Ds1(13) going to be put down a set in maths. You can't motivate someone, can you?

[Oblomov17]

Maths teacher phoned again. I can't have asked for more from the school. Yr8. They have shown an interest in ds, think he's more than capable. Same teacher as yr7. He says the chances have been given to ds, but can't continue. He's rung me many times. I bought ks3 books, sat with ds.

Behaviour in class is not concentrating, fidgety.
But he's bottom of set 1. They have pencilled him down to be moved down to set 2. They have children in set 2 who deserve the chance. I can't dispute that.

Top set gets loads of extra help and advantages.

He doesn't seem to care. You can't make someone want something, can you? Doesn't motivation need to come from within?

I am so sad. He's not like me. I would have grabbed the chance with both hands. I think he's actually a lot brighter than I ever was.

But what can you do?

Sometimes being the top of set 2 does a great deal of good to a child's confidence than being bottom of set 1 where they are always slightly slower to understand concepts than their peers.

I was going to say the same as Princess - my DD got moved down a set for a term - it did her the world of good. She was more confident in her own ability, was able to work at a different pace for awhile and rebuilt her confidence that way. When her teacher rang to tell me that is what they were thinking of he said he thought it was likely to be confidence related. After a term she was moved back up and is now secure in middle of her original set and coping well with the work. We talked to DD about it before the move and she wasn't as upset as I thought she would have been, she was to be honest a bit more cautious about being moved back up as she was worried she'd plunge back into lack of confidence and that she may had missed work with the original set. Have to say both teachers managed the transitions brilliantly. I hope your son has similar positive experience

It's highly unlikely to affect his chances long-term - there is a long way to go!
As pp have said, he may well do better.

Ok thank you.
I'll let it go and see what happens.

"Top set gets loads of extra help and advantages. "

like what?
Most schools put a bit more resources into the bottom sets -- try to get them up to C/4. The thing about top set is they are already doing brilliantly as a group.

My dd got moved down a set in her final year, from set 1 to 2. The school definitely gave the top set more revision classes and help towards the exams.

I agree with Princess, my DS was moved sets so he was no longer doggy paddling at the bottom of a set, instead he gained confidence being at the top of a lower set. Brought him on leaps and bounds

It annoys me that top set are given loads of changes to screw up. Ds has consistently out-performed the bottom of top set but they are so reluctant to move kids down....it's so unfair!

My DD (very conscientious but maths isn't an instinctive thing for her and she needs to work at it) was DEVASTATED to be moved down from set 1 to set 2 at the start of the year. But set 2 do exactly the same work, just taught in a slightly different way. She was moved back into set 1 at Easter but reckons she might go back into set 2 next year because she did badly on one area of her big end of year test. I think she's quite likely to spend her school career pinging between the two sets - but now she doesn't care because she can see there's no big difference and that set 2's approach might actually suit her better.

The end result is what matters. Set 2 may have a 'better' teacher for your DS in that they may 'get' your DS or teach in a way that brings the best out in them. Top set should not be getting extra help and advantages but I guess this is about schools focusing on results. He's year 8, still growing and developing. You are saying he doesn't seem to care, maybe he doesn't like being at the lower end of the set and feels too much pressure. Set 2 could be the making of him, don't be sad, be positive.

Get him checked out for SpLDs. Doing that with my Y10 DS now. Basically essential that they pass Maths and English. I'm also getting a maths tutor and as long as DS gets a 5 in Maths all is ok

I was moved down a set from Set 1 to Set 2 for English when I was at school. English was always 'my' subject and at the time I was very upset. I was in Set 2 for a year and I loved it! The teacher was great and I stopped getting mediocre grades and feedback. I was moved back up to Set 1 after a year, which I was told was unheard of, and got an A* at GCSE, A at A-level and a First in my degree. I didn't 'gel' with the first Set 1 teacher and couldn't do my best work for her, I think moving down was definitely the right decision for me.

Does he lack concentration and is fidgety in other subjects too? Perhaps this is an across the board issue not just a maths one but it's obvious in maths because they're setted and the teacher is very proactive? He might be not so obviously underachieving in a mixed ability class.

I'd be checking on behaviour and concentration in other subjects too. Is it shorthand for 'pain in the arse' or 'slacker'? Does it point to concentration issues, is he getting enough sleep? Has this been an issue in primary?

Sets don't matter a huge amount if he naturally falls between set 1 and 2, but if he should be top of set 1 then it needs looking into further.

My DD was moved down a set for maths after struggling in the top set. She was comparing herself to some friends who were really talented and it knocked her confidence. There were some tears at the time, but in the new set, she found her feet. She got an A in the end.

Also, just because he's acting like he doesn't care, doesn't mean he doesn't care. Boys and their bravado. Be gentle with him.

My DD went down from set 3 to 4 in maths - she thrived in the lower set, much preferred the teacher, the method and pace met her needs. She did so well they put her up again but she didn't like it - she pleaded to go back down. She got a meritable B for GCSE in the end - from someone thought completely innumerate in primary.

DS on the other hand went down from set 1 to set 2 in maths. He was warned that relying on his mental maths wasn't sufficient - others were just working their arses off and deserved his place. So without telling anyone, over the next year he absolutely killed himself to get back up to set 1 which he achieved. He's now at the top of set 1 - GCSE looming.

No you cant motivate anyone - it comes from within. But sometimes aptitude and attitude dont align and sometimes it just isn't the subject that they get or care about. Fair play. I was dead lazy at that age but just sometimes a really good teacher got through to me. Its tough learning when all your energy and hormones are edgying you....

Thanks for all that he responses.
This morning, I talked very calmly to him. He said he 'just didn't care'.

All his friends are the same, their mums report. Gobby, answering back. Most of them are very bright boys.

And yes his behaviour in school is bad. He's been on report. Once again, all punishments are seen as an attack on him, and cause nothing but resentment from him.

I think school find him very difficult. Dh and I do too. I feel quite sorry for school.

Oh dear. I'm only trying to do the right thing here. But it sure isn't working.