More ructions - advice please.

[Janstar]

Yes, you've guessed it, Janstar's DD1 again. Things have been average, when she's in a good mood she is fine. When she's not no one can say a word to her without receiving a rude retort.

I got up this morning quite happy, passed her room, asked if she was going out. Yes. I asked where to. 'I already told you yesterday' 'Maybe you did but I don't know. Tell me again' (I'm quite forgetful and she knows this)

Instead of just telling me and maybe having a laugh about how senile I am instead I got a mouthful of abuse. I have been known to just walk away when she is like this cos I don't have the emotional energy sometimes. But I'm so tired of it. She talks to me, my dh and dd2 as if we were s*t. So I argued, asking her why she has to talk to us this way. The answer: 'You have a go at me all the time so I don't give a f*k any more'.

I just thought, enough. Told her she isn't going anywhere today. She can stay in her room. I thought I would give her a reason to speak to us decently and that is that if she doesn't she will be grounded in future.

I left her to cool off a few minutes and when I went back she said she was going out anyway. I said fine, I can't stop you, but if you go I am going to tidy your room how I think it should be. She also guessed, quite rightly that she wouldn't get any allowance next month.

I got all kinds of abuse from her, including she wishes I'd hit her so that I could go to prison, she hates all of us, I'm making sure she has the worst possible childhood. I said no, your father did that, and she said I'm just as bad cos I chose him. She used the f word to me again so the grounding got extended to tomorrow as well.

My brain tells me I am doing the right thing but my heart is in pieces...help! Half of me sees a rude child that needs lessons in manners before she reaches adulthood. The other half sees a damaged child who has had enough hardship from her father in the past. What would you do?

Thank you all for these suggestions. Good point about her not existing but I fear she would claim that she would be happy not to exist...logic plays no part in her arguments! Any other strategy ideas are very welcome.

Custy she is supposed to clean the bathrooms anyway, that is her chore along with babysitting, for which she receives a generous allowance. However we often suspect that she only flicks over the loos, judging by the state of them.

She didn't defy me and go out the other day because she didn't want me in her room, so that worked. But now she has decided to get rid of a load of stuff and has asked me to take her to a carboot. Her room looks like a bomb site, not a square inch of floor to step on. I guess I should be glad she is having a clear-out, though, eh?

Hi Janstar, if it's any comfort I was an appalling teenager and am now a normal, calm, amiable adult (at least I think so), and I think you're doing really well with your daughter. What I remember quite clearly was that I didn't have much sense of proportion about anything, so I could be fired up with enthusiasm and energy about something trivial and then virtually comatose when there was boring stuff to be done. It also genuinely felt as though my Mum was criticising every little thing and as I couldn't tell the difference between the important stuff and the minor stuff, I just didn't try at all. I used to feel that everytime I was with my Mum she was watching out for something to criticise.

One thing I would suggest is a 5-point scale of behaviour acceptability so that your daughter can tell the difference between really bad and just mildly annoying behaviour. So swearing at you would be a 5, and forgetting to unload the dishwasher would be a 1 or 2. And things could be traded-off, so going to a concert instead of Granny's birthday party would be a 3 or 4 because it would upset Granny, but going round the next day and spending time with her doing some of her her household chores would bring it down to a 1. Her aim is to eliminate all the 5s and most of the 4s.

On the bedroom front I would say if it's not attracting vermin then ignore it. Tell her that if she's not embarassed that visiting friends get dirty knicker caught round their shoes, then neither are you. Even after all these years I'm still a bit touchy about my right to keep the private rooms in my flat in any state I like.

FWIW Janstar I think you are taking the right approach with her. My Mum used to do the same and I turned out okay and yes it all sounds very normal teenage behaviour. Does she have a saturday job at all? (sorry I have forgotten how old she is!) but I found when I got a weekend job waiting on I started to act a bit more mature and made me 'act' a bit more adult. maybe you could suggest something like this to her?

You always sound like you are doing a wonderful job though

Hi Bran and Fio. Bran I only threatened to tidy her room because she was planning to go out in defiance of what I'd said. I knew if she thought I was going to ransack her room she wouldn't dare go out, and it worked.

It does irritate me the way she keeps her room but I try not to think about it, as so many people have advised me that it's not a good idea to get involved with it. I often sigh and close the door hoping to keep it out of sight and out of mind.

Fio thanks for your kind words. She earns money from us for her bathroom and babysitting chores, and she makes posters for the local pub landlord and helps him with his new computer. He's giving her a summer job collecting glasses some Sundays. We are looking forward to that as we think it will boost her confidence. We are lucky that she gets on very very well with him.

OOPS! That's torn it then.

Right - ignore her - everything the nice and the nasty and explain to her that you are doing this because she is old enough to understand that in any relationship (partners, brother/sister, parents) you cannot treat someone with a total lack of respect and still expect that person to want to be friends with you let alone nice to you - ask her why she expects you to take her to a car boot when she cannot even speak to you civily - and when she flips - which she undoubtedly will walk away and say 'When you can behave like anything other than a petulant 3 year old we will discuss this - until then I am going to spend my time with *** because I get enjoyment out of my relationship with them that I don't get with you when you behave like this'

Maybe try the I am your mum and I love you but I don;t much like you at the moment thing and do what my best friends mum used to do and say to her I can be a great friend, a great mum, a great confidant and life will be rosey - but believe me I can be a worse enemy and every aspect of your life will be 100 times worse than it si now - she was right too - she was a lovely woman but expected respect and she got it not through being nasty cause it never quite got that far but just through showing her daughters that it was far better to have her on their side in every aspect of their life than against them!!

And as for the comment about her father - remind her that without him she would not be here at all and you may have made some bad choices but you have tried your hardest at every turn to make sure the choices she is making are right and will carry on doing so until she pushes you that far away that you let her do what she wants and believe me she will regret it.

You are a great person and a great mum (even a virtual one) and you have to be strong and stick this out - she will realise - sadly probably not until she has kids of her own - that everything you did was for her own good. XXX

dont worry. But if you are just ask for your last post to be deleted sweetheart

Thank you all for your help with this but think perhaps the best thing would be for this thread to quietly die now before anyone else sees it. Thank you . My head is all over the place today.