Is this gaslighting or just a 'normal' teen row?

[Myusernameismyusername]

I just want your opinion.

You ask teen to do something to help (a quick household task for instance) and they make a fuss over being asked, and in annoyance about being asked they throw your handbag on the floor outside that you asked them to hold (while you did task) and you almost drive off without it.

You are cross about this episode and state that was not helpful and uncalled for.

In response teen announces that they think you don't really love them anyway, why did you have kids, just get rid of them, and they have no idea why you are upset because they did indeed help you, as you asked and you are very OTT about the whole thing and 'dramatic'.

You lose the plot a little bit and realise you have ended up being the bad guy for getting upset and maybe you are too dramatic in defense of something that is not even true.

How do you deal with this better?

The deal was she could have it if I knew about it, as in she was open with it.
She's chosen to be secretive with it and bordering on using it to be a bully then full on denial of having an account. She's also been indulging in trolling for sympathy and none of it sits right with me - she's not gaining any friends or social skills with it

OP, sorry this is happening to you and your dd. I would say her behavior is "normal" but also unacceptable. How old is dd?
Sounds like she is taking her frustration out on you. But if you continue to tolerate her bad treatment, she might get used to treating you (and others) this way. And that won't win her any friends. So don't indulge her bad behavior.
I would suggest that you punish her in some way next time she is rude to you. Make her take the bus that day, deduct allowance, miss her favorite TV show for this week, etc. Something small but nevertheless makes a point.
As far as having no friends -- what does she think is the reason why others don't want to be around her? Help her think through it. My guess is that she "fights back" too much, that she tends to perceive threat or put downs when none is meant.

I think that's what it is. She does fight back and people give up because she pushes them away when I think she is pushing because she is insecure and wants people to show her she's important?
She doesn't seem to know why or really get it, she blames it on everyone else.

I am frustrated by the long wait for counselling because the longer we wait the less likely I worry it will be effective. I am at a loss how to help her socially now except facilitate opportunities. She doesn't want this help. She is angry but she doesn't seem to want the social side of things as much as I want her to have them.

Okay, but 99% of kids nowadays use social media to socialise and communicate, personally I think it is very socially isolating to prevent kids from using it. And it's kind of like a phone call. You talk about being open but would you really listen into your kids phonecalls to their friends?

I think you have to develop some element of trust in your daughter to use it appropriately. By "trolling for sympathy" do you mean complaining to friends about you and her lot in general? Because all kids do that and exaggerate, mine do it.

Are you perhaps a bit controlling? My best friend didn't let her daughter have social media or a phone (she had both secretly). there were lots of other things she wasn't allowed to do either: having a couple of drinks at a friend's party, staying out later than 10, having sleepovers. All rules made out of love, supposedly for her own good. She was a very unhappy, friendless girl (still is actually). I think there are connections.

I have ended up controlling perhaps because of trust issues. The last time I allowed her to go on a sleepover, she bullied someone online and then was upset at the fall out at school all of her own doing. And she never seems to learn.

I didn't want to police the social media I just wanted her to learn how to have an open and honest relationship with people. Nothing good ever comes of secrets.

As for trolling for sympathy, well pretending to be other people, it seems complex and not with people she knows some of it was strangers and her gave out her phone number. She's too vulnerable IMO, I think social media has a place with mature socially aware teens. She's had social media (secretly) for months and months and hasn't done anything positive with it so I cannot see the benefit.
I didn't make her close it or even make her feel bad, I was gutted about the lies

My dd has social media and I don't check up on her via it.

In fact she told me last week she had a secret FB account as I commented how little she used FB. She laughed and said that's because she set up a new account I didn't know about. I just laughed, found it, friend requested her and she's blocked me!
Which I think is fairly normal. But I do get that if there's been issues with trolling, etc you have concerns. Do you think maybe she should learnt her lesson since then?

How old is she?

Have you tried saying her script before she does?

"Yes I know I don't love you and never let you do anything and am only doing this to upset you, was there anything else? Oh yes I hate you and you hate me. Now we've done that bit, let's get back to the question..."

Another of my favourites is "yes dear, I lie awake at night thinking about new ways to annoy you. This is just today's, wait til you see what I'm planning for tomorrow..."

"Ok, you hate me, I'm devastated and I'll cry all night. Now what about..."

Only do this if she can take it- if she is genuinely fragile, then find a different technique!

She's 14.

I would love her to have a fun happy social media, you know she could laugh at GIF's and meme's and such like (whatever they do) but she's gone to the dark side of it all and it's not fun. It doesn't make her happy she never seems to learn and she gets no enjoyment out of it. Add in the secrecy and your mind goes wild - is she at risk of abuse/grooming??! I think so.

