I suppose this is WIBU? Should I feel a guilty as I do?

[Judgementday]

DS is 17, 18 in a few months. Sailed through his GCSE's with little revision and got very good grades. He's always been a high achiever in school but it came naturally to him and he needed to put in little work.

He's taken 3 A levels, the most difficult subjects Maths, Chemisty and Biology. He has no idea what he wants to do for a careeer but doesn't think he wants to go to university. He's a gentle, quiet boy, no trouble but totally apathetic about working, both in school and at anything else. If he could he'd laze around all day either on the Xbox or watching YouTube videos.

Meeting with school last November reveals hes struggling with the A levels as he's just not putting the work in, teachers were very straight and said if he doesn't pick his socks up he'll finish this year with C's at best. Cue lots of tears from him promising to revise and consolidate his learning more and pull his socks up. This hasn't really happened as far as I can tell. I have no idea how he's doing as he just tells me everything is fine, and he's coping although he's finding it hard.

Fast forward to now and due to continued long hours on the Xbox (which is his socialising he says) we've had to put our foot down. He was literally spending 14 hours a day or more on weekend and up to 6 hours in the evenings. We've spent £2000 on getting him through his driving test and insuring a car for him so we've pretty much made him get a part time job in a fast food restaurant to keep the car running as if he's got time to play Xbox for those hours he may as well be working. He was reluctant in case it impacted his studies!

He started two weeks ago but is contracted for 24 hours a week which I think its too much. He's now using this as a stick to beat us with as if he fails his exams now it'll be because he's working. We can't win. I've told him to reduce his hours in the run up to exams but apparently he can't.

I'm now feeling guilty, maybe we were too hasty in making him get a job just yet. Any thoughts? I'm prepared to be told we are in the wrong so don't worry.

Thanks

He was spending 58 odd hours a week on the x box but can't manage 24 hours of actual paid work? Really?
If he fails it is due to his poor study habits.

I know that Wolfiefan, I honestly do but when he finished at 11pm last night after a full day of school and he's back in all day today I couldn't help but feel guilty. I suppose he's still my little boy but DH says he needs this kick up the bum to get him to see the real world and get him outside of his bedroom. I'm genuinely not sure how many 6th formers work that number of hours plus do 3 tough A levels.

I'm hoping he'll look back and think it was a good thing that we made him do. We do try and help him as much as possible, paid all that money for driving lessons and insurance. Half of me thinks he needs to learn to 'adult' and take responsibility for himself, the other thinks bless him he's still in school.

He wouldn't be struggling if he had knuckled down from the beginning though. It's a hard line between wanting to protect them and keep them our kids and getting them to take responsibility and grow up.
How many shifts is it and how long? He's not working every day?

I fully understand your frustration, my DS is similar, and I've thought hard about him getting a job.
However, he's doing similar A Levels to your DS, plus an AS, and I eventually decided that it was best to focus what little energy he seems to have on his studies, not working. At his school they are mid-mocks and then the proper exams start in May. I guess your DS will be in a similar position.
So I decided that he should hold off getting a job until after the exams, as we want as little distraction as possible. School are putting on revision classes at weekends and after normal classes, and if he had a job he wouldn't necessarily be able to attend these.
Because gaming seems to take up so much of his focus, it's better for him to be at revision classes at school, rather than solely revising at home.
A 24 hour working week on top of a full day at school and revision/homework after that seems a lot. 24 hours would be what, both days at the weekend and 2 evenings a week ? It's doable,(just) for someone who is forced to fund themselves, and/or is highly motivated and energetic, and I know there are people who do this and more, but if he doesn't have to, I don't quite see why now ( exam season) would be the time to start it.
Having said that, I know mine uses any excuse not to study, and your DS probably will blame you if he's "too tired" to study. Like I said, it's doable but only if you are highly motivated.

6hrs on a Saturday job would be a better balance.

He needs to limit Xbox to an hour or so after a good study session.

O blimey its tough isnt it? Its hard to find an old fashioned saturday job though.
Actually what i would do now is sit down when everyone is in a sensible place.
Look at his revision plan (he wont have one)
Draw up revision plan with him. See if he will stick to it.
Have a discussion about games use.
If he can show his commitment he can leave job and start to look again in the summer.
A little look into the life of the low paid worker will have done him no harm.
Do not let him have the summer off if he has no uni plans. He needs to be out there looking for a proper job.

Irrespective of the Xbox problem24 hours a week working is too much.
It really is hard to just get a few hours work.
Was the driving lessons and car conditional on him paying by getting a job? I personally wouldn't have done that. I think driving is an essential skill and paid for both DC to learn but I didn't buy them cars. I did encourage part time work but only casual / few hours that could be dropped altogether in the run up to exams.
AJP's plan is sensible. Don't be afraid to "back down" on the job thing, it's too important.

The car and driving wasn't really subject to him getting a job but frustrations have grown over his total apathy over a number of months now and so a few ultimatums were issued. I would have preferred he waited until his exams were over to take work but the opening became available so he took it. I have asked that he put shifts up for offer in the run up to and over his exams but I think he can see this may the perfect excuse now as to why he may not do well in his exams.

Ideally 8-12 hours a week would have been plenty - I want him to work also for the social element and to help him grow up a bit - he's so young in his ways, no responsibility for himself etc, we have to nag him to wash, change his clothes, despite him being so bright he has no common sense.

Driving is another issue at the moment, he won't drive alone at present so we are accompanying him in the car wherever he goes. It's difficult not to get frustrated at him - he's almost an adult in age but not in ways.

