Cadet Worries

[scotmum2003]

My daughter recently joined cadets and is loving it but she has a few worries which I fear may stop her participating in future activities. She is very self conscious about her looks, weight, chest size, spots etc.

She joined along with about 10 others a few months back and so far has been away on a camp for the weekend, flying, first aid and air rifle training. She has been telling me about these activities, which she loved for the most part, and how they are very comfortable with getting up close and personal at times.

What happened and why is she worried:
-Had to shower in a communal shower completely naked with 5 other girls. She was obviously uncomfortable with being naked around others, but it was hinted that she'd not know what to do if she was on her period (doesn't like tampons)
-She was weighed by a senior cadet infront of the 4/5 others who were going flying.
-During the first aid course had to practise "head to toe" exams on each other (involves touching/feeling almost everywhere)
-Had to line up with the 10 other newbies where they were measured for uniforms. This included chest, inside leg and they weren't discrete about it!

I'm worried that this will put her off doing week long camps in the summer (which she now has the chance to do) which I hear are good fun. How do I explain to her that nobody cares about her looks and nobody is looking at her in the showers? I've tried but she doesn't believe me. I know all these things are normal and I don't worry about them happening - but she does and I don't want this to affect her experience.

Thanks x

Forgot to mention she can't wear makeup in uniform and is very self conscious about acne

Urgh. All of those things are completely normal - and it’s important for her to know that there is no judgement involved in any of it - being a teen is tough, but all of these activities are about making more of herself, not less.
I think she will get used to this stuff as it happens more - and she has survived it once. She’s strong enough to survive it again. I would be just telling her how fantastic she is - that she is learning life saving first aid skills, that she gets to fly, that she gets to take part in exercises 100% as an individual - no one cares what sex she is, what size she is. (That said, I still remember my commanding officer referring to ‘that bloody great thick neck of yours’ when I needed a new shirt because the collar size was too small - thirty years ago - but even then he was just grumbling away about having to open the stores, it wasn’t a personal judgement about my worth. And besides which, he damned well knew my worth, as I was the CWO lol)
Cadets is bloody brilliant. She needs to use it and squeeze the life out of every opportunity she gets.
I hope she sticks with it!

She absolutely can wear make up btw. Just concealer and foundation if it helps her. The only days not to are if they are doing some NBC work, which I don’t think they will be doing with kids. I wouldn’t wear anything else - if she is plastered in it then it kind of makes her stand out - it would be hard to maintain that it doesn’t matter what you look like if you have to have a full face on to shoot a rifle...

Thanks for the advice.

I've explained to her that the first aid is uncomfortable for both parties - especially the boys. I've mentioned all the other points you have said to her aswell. I asked her about whether she wants to go in the summer and I think she does but she's still clearly worried about her period, showers and swimming. I think after doing it she'll realise that none of the girls are interested in her.
She's convinced that they're going swimming soon too as she was measured for and tried on swim suits (having to do this in the female changing rooms with other girls probably didn't help!). She really isn't looking forward to this as she is going to be 'exposed' in a swimsuit infront of the boys. Tried everything to put her mind at rest but it's not working.

Any more advice appreciated

Do they have a female officer/ CI? How many other girls? How does she manage swimming at school?
I actually think the girls in cadets are in a more powerful position than the boys in some cases. There IS an element of ‘proving yourself’ but the confidence you get from doing so is priceless. The thing about uniforms is that they do remove all the fashion signifiers, and it really is that you are judged on what you can do - not what you look like. They are a great leveller.
You have probably done this already, but get her a big range of tampons to try - dd1 was a dancer and really didn’t like the idea at first, but the reality of wearing a leotard and waving your legs in the air meant that after a month or so, she decided to give it a try. Once your dd finds something she gets along with, the idea of swimming will be less anxiety inducing in one respect anyway. She has time before summer camp to try a few brands. (With my dds I literally said ‘have got you a few different brands to try - let me know which works’ and left them In the bathroom.) I think it’s worth revisiting tampons with your dd and saying hey, I know you isn’t get on with them last time, but sometimes it’s worth another go as they do make life easier for this type of activity... and once you find a type you are comfortable with - bingo. Another confidence boost.

no one will care what she looks like in a costume btw - if she is confident in the pool, that’s what will they will notice. And the boys will be fretting over their scrawny chests and trunk packages. I talk about this stuff a lot with the teen girls I work with. I just say ‘who cares what you look like? What can you do? What do you LOVE? Go get it!’ We talk a lot about peer expectations and consign them to room 101. Be true to yourself. And learning to fly? To be able to save lives? To stand up for herself? To be a brave and confident woman? Awesome stuff. She can do it.

There are female staff but I don't think she's confident in talking to them about sensitive issues. There are quite a few other girls of varying ages. She has never done swimming at school - PE has no shower requirement and the most she is ever seen in is her bra, never fully nude. I have let her try loads of types of tampons and she still doesn't like them at all.

