I should have done something that I didn't, and now feel it's all my fault my DS1 is behaving as the way he is due to unresolved issues with grief.

I feel utterly distraught. Has anyone been in this situation or advise what I should do next - I will also ask the therapist what I should do now moving forward.

Thank you Marie

Sorry just wanted to clarify my mum died July 2013 when he was 7 but was 8 the following month in August 2013 hence the slight overlap with dates / age

Can't offer a solution but know this was a horrible situation for you to be in. This is not your fault. You did what you thought was best, both for you and your children. You can only continue to do the best you can for your DC and counselling is a step forward.

Thanks Karatema, I hope he will open up to his counsellor

Do you think unresolved grief is the reason he is so challenging?

Was he very close to your mum? It is all very well her suddenly jumping on this information and deciding it is the cause, but what evidence is there to show that?

It certainly will not have helped, and if she was a central person in his life, may indeed be the trigger. However, it might just have been a factor.

And you are absolutely not to blame. I am very unhappy that she has left you feeling like this. A good therapist in her position isn't there to apportion blame but is there to unpick issues.

Please do not obsess about her comments. I am sceptical- although I'm a stranger and not a psychologist, that it is all about this.

I find that my sadness or stress greatly affects one of my kids. So when I am going through hard times, even if I am dealing with it in a reasonably healthy way, he gets angry with me. It stems from feeling worried and sad for me, anxious his primary parent is struggling, and anger is always his default reaction.

However that doesn't make it my fault or his. It just means I am aware I need to talk to
him appropriately about how I am coping and reassure him I am ok and getting help if necessary.

You were open about her death and gave them the chance to talk. These are all positive things. It sounds like you did the best you could in a difficult situation. Please please please stop berating it blaming yourself

My child has SN which makes dealing with emotions tricky. He had some CBT during which i was with him as he didn't want to do it alone. We had discussed one of his worries as an illustration of his generalised anxiety to show how it made life difficult - she would not let this issue go. All she did was focus on it and he got less engaged and more defiant the less she would listen. It ended up a waste of our time. This was a consultant psychiatrist in CAMHS. Therapists aren't all good and what suits one person won't work for another.

Discuss and investigate his and your grief but be open to other causes and triggers. And don't blame yourself. Not only will it destroy you and is totally misplaced, but it won't help him. It will shift the dynamic of your relationship into an unhealthy one if the whole time you are feeling guilty and wretched and as though you have failed him.

You haven't. You sound like you are doing brilliantly and listen and care.

How was school for him when he was younger. Were there problems with impulsive and self destructive behaviour before? Did he struggle with friends and teachers?

Thank you Somany, your post has made me feel sooo much better.

The more I think about it the more I think this (loss of my mum) 'added' to the problem rather than created it.

DS1 has always been a handful from as long as I can remember, quite defiant, difficult, inflexible etc. He has never particularly liked school or 'rules' but as soon as he hit 11 when I think his hormones were kicking in it all went A LOT worse. (which of course was only 2 years ago so 3 years after my mum passed).

Also around that time (5 years ago), we had a lot going on with DS2, he was struggling with health and developmental issues (only 1 kidney was functioning - but nothing too serious), he had a stigmatism in his eye and his legs weren't developing properly which meant a lot of trips to hospitals / clinics. He also had problems with following instructions and complying to basic ways of life such as getting dressed and going to school - he later got a diagnosis of autism.

I think this also made DS1 somehow feel 'left out' maybe. Of course I never intentionally paid him any less attention, may be in his mind I was somehow favouring DS2 as he had all these appointments and taking up my time.

Again I've been beating myself up about possibly 'neglecting' him somehow during that time but deep down I knew I didn't.

Both boys were close with my mum, she was amazing - like Mary Poppins. She left them both memory boxes, which DS2 will occasionally like to get out but DS1 does not. Similarly sometimes we will happen to drive past the cemetery and DS2 will ask to stop to 'say hello to Nanny'. Again DS1 does not want to do this and I do not want to push it. I just worry it's all bottled up and he refuses to talk - that can't be good. Sometimes DS2 will be a bit tearful and say he misses Nanny, I say I do too and we have a cuddle. Then within literally 30 seconds he'll be 'So what's for tea?' lol his ASD really makes me chuckle sometimes!

With regards to school early on - he has never liked it, has a real problem with being told what to do (this of course worries me), just not interested - not then, not now.

The more I think, the more I think a lot of his behaviours would be there regardless of my mum passing - but think it definitely exaggerated by this.

I also worry that all his anger is aimed towards me, but I think this is probably normal for teenagers to vent at their mum as we are their safe person. They know it doesn't matter how badly they treat us, their Mum will love them unconditionally so again this is possibly completely unrelated.

Thanks again, I'm not going to dwell on anything.

