Talk me down

[brokenrightdown]

I've reached the end of my rope with my 13yo dd, literally can't take any more

Her behaviour has been slowly escalating for a couple of years but it has gotten much worse in the last year. A year ago I had to ban her from spending time with her dad as he was being abusive towards her. She has always said in this time that I was being unfair and "ott" but I stood firm. Situation has now changed and over the last few months we have been slowly building up contact.

So she's completely disrespectful towards me most days and I can't cope anymore. She behaves like she's the adult at times. Trying to tell me what the plans are etc. If she doesn't get what she wants she becomes really nasty by saying no wonder her dad left me. No wonder I don't have many friends. These types of things. She has been caught drinking alcohol twice last year. Treats the house like a hotel and me like a maid. Her bedroom is a health hazard and she constantly just takes my things such as toiletries and makeup. She called me a cow when I hid my expensive makeup from her. Anytime I lose my temper she threatens to tell her dad. Icould go on.

Tonight for once I thought we had had a nice night with pizza and a film. Then she asks to see dad tomorrow but I've already made plans for us . Then she starts on me. Calling me nasty pathetic a loser no friends. I snapped just totally snapped. Told her to pack up all her stuff and I'll get her dad to pick her up tomorrow. I can't go on like this coz I feel like I'm living with an abusive bully. I walk on eggshells as I can never tell what mood she'll be in. I have anxiety and have been having terrible palpitations a lot.

I know I'll get completely flamed but she needs to go. I can't cope with her anymore. I know I'm potentially sending her into an environment which can be volatile at times and she's at risk of being screamed at regularly. But I've tried everything I can from discipline punishment bribery but she's so wilful. Am I setting her up for misery? Will sending her away damage her? I feel like I'll end up mentally damaged if she stays, feel I'm heading for possible hospitalisation like I say please please don't flame me, I'm feeling so beaten down just now can't cope with a virtual beating too. Feel I've failed as a parent and I'll definitely fall by sending her away but I don't know how I'll cope with parenting her much longer. I love her but I really don't like who she's becoming.

This is really tough on you. You've tried incredibly hard with your daughter and pushed yourself so much but it sounds like your health has really suffered.

Have you come across 'emotional dysregulation?' Also, do you go into the counselling sessions with her, or can you privately contact counsellor by phone or email? They may be able to suggest a way forward.

At the very least you need a break.you can't carry on like that.

I only have my brother but he has a young child with sen so it would be massively unfair. I wouldn't do that to them.

What would ss do if they were involved? What would they offer to help?

I know what my ex done to her was beyond awful. I feel as though I'm sacrificing my health and sanity for someone who doesn't appreciate it or want my efforts. Twice now I've missed my stop on the train due to absences, and was greeted by her fury when I got home as her dinner would be late (once with an accusation I was faking it). I'm scared she'll hit me as her behaviour is escalating all the time.

If sending her there isn't an option, how do I cope? How do I keep myself from getting sectioned? Coz that's the way I'm going (and I don't say that lightly. I've been extremely close 10 years ago).

Dear brokenrightdown, it sounds like your DD is attempting to assume the role of adult in the relationship? That her reaction to the stress you are experiencing is to try to reverse the roles?

Look up Eric Berne's transactional analysis. It might enlighten you to the dynamics between you and your DD.

I am wondering why your DD is idolising her dad when you say that he has hit her and that SS etc were involved. Could it be that although he has hit here, he is setting boundaries that are very clear to her? I am not saying that you should hit her as well or that it is not serious that he hit her, but perhaps he is more black and white in his parenting than you are?

Children are very sensitive to how their parents feel, and if you are (understandably) not coping, then she is very likely to react to this. Also, I assume you are the one who has arranged the counselling for her? Perhaps she feels that you think there is something wrong with her that needs fixing?

I very much doubt that she has any control over her reactions and behaviour, she's only 13. She is reacting and defending herself against a situation.

