Daughter thinks shes male

[rockodog1]

My 16yr old daughter has told me she has always felt she was a boy
She has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers also which came as such a shock to us,she has been attending councellors since she was 14
and prescribed antidepressants
she has social anxiety really bad
Any help please??

[rockodog1]

Thank you everyone for replying to my post
And stop making sense I will look into getting that book thanks

[practy]

No you don't have to have genital surgery. And because the results in trying to create a penis are usually so poo, very few do have it. But this means you will never be able to fully pass as a man. And it is important that someone considering. This knows that. So that in itself creates a whole new set of problems.
If someone is going to transition, they need to do that knowing the reality. Otherwise how can they reasonably consent to this?
Also worth noting that there is some evidence that women who think they might be men, seem to be much more likely to be sexually abused as children. If this is the case for your daughter, then she may need additional support to deal with this sexual abuse.

[Joinourclub]

If I were you I'd explore other avenues for advice. I find this site to be very anti trans. Trans teens have scarily high suicide rates. Telling a teen who identifies as the opposite sex, that they 'will never be that sex' is dangerous imo. The most important thing here is your child's health and happiness, not other peoples definitions of what makes a man or a woman.

[LadyStarkOfWinterfell]

Telling a teen who identifies as the opposite sex, that they 'will never be that sex' is dangerous Imo

I think that telling them they can be the opposite sex is more dangerous. It will lead to impossible expectations that must by definition be disappointed.

Just because a child feels depressed or suicidal is not a reason to indulge their delusions. We don't take that approach with anorexia, or ocd, or other mental health disorders that create deluded and disordered thinking, why do so with sex dysphoria?

[SaltyMyDear]

To the person who asked about positive role female role models - look to sports. Every single female athlete is a positive 'non princessy' role model.

Does your DD play sport? My DD is very involved with a sport. All her friends are from her sports club. None of them are into pink / makeup / heels / boys. They're all into training and competing and winning.

I now really believe sports is the best antidote for girly madness.

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

This thread is full of people sharing their experiences, and their children's experiences. There is also some biological facts stated. That is not transphobic.

I am genuinely scared of trans activism and what it is doing to young people. It's used in some countries as a "cure" for homesexuality, hardly enlightened.

[Stopmakingsense]

This says it all for me, I am scared too

gendercriticaldad.blogspot.co.uk/2016_06_01_archive.html

[EmpressOfTheSevenOceans]

As someone's already said, beware of the "supportive" organisations. Don't touch Mermaids with a bargepole.

[KittyLaRoux]

Telling a teen who identifies as the opposite sex, that they 'will never be that sex' is dangerous Imo

So you think lying to them is safer?

You think a person who spends their life trying to achieve the unacheivable is safe? Because changing your sex is impossible and that person will never rest and never accept who they are because they will never be able to change sex like they were told they could. That to me is much more dangerous than honesty. That, imo is what leads to serious depression and mental health issues in trans people.

[MsKite]

The famous trans girl, jazz Jennings, has been upset recently because she wants to date straight boys but they don't want to date her because they know she's biologically male. This has apparently been a surprise to her. If people around her had been truthful from the start, she wouldn't be disappointed now. These children are being lied roa out what they can have and what will happen. It's not fair.

[AliveAlone]

I'm sorry your family is going through this, OP. It isn't easy.

My daughter, who shows some signs of ASD but has never been assessed/diagnosed, went through a similar phase a couple of years ago, and it did turn out to be a phase. We didn't make a big deal out of it or give the issue much attention, although we did have several discussions about gender. The whole thing just fizzled out as she lost interest.

There was, and still is, no doubt in my mind that she was trying to be edgy and provoke reactions from us and this was her main motivation for claiming to be trans. There was also a strong element of attention seeking involved, aswell as wanting to belong to a group, and be in some way special and different.

I think that by keeping our responses fairly low key we made it easier for her to drop it when she was ready to, because she didn't have to have another big discussion with us to tell us she'd changed her mind.

She has recently started work in an area that some would probably consider to be quite masculine, and has dropped some hints that she may be lesbian or bisexual. I dread to think what could have happened to her mental health and her body if she had been exposed to counselors or other professionals who encouraged her to transition. I am sure she would have found it incredibly difficult to admit that she had changed her mind if we had gone down that route.

[RebeccaMumsnet]

@LadyStarkOfWinterfell

Have reported the thread - message below Hi mnhq
Mumsnet has always been a place where trans ideology can be openly critiqued and where facts can be stated baldly without fear of censorship. Can you please clarify what the rationale was for deleting these posts? Thank you so much

We are happy for discussions to take place, we removed comments for comments like "she might end up being a mutliated" , "get involved with a trans cult group" and "enjoy your new son" which we just felt were taking things too far.

We don't expect folks to all agree on a topic, but a bit of thought about those who are reading and are members of minority groups, not to mention the OP who is looking for support and advice, would be appreciated.