OP, I think you are very wise in your decision not to dwell on this. To my mind, there is a big difference between acknowledging that one or other event in his past may have been a trigger for a sensitive child and blaming yourself for "causing his problems".

I have a dd (now adult) with fairly severe anxiety/MH problems. Her latest psyche evaluation suggested some PTSD-related reaction from the way her physical disability was mishandled by her school and that may well be so. But we knew her before then, we had concerns about her from when she was tiny. Like her physical disability, it means not that one particular incident is the clue to everything going on, but that any one incident may have effects they wouldn't have on somebody else.

Fortunately, the people who did her CBT were very good: they helped her to focus away from things that had happened, accept that this was an ongoing problem, and concentrate on techniques that would get her through day to day. Which is what CBT is supposed to do.

@Marie0

It is very interesting that you say his brother has autism. Your DS1 sounds fairly similar to mine - he has ADHD with asd traits.

I was wondering whether to mention it but didn't because I didn't want to introduce it without more reason. However his anger and struggles with authority, little ability to deal with negative emotion without becoming angry or defiant(school issues "mean teachers"), risk taking behaviour and self destructive behaviour (drug taking, probs at school). These are all very typical of ADHD. It has so many cross overs with asd, is a very common co-morbidity and also commonly seen in families which have asd in relatives.

People don't understand ADHD on the whole. It is still seen as the naughty kid disorder and a sign of poor parenting. None of those are true. It can be so debilitating and destructive and often the kid is labelled as a trouble maker and this obscures the real diagnosis.

Is ds2 seen by CAMHS? Have you discussed ds1 with them? I would ask for an assessment if I were you. I may be totally wrong but I'd rather be wrong than remiss for not mentioning it. Please understand none of this is said in judgement. My son is lovely in so many ways. But the ADHD makes life very tough for him and us. It needs different handling than one would probably use for a NT kid. Look into it and see what you think.
Try to leave any preconceived ideas about ADHD and perhaps look at Dr Tom Brown (US specialist) or prof Charles Barkley. Dr Ross Greene is very good too.

I'm very sorry you're having a tough time 🌸 I'm not sure if that would have caused the problems but I think it could be contributing. I was 5 when my maternal grandmother died and quite understandably I was not allowed to go to the funeral. I was never spoken to about how I felt or how it affected me and it was all very much swept under the rug from me. I don't even know to this day what she died off. It's been 20 years and I still have some resentment about how that situation was dealt with (my mother has since passed otherwise I'm sure that would have been resolved). It came across to 5 year old me like my feelings for my granny weren't important or even real, and so I didn't count to be upset about it. It made me feel unimportant and irrelevant to the family unit, as it seemed to me like my grief wasn't considered at all and my love for her wasn't even worth acknowledging. My loss was mine to deal with alone, at 5. I think you're clearly a wonderful parent doing your best so I hope my words don't hurt you but perhaps give you a glimpse into how that maybe felt to him, and may give you a better understanding of if that event is a contributor to his problems. If he's attention seeking, I would bet it maybe has something to do with it.

Narco - thanks for the reply I’m sorry to hear you had that experience.

So many - gosh I don’t know where to start - I have often considered there are definitely traits of ADHD, also from what I’ve read bits of ODD and PDA.

His problem with authority has always been there - he doesn’t give a monkeys who you are! We have had a couple of times I’ve had to call the police and and quite frankly it’s embarrassing when a PC is trying to help and explain why he shouldn’t be behaving in the way that he does and DS1 simply shrugs, acts bored and basically can’t possibly see what all the fuss is about. He clearly can’t stand most of his teachers and if they dare tell him off he tells them to F off and /or gets up and leaves the class room (although since going back to school he’s been ok).

Risk taking behaviour- well I just don’t know where he’ll stop - you name it he’s done it, drinking, smoking, drugs, - I sincerely hope he hasn’t had sex yet!

And consequences - well he thinks they don’t apply to him! He has no grasp of thinking ahead or determining something maybe a bad decision because X, Y Z could happen. It’s impossible to discipline- he either does his ‘punishment’ and then goes on to repeat the same bad behaviour very soon afterward or simply refuses to accept consequences. E.g we try and ground him and he’ll just climb out of the window and go out anyway- in the summer we blocked his Wi-fi as a punishment and in the middle of the night- he decided he wanted to watch funny YouTube videos but couldn’t because of the lack of Wi-fi so simply left the house and walked to his mates who did have Wi-fi- I mean seriously who does that at 2 in the morning? He reaction to all of these is ‘we are over protective’ parents and ‘need to chill’. I could go on but I’d end up writing a book!

He briefly saw a trainee Ed Psych last term through his Youth Worker who says he has definitely issues with anxiety which tranfer to anger (presumably he doesn’t know how to deal with feelings of anxiety and becomes frustrated), he has been referred to CAHMS but I understand there’s a very long waiting list.

