What should I do about 16 year old dd - she is still in bed (13.20 and counting)!

[hmcAsWas]

Okay so she doesn't need to be anywhere, so technically its not an issue. I let it go last week as we got back from Canada last Monday and our sleep patterns were askew, but its been a week now

I also suspect that she has delayed sleep phase disorder and I have booked a GP appointment for her tomorrow.

During term time she would struggle with the early start since she could rarely sleep before 1 or 2 am. She would shower the night before so that she could literally get up 15 minutes prior to leaving the house. She would then just throw on clothes and go (eating her breakfast in the car). I enabled this by driving her in, when she could have got the school bus which would leave half an hour earlier. She would be quite zombie like by the end of the week and would use the weekend to sleep in and recharge.

I have told her that I am not prepared to drive her to her sixth form college every day in September and she will have to get the bus which leaves at 7.20.... she does have a genuine problem I think (the delayed sleep phase disorder) hence the doctors appointment tomorrow. I just wonder how far I should accept this? Should I be dragging her out of bed right now? (I've been up three times trying to coax her to get out of bed), or should I just let sleeping girls lie? It just feels 'wrong' for her to still be sleeping (as she has pretty much every day since we got back from holiday)

he doesn't have the same difficulties with falling asleep... YET... give it time xx
What does your DD do till the early hours until she falls asleep... if shes on the Internet I'd be tempted to turn it off
No caffeine from 2pm onwards
Turn off computer games an hour before bed time
Also just wondered if this is a recent thing

My 13 year old DS doesn't have any problems falling asleep either but he is a LOT more active than the 16yo. Does your DD get fresh air and/or exercise during the day?

Smarty - she has been like it since about y8/9 I think.

She does use her phone (set to night settings) before bed sometimes, but she tried a strict 'no screens' after 9pm routine before and it did nothing to help the situation. Other times she reads or 'crafts' (embroidering her jeans at the moment)

She drinks almost exclusively water - so no caffeine issues

To be honest - not at the moment What since she is always in bed1

Its off season at the moment but from September she resumes matches with her football team

Just off out for a dog walk - but first I am going to try the futile exercise of going up to her room and asking her if she fancies coming with me. Back later

DS, 14 is the same. He was up the days we were going somewhere but slept until 11.30/midday on many days.
All stops tomorrow though - back to school.

Everyone's different though aren't they? My mum pings out of bed at 6am singing away
Me and my dad have to sit for 30 mins mainlining coffee before anyone speaks to us

Sorry for mocking OP.
It can be a problem. DS1 doesn't seem to have grown out of it completely at 22 although he does now only need 6/7 hours of sleep. He can get up at 7am but still struggles to get to sleep at night. Going to bed early is counter productive as he then dreads going to bed knowing he won't be able to sleep - a self fulfilling prophecy.

DS2 at 20 needs a good 9 hours but crawls into his bed early and is out like a light. He does find the lumi clock helps him get up and improves his mood.

What time is she going to bed on school nights? Could it be too early?

Its fine Hizz, I wasn't offended

She tries to go to bed around 10.30/11pm on school nights but sleep is elusive. I am back from the dog walk now and she is up, I've been home 5 minutes and she is pestering me to take photos of her wearing several outfits so that she can sell her old clothes on Depop. Now I wish she was asleep again

What time does she have to get up during the week?
Does she need to be in bed at 10.30. I rarely go to bed before midnight but don't get up to 7 so normally enough sleep. I tend to lie in Saturday mornings and catch up.

She has to be up for 6.30 in the week, but doesn't manage to sleep until after 1.00 normally. The National Sleep Foundation (and other reputable sources) advise around 8-10 hours sleep per night for teenagers

Sounds like my Dd

During hols she goes to sleep at about 3am and gets up at 12.00.

BUT during term time she goes to sleep at 1am and gets up at 6.30 and then reverts to 3am and a lay in on the Friday on the Saturday. She is normally reading/texting/watching Netflix during these unearthly hours.

To be honest I thought this was totally normal. She does about 14 hours of exercise a week (during/before/ after school) and she still can't sleep before 1am.

Can I ask why she needs to be up? Is there anything that she is supposed to be doing?

So long as she doesn't expect you to creep around the house so you don't wake her, she does any chores she's meant to do (albeit at weird hours) I would leave her to it.

I know the advice is 8-10 but sleep requirements vary enormously from individual to individual. The best guide is whether somebody is waking naturally and not tired!
However, you have said she is tired during the week so there does seem to be an issue. I think a good look at her routine and check she is allowing herself time to wind down (not working until last minute before bed).
I always read before I go to sleep whether I go at 11.00 or 3.00 in the morning. It's my routine and it takes my mind off my work so I fall asleep easily. Without it, I lay awake running the day through my mind etc.
It's about finding a routine that works for you. For a while during a stressful time I used 'calms' tablets which contain Valarian which worked well (but I had to get somebody to wake me on the morning as I slept heavier than normal).
I'm saying this as I definitely have delayed sleep phase so I've had to get used to managing it.