[practy]

I think part of the issue is that so many adults, including myself, have felt like this as a teenager, and grown up happily to be a woman. This seems to be a relatively common experience.
We accept that some teenagers see themselves as lesbian, gay or straight, and then later change their minds.
Being a teenager is a difficult time, and it is always good to recognise this.

[MsKite]

Yes practy, that's what's so horrifying. If you change your mind about your sexuality, fine, no problem. If you change your mind about being trans but you've already had your breasts removed and have grown a beard from taking T, that's not reversible. It's scary.

[WickedLazy]

Agree with the article stopmakingsense linked.

There's a comment about the "trans lie", that it "tells her that she should have her genitials mutilated".

Getting a fake Penis is surely the end goal? And it involves a very invasive procedure, that has varying degrees of success. If you think she is to young to be googling trans penis vs cis penis, then she's too young to ask for one surely?

Also, I disliked my vagina for a while. It wasn't neat, was "fat", was sticky, messy and awkward. It wasn't until I was about 17 and bought a vibrator, I realised that actually, I was quite fond of it after all. I think children agreeing to get rid of genitalia they haven't even had a chance to "get to grips with yet", in favour of genitalia they possibly know frig all about yet, is madness.

And then the issue off children. Does she want to be a mother? That's the only way for her to have a child that is biologically hers. A difference that may not matter to her now, but as the ttc boards show, a difference that does end up mattering to a lot of women.

[VestalVirgin]

Also, I disliked my vagina for a while. It wasn't neat, was "fat", was sticky, messy and awkward

You actually mean your vulva, do you? Because I have no idea how a vagina could be "fat".

Absolutely agree with what you wrote - the fake penis is what most FTT transitioners have as their end goal.

Some MTT just "socially transition" and force people to let them into women's spaces, because they can.
Having more upper body strength than the people who don't want you in their bathroom is sure useful.

A woman has no way of forcing anyone to treat her as male. She has to look male, or only a handful of people will ever respect that she wishes to be treated like a male. (And those people wouldn't treat her any different if she didn't transition, anyway.)

It is rather unintuitive to say that she doesn't "have" to have genital surgery.

A person who has dysphoria about her female body will want genital surgery. A person who has dysphoria about the way men in patriarchy treat her may not want genital surgery initially, but will soon notice that the men who treat her like shit do, surprise surprise, not respect her new identity, either, as long as they can tell that she is of female sex.

[rockodog1]

Milpool yes she is getting loads of support through Lucena Clinic,we live in Ireland btw
She is an extremely quiet girl and a little immature
Her diagnosis of Aspergers came out of the blue
We are a very tolerant family but this has knocked us for six
We support her very well but she had thoughts of self-harming(she never did) But that's when we knew we had to get help for her

[confusedBUTtrying]

My 15 year old daughter has recently come out as a whole host of things including transgender. She's always been a tom boy, preferring trousers to skirts and got on better with boys, but this is a whole other level which I'm struggling to deal with. I'm not sure if its just a phase while dealing with all the normal teenage anxiety things, or if this really is who she is. I remember going through a confused phase when I was around her age, but I'm as "normal" (for want of a better word) as it comes for a 30 something who isn't a girly-girl. I've also always got on better with males than females.

She was attending a LGBT support youth group (I let her go as she told me it was to support a friend who was bisexual, then her whole life started revolving around the LGBT community) and her facebook account was filled with pages relating to it. Her friendship group is mainly made up of people 'on the spectrum' and all she seemed interested in was whatever was going on around the world relating to LGBT. She has a habit of immersing herself in things so I have stopped her going to the group until September which was obviously encouraging due to it being a support group. I've banned the internet except for homework (which with it being the end of the school year appears to be non-existent), I've been through her Facebook and removed all the LGBT pages/groups/and the support group who was a friend. Its not that I don't want her to have the support, but I just want her to step back and look at things without the stuff being rammed down her throat every time she logs in.

Her dad is in the picture although he doesn't live with us (and hasn't for a number of years) and is being as supportive as possible. He too is knocked for six, especially as she confided in me long before she told him and I felt this is one thing where I couldn't go against her wishes and tell him. We both agree that we suspect this could be a phase, and she may well grow out of it, but we also are doing our best to be there and support her without encouraging her just in case she is actually transgender.


We have been in to school to speak to them about what's happening with support there. I'm a little uncomfortable with the amount of support and 'encouragement' the school appear to be giving those pupils who are saying they are LGBT. They have a support group run by the pupils (and due to my daughters age she is one of the leaders now), but facilitated by the Child Protection Officer who said she just sits there and lets them talk about things and only interjects if they cross a line they shouldn't. They are a little too accepting of the self-diagnosis, and from what I've heard don't get the pupils to question whether its right or not. I know providing support is important, but surely they should also be getting the pupils to ask why they feel this way etc?

