Permanent Exclusion

[Iluvthe80s]

Can anyone advise me on our rights as our DS is being permanently excluded. Mainstream is a struggle for him and we don't feel a move to another MS would be right for him. It would simply create a new problem. His current school have tried their best to support him, but his behavior is untenable despite our best efforts to work with his school and get him additional external support.

Could you ask the school if they could refer you to somewhere locally with a more appropriate / better suited educational provision for your son?

They can't just permanently exclude it has to be a managed move. DD was excluded but moved to a specialist school as a mainstream school wouldn't have worked. Is it constant or 1 very serious incident?

Interhigh?

Make sure you get everything in writing as a start.

Then ask for a copy of all that's been done.

If the school don't have the resources to provide what he needs apply for an EHCP.

Make a list of all the things your ds needs from any professionals he's seen.

This happened to my ds (who has asd). He wasn't excluded but couldn't attend due to various reasons and a managed move was arranged. However the school which took him (which happens to be brilliant) is quite a distance away and all transport etc has to be provided by me. So consider all this when choosing.

His new school actually supported me with getting him an EHCP which I was fighting the la to assess for at the time.

Take deep breaths, read the law and guidance and remember however much of a fight this may be it's not personal.

What has been the procedure so far?

All the information you have already been given in writing, what does it propose? How was your last meeting with HT/pastoral managed?

Are the governors involved?

Managed move, work with the school, they will not want a perm ex either. It's going to be a tough ride but long term may be the better option if you can get his needs met in another setting.Good luck op

It is possible a managed move would not be possible, local authorities vary in messages to heads, in some areas heads are told that the only way to be sure that a child won't be returned to your school is to permanently exclude and depending on the behaviour it may not be appropriate to accept that child back.

In any case, the OP wants specialist provision not another mainstream school.

OP, has the current school gone any way in trying to get an EHCP (education, health and care plan) completed? Have they given you the contact details for the alternative provision in your area?

It would be normal for your DS to be sent to some kind of alternative provision in any fixed term exclusion longer than 5 days or after the first 5 days of a permanent until the exclusion panel meets to decide if they will uphold the decision.

I think school might be trying to pull a fast one here, they shouldn't just exclude and leave you to sort out.

It sounds like he might need an EHCP, in order to help find the best providing for him and to fund it properly. School will set him back in this prices by excluding him. They need to put evidence forward towards him having an EHCP (education health and care plan) and justify why different provision is need. This might take some time, but they still have some responsibility so if he can't be in school they need to arrange and provide for off site provision. They should have a link to a specialist site for young people to attend who struggle to cope in mainstream

The OP has said the situation is untenable, the school have done their best to support him. It's local agreement that decides if the offer is a managed move. Not all headcteachers will agree to them. Permanent exclusions can be used, it's ultimately the decision of the headteacher.
However OP there will be an alternative provision and the local authority can and will provide details of other offers. A permanent exclusion often results in a PRU placement. This partly gives time to set the next steps up, though sometimes that placement itself can cause further distress for pupils. Some advice from watching this process on. Some advice from watching these on numerous occasions, list the priorities of his highest needs (e.g. Shorter session times, hands on learning, quiet areas, key worker). Then ask which place best meets them, visit it, talk to staff. Involve your child. Too often the child is just sent to a place that has a space. If mainstream isn't for him, take this as an opportunity to pursue what he needs. Whilst acknowledging that this isn't going to be as easy as I've outlined above, it can and does work for some.
I wish you every success.

First of all thank you all for your response and advice. Very grateful in what has undoubtedly been the most stressful 12 month period for our son, DH and DD.

DS is 15-ADHD diagnosis late last year after struggling for years at school. Behavior consistently disruptive and rude for a number of months-so an accumulation rather than one off incident. Further exacerbated with him smoking weed since December last year (he is being given support for this). We've been told he will not get an EHCP.

Waiting for an ADOS assessment. He is getting support from a private psychologist we are paying for-to help with anger and conduct issues. Just managed to get a referall to CAMHS for July.

His school have been VERY supportive, but his behavior has made it impossible for them to keep him there despite their best efforts and ours. So we definitely do not feel we have been unfairly treated by them. They have also said they will back our request that a MS school would not be the next right move for him. Its all very stressful-appreciate all your advice

If not another MS, could it be to alternative provision? As others have said, it varies between LAs. The options for us would be a PEX, a managed move to another school or placed in a PRU or alternative provision. We have a city wide inclusion panel that children can be referred to a panel decides the best placement. It would be worth looking into what is in your area. Have you researched?