I'm just speculating based on your descriptions. I might be wrong? I don't know how to fix it, but based on my own experience as a teen with divorced parents, teens desperately need stable parents with clear boundaries. My DF was definitely the bad guy, but because my DM was depressed and neurotic following their divorce I idolised him because he was stable and had clear boundaries unlike my DM who was likely to react/trigger/have a breakdown at any given moment, I didn't feel safe with her and I reacted by fighting back and defending myself against her. I am not saying that you are like that, but perhaps there is an element of this in your relationship?

One of my dds behaves like this sometimes. They know how to get at you. And are very self-entitled.
In your situation, I think I would:

1. get the process started for whatever support is in theory possible through SW, CAHMS, etc.
2. realise that it is likely that you/she will in practice be offered no help, or not for a long time. It is something that she already has counselling - could you move her to a more effective counsellor?
3. start some kind of a sharing arrangement with her dad. Eg he takes her for half of school holidays and every second weekend. This would give you regular breaks from her, which would help a lot I would think. And her dad is less likely to be abusive if she is not with him the whole time.
4. Is there anyone else who can take her sometimes - eg aunt/uncle, grandparents? An occasonal residential holiday (some of these are subsidised if you are low income)? I would focus on diluting the time you have with her - if you have regular breaks, perhaps you will be able to cope. As she grows older, with luck she will start to mature, and will become less unpleasant.
5. Does she have any interest or ability that you could encourage? Eg if she is good at or enjoys a sport - would give her physical exercise and time out of the house in a positive environment, and would give you more time without her.

ljlkk she has been well aware of any plans, but when she changes her mind she will stop at nothing to get what she wants.

I have been in to several counselling sessions with her and I have made counsellor aware. Last one was on Wednesday. I sat mostly crying while dd told me how pathetic I was, and that I'm trying to ruin her life etc etc. Counsellor had to intervene a lot and point out her behaviour to her but she just cannot see it. She has an excuse for everything and no matter what it's never her fault.

Dad hit her 3 times. I found out after the 3rd and contacted the police. He was arrested but case was eventually dropped. Ss and lawyer initially advised me to keep her away from him but now they say given her she and because she does want to see him there's nothing they can do.

Fair enough, I'm not surprised she changed her mind!

Is she too impulsive to make a promise & keep it?

Another Teenagers 101 lesson: (if they aren't too capricious) make them promise not to change minds b/c it's not fair to mess you around. Just like you don't want to mess them around (tell them that). They can leave plans vague in which case there's no plan at all, or they can make a promise. Ideally they make a commitment & keep it. Teens quite like this. They love feeling that much in charge (give her some control). Trick is, make her think it's her ambition to be a reliable person. If the plans involve spending money in advance, make her pay up her share in advance.

Sharing her half time with her dad is not so crazy, then he knows not to take her for granted, more likely to stay on his good behaviour. Also gives your DD some control, which goes with taking some responsibility for her own mistakes. Don't let her play you parents against each other, though. You need to dodge that game.

I have always tried to be clear with my boundaries. She knows if she does X then Y will happen. (Phone away, no planned treat dinner etc). She knows undoubtedly that if I do as I say. This is part of the problem, she won't take no for an answer and tries to break me down.

She sets how often she goes for counselling, not me. At the moment it is every 1-2 weeks. There is sometimes a bit of kickback but only because she doesn't like having to get the bus there now. Her dad used to say he'd be ashamed if she ever needed counselling (she was 10, I cannot remember the context of the conversation) while I have maintained it takes a bigger person to seek help. I'm certain she does not resent me for taking her for counselling.

Unfortunately she has no interests. She stopped going to dance, piano and brownies about 3 years ago. She has been offered everything going...horse riding, drama, ice skating. She's not athletic and never has been and has always refused to go to these other activities when I've offered. She feels she's "too cool". She's a girl very much in to clothes and seeing friends. If she doesn't want to do something, be it visit family or go on holiday then she will point blank refuse saying I can't physically make her go, and if I do then it's assault. I had to cancel a weekend away abroad last year as she refused to go.

I honestly have no one. I can't ask my brother as already mentioned. I would not put her on my close friends as they have their own teenagers or young kids.