At my ds school they suggested max 10 hours paid work per week and to even cut this down from now until exams finish. Therefore I would get him to reduce his hours or ask to come back in the holidays.

I would sit down and work a revision plan out with him and allow an hour of x box a night after it’s done. He is probably overwhelmed by the amount of revision needed so I would try to help him.

I would ensure he went back to work for the holidays.

He's almost 18. He really needs to fledge, now.
A) not interested in the subjects, B) doesn't want to go to university, C) any clear path that the A-levels will help him with. Why would he want to work hard in studies?

If he's keen on the work I'd be keen on that. Step back & stop imposing rules and conditions like you're supposed to run his life. I needed the world of work to figure out how to grow up. Some people do.

“If he's keen on the work I'd be keen on that. Step back & stop imposing rules and conditions like you're supposed to run his life. “

He’s 17, he’s still a child! Are you really suggesting the OP encourages him to work in a fast food restaurant FT just because he can’t be arsed to study and would rather play on his x-box?

Teenagers can be a bit dense at time, it’s their parents job to steer them in the right direction and help them make the right choices!

It doesn’t sound like he is incapable, just lazy. He doesn’t need to go to uni if he doesn’t want to, but keep pushing him to study for his A-Levels and help him work out what he wants to do afterwards. To throw in the towel now would be a total waste.

But I do agree that 24 hours a week when at school is a bit much.

These threads always come down this this divide.

Should you kick your child's butt hard to 'make' them work harder, whenever you feel appropriate, until the magic day when they turn 18 and become "an adult". At which point you merely get to hand-wring in quiet agony, I guess. Still wrapped up even after they're adults with thinking that they must follow certain paths in life.

Or do you look at approaching adulthood as a gradual process, and that people (even kids) learn from their mistakes & taking risks, and that many diverse paths to a satisfactory adulthood exist? I know I'm minority by being in the second camp. It's good for my sanity.

Like a colleague (high achiever herself) said other day "I just think we parents get caught up in this meat-grinder factory approach to thinking what success looks like." She's actively encouraging her kids to take some gap year time after A-levels, before they commit to the next stage in possible life paths.

OP, I have a DS of a very similar age and can empathise!

I think that 24 hours a week in a job is too much while doing A levels. My own DS has recently got a part-time job. There have been some weekends where he has worked a 7 hour shift on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and I think that just cuts into potential study time too much. I also think there's a danger that when your DS gets poor A level results, as he inevitably will do if he carries on as at present, he will convince himself that it is all due to you and your DH having forced him to work lots of hours in a job, That could have a lasting effect on your relationship.

Having said all that, I do think that the current situation is actually better than your DS spending all his non-lesson time playing computer games. That seems to me to have been the worst of both worlds, as spending so much time on gaming must surely have been bad for your DS's physical health, as well as meaning he didn't get any studying done. At least in the current situation he is gaining work experience and experiencing of interacting with colleagues (and maybe customers).

I think the best thing would be to agree with your DH that you will take a united stance of agreeing that your DS should give up his job (assuming it's not possible to keep the job, but with much reduced hours) BUT conditional on your DS agreeing to specific times which will be used for study and when he won't play computer games at all (not even as a break from studying, as it's just too easy for a 10 minute break to turn into 3 or 4 hours - I believe computer games are deliberately designed to be addictive). I think you should agree that during the time designated as "no gaming" time, you have the right to check up on your DS and that if you find him gaming you will simply unplug the games console there and then. I don't think just agreeing to more study time is enough. You need to be really specific, write down at the time what DS has agreed to and get him to confirm that's what he has agreed. Otherwise, he'll probably take the agreement as being that if he puts in half an hour on study here and there, he can spend the rest of his time gaming. If your DS won't agree to specific "no gaming" hours, I actually think he he better off staying in his job. At least that brings some benefits.

I suspect your DS is now feeling that he is so far behind in his studies that he will never catch up. If you can afford it, I would look into getting him a decent tutor. As he is bright, I think that with some one to one tuition he will be able to catch up if he starts working now. If you can afford one hour's tuition per week, but not three, ask your DS in what subject he feels tuition would be most beneficial. (I would guess maths.)

On the driving thing, your DS is ahead of mine, as my DS has not started learning yet. On that I would just be patient, but make sure he keeps going out for a drive (even if he insists on you or your DH being there) so that he doesn't become one of those people who passes his test but then doesn't dare drive at all because he's left it so long. If he keeps driving, sooner or later the time will come when he really wants to get somewhere by car, but you and your DH are not available to go with him. At that point, he'll get in the car and go, and when he's plucked up the courage to do it once, it won't seem so scary to do it again.

He should speak to his employer. DS's employer is moving him to one 6 hour shift a week from now until after his gcses and he'll pick up extra shifts during the summer hols to cover holidays. He is a lifeguard

Thanks for all your replies. DS has agreed to speak to his employers and reduce to 1 shift per week from now until the exams are over. He's really enjoying working he says and finds it fun. So much so he's now thinking about whether he should finish up after this year (AS levels) and get an apprenticeship! So now I'm wondering if THAT is the right thing to do or should he stick with the A levels?
He's applied online for two apprenticeships today, both engineering with large local firms and he seems very excited about it.

He's also driving much, much more confidently now, I'm happy if he is for him to go out alone, just a few days of me accompanying him and lots of driving and he's a million % better already.

So, another thing for me to worry about now - the fact he wants to jump ship from A levels 😳