I am like your dd- terrible night owl regardless of the time I need to be up at. My dad is exactly the same.

It really raised its head for me when I was 15/16- I could have slept all day, preferring to be up at night. I still favour a late night despite knowing I might be a bit tired in the morning, but it hasn’t done me any harm.

I also wouldn’t discard the possibility of jet lag, even a week later. Both me and my dad take about 2 weeks to get ourselves “right” after a transatlantic flight- I don’t know whether it’s coincidence or linked to our night owl tendencies, but it can be miserable!

I guess she doesn't have to be up during the holidays Cblue and the consensus is that I should leave her to it, although she has said she would prefer to be up earlier than 3pm (as she feels that the day is over by the time she gets up) and wants my support in turfing her out of bed by 12 noon tomorrow (apparently I am to open the blinds, open the window and turn her fan off and that should do it - not sure it will, but I'll try)

We'll try the valarian whathaveIforgotten, thanks

Invest in a cattle prod - that will get her up in double quick time.

Sh3 sounds like a normal teenager. I was effectively nocturnal at that age. I’m still an owl all these years later. If I didn’t have to go to work, I would go to bed at 2-3 am and get up at 10 - 11.

I’m not a morning person. Never have been, never will be.

My 17 yo always sleeps in if she hasn't got to be anywhere. I don't know what time she goes to sleep as I go to bed before her usually. She started college last year and only needed to be up early (7.30 ish) twice a week - she managed that and was there on time despite sleeping later the 5 other days.

A couple of things spring to mind

1. she's a normal teenager - they need more sleep, but their sleep patterns shift towards nocturnal
2. she's come back from Canada, presumably from west to east, the bad way and hasn't had to get up for work / college so hasn't re-established a 'normal' sleep pattern
3. some people have wildly different sleep patterns. Pleased don't medicalise your DD's. It's now 1am and I'm as bright as a button. I've have to be up and out by 8.30 'tomorrow' which won't be pleasant for me but I'll do it just fine. But here's the thing - I could have gone to bed at 10pm and still had difficultly getting up. Some of us are just skewed towards the nocturnal and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. Doesn't mean I'm lazy - I do a lot of work in the 4 hours or so between DP going to bed at 10pm and me going at 2am. I like to think of it in evolutionary biological terms - ancient humans needed someone in the family / tribe to keep watch at night whilst the others slept. That's me and maybe it's your DD.

Quite normal, stop worrying.
I've slept nearly all day before now and still felt tired - but when it came to going out somewhere good I woke up in time to get myself done up :-).

All part of being young, she'll get over it.

I got up for the loo at 4.30am and DD was still awake

If DD has nowhere to be, why does it matter? Why do so many people find it virtuous to go to bed at 9pm and wake up at 6am but lazy & slovenly to go to bed at 3am and get up at 12pm? It's the same amount of sleep!

How much exercise does she do?
Forget the label it sounds like an average teenager instead of a medical problem - will at least give GPS a giggle over their coffee.
Imprher sleep habits. Reduce screen time. More exercise outside. Early waking, dull hour before sleep. It is hard to get up early but also something they need to learn. If you stay asleep to late into the afternoon, your not going to be sleepy at 11pm. It’s not an illness, it’s common sense.
Mine boarded at sixth form to avoid a 5:45 start and a 2 hour school bus ride that would take 20 minutes by car. There was always an expectation of constructive activity during school holidays - work, voluntary work, summer schools, active holidays, work experience, sport or music camps etc. Mine would happily stay in bed all day if it were tolerated - even now when back from university, the default setting is lie in.

My teen is exactly the same. Average bed time over the holidays is around 2-3am, she's getting up at midday /1pm unless we're going out and then I wake her up earlier. Even after a full week at school she's still awake at midnight, sometimes just lying in bed trying to get to sleep but not succeeding. She's obviously a night owl. Dh is the same. We all have different body clocks. I don't know any teens who go to sleep early and get up early tbh!

ds1 is completely nocturnal at the moment.

He works from home and most of his work contacts are in a different time zone, so he's still awake at 6-7am when dh and me are getting up and going to work, he's chatty and quite pleasant. He'll sleep for the rest of the day, then be up again 3-4pm will go out for a bit cycling or sometimes meet friends in town. He knows towards the end of the hols he'll have to start bringing his sleep back to more normal times.

But right now I let him get on with it.