I honestly think you need to trust her more. Treat her more like a normal girl, let her do things normal girls do. Perhaps she is bullying because she has been bullied. Perhaps she is making stuff up to get attention from strangers on the internet because she feels no one is listening to her.

Do you do stuff with her that she wants to do? Do you think you make her feel like she's fantastic or like she's an annoying, troublesome teen who can't really be trusted?

You obviously love her, but do you maybe make her think that you don't like her?

I think it fluctuates with us - we do need more space which is why I want her to have a hobby. You can't be best mates with your mother or 14yo can you? So it's not entirely balanced because she wants me to be her mate and I am not. I'm her mother.

She's lovely. But destructive and resistant to support and even love sometimes, she's hard to love. I like her - the lovely sweet smart girl I know she is but it's harder to like the worse her behaviour is. She always gets hugs and cuddles and chats and my attention.

I make a point of asking about her day and any friends and suggesting new things she could do or try.

I haven't closed the social media I requested that she removed any fake accounts and actual strangers as it's unsafe. I have spent a lot of time talking about trust and safety and I don't prevent anything, I give advice on it. There are 2 particular things she does where she has my full trust and I praise her for it and try to make her feel trusted. She doesn't ASK anything else to be allowed trust with it.

She just simply says 'I get angry' about everything when it goes wrong and I just worry she's vulnerable. I think she has low emotional maturity (counselling before highlighted this) and could end up in a dangerous situation - being coerced is my concern, for attention.

I want her to do what normal teen girls do but she isn't doing any of it and I am not preventing her.

The only thing she does socially is use social media to say hurtful things to people or pretend to be someone else. And on that I am concerned.

She doesn't ask to go to town, friends houses, have friends over, she doesn't FaceTime, she doesn't get invited to anything by anyone. I'm not stopping something that doesn't happen

Based on this I asked her what she wanted and she said Snapchat
I asked her to invite a friend over this weekend or to go to town and she said no

My experience is they often do make major failures and do learn from them, frustrating slowly. My dd has additional needs , sees camhs etc but no sgency will fix these things, they just have to learn like everyone else.Dd can be very bitchy on SM , I don't agree, I tell her what the consequences will be, she ignores, the consequences happen-major fallouts and her being socially isolated, then forgiven, then the same again and again and again , finally seems to have stopped but only after many fall outs and dramas. Unfortunately they are either drawn to drama (like dd) or avoid it like the plague, you have to allow her to learn these things for herself as painful as it is to witness.

Thank you. I asked here about the row and initially all my RL advice from friends was to ban the phone completely but I tried this and it doesn't help. I can see it isolates her more.
I have arranged for her to start a club next week (it's actually volunteering and I have worked hard to persuade someone I know to let her do it) she is reluctant but on this basis of doing this club I downloaded Snapchat for her. She had to go on and remove all the strangers from Instagram. Already she seems happy with having people adding her on snapchat and feeling she fits in. She knows that there is right and wrong behaviour and the consequences of it so I think I will have to let her get on with it 😬

I had some very bad things happen to me when I was a teenager, some my own choices but some not. My parents really had no clue what I was doing and it was so dangerous. I just don't want her to make these mistakes I suppose but I think she will have to (and hope she doesn't!)

It's painful, I dread to think what I'd have got up to should SM have been around when I was a teenager 🤔. I tried to stop dd getting into trouble constantly by stepping in but camhs actually pointed out despite her difficulties she has to learn like everyone else, people will be far less tolerant if they are adults behaving like that so just let them get it out of their system and eventually learn. These issues tend to be the end of the world for a few weeks then they move on, I try and remind dd when she's being bitchy how she felt when it was her they were all bitching about and to think before she jumps on the bandwagon, feel like it generally goes in one ear out the other.

It's the boys/men part that concerns me. The girls part is of her own doing. It's also kind of part and parcel of secondary school isn't it?
My DD2 doesn't like this drama stuff so it's very different with her.

I know first hand about girl with low self esteem + lack of parental boundaries = potential disaster

I clearly have more anxiety over all this than I realised. It's no good for either of us. I am trying to keep her in cotton wool aren't I? And it's not helping . I'm quite upset!

I can see her amazing potential I just don't want her to waste any of it. I try to be empowering too as a woman, she can do anything and be anything she wants to be. I tell her that all the time I wish she believed it!

I do exactly the same panic and read way to much into everything, panic when I hear her on the phone and get the urge to butt in ! I have learnt to bite my tongue a bit but def still interfere a bit. Dd tells me a lot, which is good but definetley triggers anxiety. I think being overly protective can be just as bad for low self-esteem you have to show trust etc but much easier said than done. I have been to hell and back with dd in the last 2 years , so I'm a slight parenting failure but I'm trying and that's all I can do.

Hi, I just saw this today and wondered if you can let me know how this situation all planned out as it was 2 years ago. I’m in the midst of where you were two years ago..
curious , thanks