Thank you for your recommendations I will definitely look into that, also you’re right about overlapping ASD traits e.g he can’t stand labels in his clothes - even though they are not next to his skin, and certain noises really annoy him e.g my car will beep until the seat belt has been fastened.

Thanks again for all the support it’s really appreciated

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more.

You are a great mother. It sounds as though things have been very difficult for a long time.

How would you feel about posting on the SN board? They are extremely knowledgeable. Incidentally, ODD is created/triggered not something they are born with. I also think that it can muddy the waters and almost be used to prove the kid is a PITA and needs to buck up. (Not criticism of you - just be careful about discussing that with school). It is very misunderstood and although my son scored for it when first diagnosed at 7, he never did again once he was out if the school situation that was destroying him. It is very much a reaction to circumstances so important if he does get diagnosed with ODD that they look at the cause and what is behind it.

Is your ds2 seen by CAMHS? I know they are so overwhelmed but I wonder if you could get him in via the family connection? I don't think he can afford to wait a long time and neither can you.

Also, I'm sure I was just unlucky but the Ed Psych that saw my kid had very little knowledge about ADHD and suggested a totally inappropriate therapy.

Have you contacted Young Minds? They are a charity for young people and are very good apparently.

PDA does sound like a possibility. I know very little about it - the SN chat will be much more help. Also mine has all those sensory issues too. Makes sorting out clothes for ds2 tricky as I cut all the labels out when ds1 had them!

Good luck.

I’m sceptical about the psychologist’s assessment.

Hopping

I too am sceptical of the assessment, the ed psych was a student in his final year so not even qualified yet, let alone experienced so possibly not a great assessment. DS1 has a Youth Worker and has said school have put him 'top of the list' to now be assessed this term (by a qualified ed psych) so hopefully that will shed some light.

SoMany - Yes I think I will probably post on SN board. It's interesting what you say about ODD being something that is created rather than already there. In which case I really don't think he has ODD. I need to do some more research into ADHD as you've said it is a really misunderstood area - and could really do with some tips on how to gain back some control as at the moment I feel he (DS1) controls the whole household.

We went through the Cahms system when DS2 was 5 -7 (long time frame due to being lost in the system and them frequently cancelling and postponing appointments) Finally got a diagnosis when DS2 was 7 - DS1 was 9 at the time.

The reason we were there for DS2 not DS1 was that DS2's behaviours became more obvious from a very early age that something wasn't quite right including developing little routines and rituals.

These included having to sit on a certain side of the car, refusing to sit on a mat with the other children in nursery - he would have to have a 'special chair'.

He was also 'sensory' at a very early age spending hours, sifting sand from one hand to the other or going outside to 'feel' the grass by carefully running his fingers from the bottom of the grass to the top - he went through a phase of collecting cardboard boxes and refused to go anywhere in the car unless we could take them with us (I had to keep putting them in the boot LOL.

Later on when at school he would have more difficulty following instructions and would sit in the corner pulling the elastic out of the top of his socks as he would somehow find this comforting. He felt the need to collect all the bits of BlueTac off the walls so he could put it in one big ball and safely keep it in his pocket.

I think it was safe to say it was pretty likely he was on the autistic spectrum!

However,

DS1 was never that 'bad' (obvious) at a younger age - he clearly didn't enjoy school or being told what to do but he was no where near as defiant or controlling as DS2. DS1's behaviour gradually deteriorated in a subtle way and we just thought he was being a 'bit naughty' (as did his teachers), it was only when he was 10 / 11 he went full on with his aggression, anger and blatant refusal to conform to either our rules or that of the school. (Presumably his behaviours were heightened by the onset of puberty).

Although we always mentioned to whoever we were seeing at Cahms (for DS2) that DS1 also had issues, we rather naively thought we couldn't possibly have 2 children with SN issues - how unlikely! Of course, since then I realise it is actually far more common that siblings can have SN , I think I maybe brushed it under the carpet subconsciously as I was maybe a bit overwhelmed with DS2 -.

I have had a look on the Young Minds website, although haven't actually contacted them yet. I too have heard they are helpful

I was given some good advice from some specialists we've seen about DS2 (which applies to DS1) such as try and reward any positive behaviour no matter how small - this of course is quite tricky when you have a child who is generally not that well behaved! Although occasionally DS1 has been really over protective over DS2 with him just starting High School. I thought this was really nice and told DS1 how proud I was, but he didn't seem comfortable with this, just shrugged.

Also that you cannot control what they do but you can control how you respond - this is good as I don't ever raise my voice or enter into any confrontation when he (DS1) has done something inappropriate and it does limit the 'explosions' at home - however overall I just feel I am rewarding any glimmer of good behaviour and ignoring all the negative stuff which surely doesn't make me a very effective parent.

Thanks again, hopefully this appointment for Cahms will come through sooner rather than later :)