I really have no idea what to tell her about communal showering or swimming on her period though. She may just have to 'put up' with tampons for that week on camp or even the latter part of the day.

I think the swimsuit thing will be something she has to get used to. She tried on the suit she will have to wear and thinks it makes her look flat chested and fat aswell as showing off a bit more bum than she would like. Just thought that she may be a bit worried about shaving 'down there' as she hasn't before as far as I know.

Do you think it's worth suggesting that she speaks to one of the older (female) senior cadets for advice in things like showers and swimming?

Thanks again

She went swimming last night after much encouragement from myself.

Before she went I offered advice on shaving legs and her downstairs. I took her for a professional waxing which needless to say she was nervous about, but I was there for support.
She says it wasn't bad once she was in the water, but the swimsuit was riding up and you could even see her nipples through it (She tried it on when she came home and it does look to be both too thin and the wrong size)!

She could ask to get measured for another size but this would involve the intrusive measurements and naked in the changing rooms again. She doesn't know what she wants to do and I don't know what to tell her.

She isn't telling me much about camps, but I think this has really put her off going. Considering you have to change and shower together on a camp (aswell as doing swimming) I think this would be too much for her right now

What can I tell her? Please help!

How many other girls in her unit? Do they have any female staff that take it upon themselves to offer support to female cadets? It IS tricky - by speaking to the girls separately, it does single them out and so triduces ‘difference’ when the main positive is that everyone is treated the same...
In all honesty, I think you need to be supporting her to solve these problems herself - she is old enough to start to do this. So I would be saying essentially - ‘this is a great thing for you to be doing - what do you think would help you to be more confident and get the most out of these activities?’ And brainstorm things she could do - but try and get her to take the lead in finding solutions too - so you become a cheerleader/ reminder rather than a problem-solver. If she is struggling initially, then you can ask ‘is there someone you could confide in? An older cadet? A female officer?’ Or ‘do you think you would prefer to try a different size swimsuit? What would that mean?’ I would keep emphasize the positives though - ‘camp will be amazing - how can we make it easier - what are you concerned about?’ ‘Do you think you can put up with tampons for a few days if your period coincides with camp?’ but also noting that it may well not at all!
And support like mad if she comes up with solutions herself - that in itself will be hugely empowering - she can do this

My daughter (13) was on a weeks camp with cadets late last year. It involved a lot of water sports and she was due her period. We got the tablets which delay your period (norethisterone) worked an absolute treat for her and took away any worries or concerns. She did say another girl had her period while there and felt uncomfortable so missed out on a few activities.

Regarding showering is it an option to keep her swim suit on if she's so self conscious? I have to say though there is a huge variety of shapes and sizes in my daughters group they are incredibly supportive of each other. I have never heard a bad word said about anyones build/size.

I hope she continues as the benefits far outweigh any negatives.

Hi is this Army Cadets? My daughter is in Army Cadets but they are allowed to wear their own swimsuits maybe this could be an option? Speak to the person in charge of her detachment and see. Also my daughter showers in her swimsuit during annual camp if she feels the need to. On a weekend camp you'll be lucky if they do more than have a quick wipe down! Shower before they go Friday, shower when they get home Sunday missing Saturday won't kill them. I do agree with getting the period delay tablets if you can. Having a period whilst on camp is awful no matter your age ( I'm a Scout Leader too )

Had to shower in a communal shower completely naked with 5 other girls.
She could wear a swimming costume in the shower. Also, they aren't always communal. Most aren't these days really but it depends where they go.

She was weighed by a senior cadet infront of the 4/5 others who were going flying.
An important part of the safety process I would assume. In future she could always ask that the others aren't close enough to see the weight?

During the first aid course had to practise "head to toe" exams on each other (involves touching/feeling almost everywhere)
Can't help there really, it is a genuine thing and an important skill. It isn't something that can be practiced on a resus anne as they don't have arms and legs!

Had to line up with the 10 other newbies where they were measured for uniforms. This included chest, inside leg and they weren't discrete about it!
This could probably have been done at home by you, but too late now. If she has her uniform now they won't measure again anytime soon.

[mamaryllis]
There's about 15-25 other females (it's a large unit) and she says that she may feel comfortable talking to one of the more senior cadets (no staff) but she is still worried about them telling people about what she says. I'm doubtful it would happen, but it's an understandable concern of hers. The problem with swimsuit sizes is they have the sqn logo on it and she is always a funny size due to her top and bottom not being proportional. And of course she will still grow! Thanks for the advice.

[ishouldntsaybut]
There is a large peer (and staff I believe) pressure not to shower with swimsuits on as they can't properly wash their bits and pieces. I think it would be out of the question in fear of being called dirty etc, you still have to get naked to get into the swimsuit too! l'll give the tablets a shot, sound like a good idea!