A PEX is not an easy decision for the school - it costs us £15k to PEX a student. This suggests they cannot see another alternative available. I know we would look at other options to avoid it (ALP/PRU).

Has the school started the PEX process or has it just been mentioned as a risk?

Appeal the refusal to assess for EHCP.

The grounds for assessing are "cannot be supported with resources usually available in Ms school."

The school have this evidence and the LA are probably trying it on!

Use the IPSea refusal to assess pack.

I was also told ds wouldn't get an EHCP. Refused when juniors applied and refused again when I applied 18 months later. Ordered to assess at tribunal and la actually said they still wouldn't issue even if they were ordered to assess
Bare in mind at the time ds was on a managed move that had failed after initial 6 weeks.
They did assess and then EHCP was issued without a fight

Are there any studio schools or 14-19 vocational provision nearby that have a more practical bent? Could that be an alternative option? They tend to have more money to deal with SEN if they are new because new free schools get a post opening grant that tops up their funding, so could be worth investigating?

Genuine question as not an SEN expert but have been involved in the EHCP process which is incredibly long - is there time to do this? Doesn't it take 20 weeks from.m being submitted (and is a huge piece of work). At 15, would this not be a little late?

He will go to a PRU for a period of time where they will reassess him. A huge amount of money is pumped into supporting kids in PRUs.

Where is he getting the money from for the weed?

Thank you everyone again for your advice and suggestions, Very useful.

youarenotkiddingme-We've been told he won;t get an EHCP now because he is smoking weed. and ASauvignonADay yes it can take ages-but would support someone in education up to the age of 25 I believe-so would be worthwhile pursuing for someone not on drugs.

AndNoneForGretchenWieners yes there is one nearby-i do feel a vocational option would better suit him-but need to discuss options with the council to see what is possible at this stage. He;s in year 10-so terrible timing with GCSEs next year. although to be honest, our main concern is getting him mentally back on an even keel. he has years ahead of him to take exams if needs be

CauliflowerSqueeze we no longer give him money, He demanded £20 2 nights ago-I refused -so he hit me. police came around last night to talk to us and if we dial 999 we are a priority for them to get to us. we now have an appointment with CAMHS in 2 weeks time. he has a Saturday job, which we are loathe for him to give up-as although he earns £, its good for him as he is learning a skill and its a positive experience for him. Plus his employer says he works hard and is doing well there. the police who we saw last night (who were lovely) also said its really good that he is able to hold down a job...shows hope)

I'd be asking them what part of SENDCOP states a child who's taking drugs doesn't get support. Ask them to point to out the actual legislation that states that.
Then point out that taking drugs is usually when a child hits their lowest and so he is more in need now.

Please don't let them write your son off with a load of lame and crap excuses. He's a troubled teen who needs help.

youarenotkiddingme thank you I totally agree with you. We've been fighting for him for the past 12 months and won;t give up. I'm just a bit worn out and feeling a bit down about it all today. I miss our lovely DS-we hardly ever get to see him now. He's so angry all the time.

I get that I really do.

I use to take time out and then start again because otherwise I lost the woods for the trees.

I found it better to write what I felt.
Re write without emotion.
Rewrite quoting legislation and asking them directly how they will address that.

If it makes any difference I like you fought I wore myself out and gave in. Wish I'd given in way sooner , the PRU was AMAZING. DD loved it behaviour improved at home, big progress academically , no drama no negativity. I know that's not the case for everyone but I kicked myself for fighting to keep DD in mainstream where she was unhappy and angry to a school where she thrived, very small numbers of students/ loads of lovely staff.

youarenotkiddingme and Lottielottie42 Thank you. Lottielottie42 I'm very happy to read that your DD thrived. Gives me hope!

Just to add to that, we have had Y11s who have been PEXd join us after a stint in a pru, so gone back to MS, and have done really well. So there is definitely hope!

She did this PRU was specialised in behaviour so for some (including DD) there was no plan to return to mainstream and I'm glad. It was so stressful for so many years , my phone alternated all day between DD calling me in a rage/crying and the school calling to tell me all the day's events. They called at least 6 times a day and DD was AWFUL at home getting her up in the morning was so stressful. At the new school it all went, although now we are struggling with what to do in September .

She did this PRU was specialised in behaviour so for some (including DD) there was no plan to return to mainstream and I'm glad
They will assess them as to whether they can be integrated back to MS or not. I agree that MS just does not suit some children, and s pry or ALP can be the perfect nurturing environment.

• a pru or ALP

L