I don't mean to throw up a barrier to every suggestion, I know that can be frustrating but I have thought out every option.

ljlkk with all due respect, I really don't think I will get her to promise not to break plans when I literally fear she will hit me. She is a complex person and not a typical teenager. She has real anger issues which have been recognised by her counsellor. I know you're only trying to help but your "top teenager tips" are literally making me feel even more like shit coz it's like you feel I don't even know the basics. I know I will get flamed for that opinion..it is not a personal attack on you just I feel I'm well past the advice you offer. Thank you though

I am aware of the Parent Friend Child strategy and I actively use this. I recognise she is trying to put herself in the Parent position, and me in Child. I also never treat her like Friend as she is not my friend, she is my child.

am very sorry anything I said made you feel worse.
Sadly, MN doesn't let us delete our own messages!

No need to apologise or delete. I just feel I've tried so much. I do appreciate all your advice. I'm just at the end of my tether and I didn't mean to come across snappy

OP I don't know if this would work but
Can you tell her she's going to stay with her dad for a week (or two or a few days, up to you) and think about whether she wants to live with you or not. Like giving her a last chance. And tell her you're serious about this, and if she decides she wants to come back to live with you, then she will have to show a bit more respect and consideration towards you and others. Do you think this would make her understand?
Also, would there be someone keeping an eye on things if she's staying with her dad? (like SS or police)
I can understand how you feel. I can't imagine my teenagers doing this. I do not agree that "they're just teenagers", so what, they can be stupid and silly, but not disrespectful and hurtful!! I'm with you and will probably be flamed

Wow! I feel for you. You need 50/50 custody with her dad you really need a break xx

I don't think ss would help, doesn't meet their threshold but they may point you in the direction of others who could help, what area are you in roughly?

My DD was very very challenging think smashing the house up, telling me to fuck off at least a few times daily, doing as she wished, not returning home at agreed time, emotional blackmail and threats, smoking, drinking , excluded from school , pretty much the works!

you can't send her to her dad's though if he's previously physically abused her.

What's she like in school? To be honest nothing in your OP sounds really unusual, but that's just my view, which is unusual!

My main advice is detatch, do stuff for you away from the house, I tend to take the dog out for a walk the second DD starts to bubble giving her no one to argue with. I ignore drama and just say I'm not listening to you whilst your ranting then walk away, or "I've said no that's not changing " and escape! Do you pay for her contract phone? If so I have an app which means I can turn her data off, calls, texts the works , without touching her phone , it's great ! I usually only need to turn it off for a few minutes before she's apologetic.

There were times when DD screamed "ill run away if you don't let me", I thought I'd quite like to pack my bags and run away myself and very mumsnetty to say but I've actually had to sit on my hand to avoid smacking her when she pursues me round the house screaming obscenities whilst my poor neighbours bang on the walls.

But at 16 things are much better than at 13, I found 13-15 utter hell.

Thank you for your replies, I appreciate them all. I'm going to have a long hard think about everything that's happened and all of my options and the techniques suggested. I was at utter breaking point last night but the hand hold has really helped me. Hopefully I can update with good news. I'll keep checking for any other replies for advice. Thanks again.

Good luck 💐
Try to stay calm and not to rise to DD's tantrums!

I would mirror what other posters have said. Don't get drawn into an argument. Walk away if you need to. Starve the fire of oxygen. You won;t be able to get through to her when she is angry anyway so its a waste of energy. Better to wait until the dust has settled

She sounds like a very scared girl to me, who needs lots of support. Please don;t send her to her Dads. it will further undermine your relationship with her, as you banned her from seeing him when he was abusive, so don;t allow her to go to him when the going it tough. She sounds very vulnerable and needs you to see her through this. She is probably testing you too-kids know which buttons to push. Even if you don;t feel it, make her feel that you are in control and are unflappable. Make sure you self-care too. Very important to look after yourself

Ilove is right.

You also need sanctions when she is unpleasant to you. Boundaries are important. Eg if you provide a phone and she is rude, remove it. Warn her beforehand that you will if necessary.

Please just ignore me if you've tried this - I honestly don't mean it to sound patronising. Have you tried rewarding good behaviour? If she manages to speak to you in a polite and courteous manner, can you offer to make her a hot chocolate / take her to McDonalds / whatever you think she would like. I know I'm guilty of punishing the negative and not always doing enough to reward the positive.