[needmysleep75]
No, it's air cadets. She can't wear her own swimsuit as it needs to have the unit logo on it. The weekend camp she was just on she showered friday and saturday night. See above about showering in swimsuits.

[jeeves93]

1. See above. The showers on the camps she has been on, at the swimming and on her unit are communal which really worries her.
2. Good idea, but I think she doesn't want to appear self conscious.
3. I get that it's needed, but she really felt uncomfortable with her touching/other touching her thighs(about as high as you could get!), hips, stomach, ribcage etc
4. Good idea. I have since taken her height, head, chest, bra, waist, hips, inside leg, skirt length and weight measurements incase they are needed for the future. She was uncomfortable but definitely better than them doing it!

Any further advice or tips for her are much appreciated!

Can you alert the swimsuit at all? Depends which way it doesn't fit of course, but I've often sewn a small tuck into the straps on one piece swimsuits to get them not to fall off at the shoulders.

Do you have another unit near you?

I was in air cadets for years went on many amazing camps both in the U.K. And overseas and I never encountered any of these problems.
Although weighing for flying and touching during first aid is pretty essential.

I don't remember ever having to shower naked all of the showers either had cubicles or you showered in a bikini (you could get her a towelling changing robe for getting dry and dressed under).

Getting changed in front of others in dorms is fairly normal but there were plenty who went in to the toilets.

Tell them she's had a growth spurt and needs a new costume her measurements are xyz. Again never had to wear a squadron costume and plenty of people wore rash vests over the top.

I had horrendous periods as a teen and being on camp on your period really sucks, potential to leak on sheets etc and you aren't always near a toilet if you are doing fieldcraft exercises it's difficult to dispose of sanitary products (give her some nappy bags but she'd have to keep hold of them till she gets back to civilisation). It wasn't until I was older that I went on the pill and it made a huge difference. So if you could get her the pill that suspends periods it would be good. Those who didn't want to take part in swimming didn't but are actively encouraged to do so.

Talk to the staff they will help where they can or try another unit, or get involved either as a volunteer or in the Sqn committee that help fundraiser so you get to know the staff. Be aware that as many of the adults involved in cadets are ex military they aren't like teachers, of course they shouldn't be rude or swear but there does tend to be a different level of banter and which can take a while to get used to and hopefully she'll be (respectfully) giving as good as she gets soon.

Air cadet forumn You both might find this forum useful. You can ask questions anonymously and hopefully get more up to date answers.

[candlelights]
No, I can't alter it as it's on loan from them.

[princesshairymclary]
Changing unit wouldn't help. The camps have multiple units going on them and it's just the available facilities. There's no rules stopping her showering in a swimsuit but she doesn't want to be the odd one out - peer pressure is strong. Her unit is quite big and likes everyone to appear the same so they wear their logo on sports kit.

Advice and tips appreciated

No, I can't alter it as it's on loan from them

If it is that the shoulder straps are too long it's possible to sew a tuck in them which is completely reversible (you just unpick the stitching) when she needs to return it.

One piece swimsuits are a nightmare to find to fit if your top doesn't match your bottom in size, or if -like me- you're just shorter than average. A different size might not fit somewhere else

My daughter is in army cadets and we measured her for all her uniform and then put it on a form. Also the girls always have individual showers so that problem is solved. Seems really mean making them do these things in front of others. Maybe speak to a female officer?

i was in cadets and tell her first aid saves life, so it is a tough love situation.
However buy her a bikini and shower in that? That's what al the girls did and boys showered in their boxers.

Thanks for the advice, Candlelights.

Chaplin, the showers are not always individual. I wouldn't say it's mean, they all do it but she seems much shyer than the others when it comes to this.

Janet, see above, peer pressure is stopping her showering in a swimsuit.

Further advice appreciated, really don't want her put off by this

I have 2 girls in army cadets one has been in for many years and she has always had individual showers.

The slight problem with the showers might be that air cadets tend to get worse accommodation on camps than army cadets do (in contrast to the reputation of the RAF!) so might get stuck with communal showers. Most army accommodation has at least some method of separating individuals in the shower. She could try getting up 5 minutes before everyone else and showering first?

She needs to speak to the adult in charge, or you can. They will find ways around this sort of thing if you ask.

So an update on the situation

I suggested speaking to the staff members but these topics are obviously very sensitive for her so she asked me not to.
She's done sports (inc swimming) several times at the unit which all involved changing/showering afterwards but she still isn't getting used to it, but it does seem to not put her off (for now anyway).

Since last month they've lost the measurements and were not interested in using the ones I took since they may be incorrect and cause long term problems with uniform. They took new ones but had to take the girls into the changing rooms because they couldn't get inside leg with skirts on!

Lastly she was told to go change into her sports bra (they were in uniform before sports started) as they could see her pink bra through her blue shirt. She was mortified!

No idea how to convince her to stay now, I think it's her overreacting in some places and of course making bad decisions!