We sat down and discussed things with her. We pointed out that even if she was to go down the route of transitioning to male, biologically her DNA would still be female. If she wants to cut her hair, wear mens clothes, then fine. Rather than binding we'd rather she wore a sports bra instead as it'll still reduce her bust, but will support her and be less likely to cause permanent damage if she decides she doesn't want to do it any more. We explained that hormone treatment is only given after lengthy counselling to make sure she was 100% sure, and how she would have to live as a man for some time before they would consider surgery. However if she was to start taking the hormones then there is the possibility of it causing irreversible damage to her body if she decided in 10 years she was actually female. I offered to make her an appointment at the GPs to get the ball rolling with the counselling from a specialist in LGBT things if she was sure, but she burst into tears and said she didn't want that as she doesn't want to be treated differently. (Which adds to the "it's a phase" list).

We have asked her to not have her hair chopped short before her final school photos in September then she can have it chopped if she wants, but it will be a hairdresser job! I cut it for her at the minute as I'm not willing to pay £10 a time to have her fringe trimmed every 3 weeks. She's insisting on a binder and wearing a suit to prom. I've said I'm not doing anything prom related until much closer to the time. I am not paying out for a suit now when in 6 months time she may be more comfortable with herself and want to wear a dress like the other girls as she can look stunning in one.

I'm really not sure what to do about things. I've ordered some books online which I'm hoping will help both myself and my daughter work through this. I've sent the links to her dad so he's informed as well. I'm still waiting for them to arrive so I won't recommend them just yet. I have a feeling its going to be a case of wait it out and see what happens.

[LadyStarkOfWinterfell]

I think you're right to limit the online influences but be careful you don't make it 'forbidden fruit'
I think you're making a mistake by not letting her cut her hair and wear suits , they aren't important and hardly the hill you want to die on when you've a child talking about major cosmetic surgery and lifelong hormones and infertility. Let her dress and present how she wants but try to interest her in other things/ people. She's found a subculture and she wants to be part of it. Hopefully she can be diverted elsewhere.

[BeyondCymru]

confused

Can I recommend to both of you btw, www.transgendertrend.com
It is a site written by parents of trans children who are wary of the extremely pro trans narrative at present.

[BeyondCymru]

I agree with lady stark on the suits and hair (though with you on the binding - she could wear a suit without binding though).

[confusedBUTtrying]

LadyStarkOfWinterfell We haven't made them forbidden fruit, we've asked if she will take a break from them until September to give her time to think clearly. It sounds like a long time, but with the amount of time she's away visiting family who know nothing atm over the summer and she's going to be helping me with decorating the house, she won't really be missing them as she'll be too busy.

With her hair she can't make up her mind. One day she wants it left long, with the fringe in her eyes and the bottom of it dying red, the next she wants it cut to her shoulders with no dye and the fringe out of her eyes, then she wants it long again with no dye but the fringe cut, then maybe a pixie style cut. She can't make up her mind hence delaying the decision.

The clothing we're compromising with. I'm not buying the suit yet as I'm on a low income so don't have the money to go out and buy one when I have school uniform for September to pay for yet and her shoes alone are about £70 as she's so hard on them. She already lives in jeans, trainers, hoodies and a baseball cap. She also has mens shirts, but she hasn't worn them since she stopped going to the group.

The break is so that we can try and show her other things out there. I want to show her that she can be female but not be into make-up, fashion, selfies and devote her life to the latest celebrity/reality show. I want to show her that there are women like her out there in the world making a difference despite all the things she hates about being female.

The binding issue is a sore point with her. Unfortunately she's cursed with an ample chest (just like me) which I don't think helps matters. However trying to get her to shop for a plain white (or as near as possible) sports bra for her to wear under her school blouse is almost impossible. I can look online, but she doesn't want me to measure her, and she's still wearing bras I bought for her 2 years ago so the size has washed out so I can't even use them as a guide!

BeyondCymru Thank you for the link. It looks like its going to be interesting reading and I've emailed it to her dad as well. From what I've read it seems to be sharing a similar view to me. Now I just need to find time to sit and do some reading!


One more relatively small issue now is what to do with all the stuff she cleared out of her room a couple of weeks ago as it was "too girly". Its currently in boxes in my bedroom ready to go to the charity shop, and I need the pile of stuff to go (not all of it is hers, but about 15 boxes take up a lot of space, not to mention black bin bags of bedding and clothing) but I also don't want to get rid of it all in case she changes her mind and wants it back.

[respecteachother]

Some of the comments in this thread made me really angry.

"I am genuinely scared of trans activism and what it is doing to young people." Just like homophobic people were scared of the LGBT movement, like racists were scared of the civil rights movement, and like sexists were afraid to give women the vote?

You need to open your mind and see that the thing making life more difficult for gender non-conforming people is people like you. People telling them that they have to be seen a certain way by society because of how they were born. Most gender queer and transgender people just want to be seen as the gender they feel inside, especially by those they love. Maybe some feel they need the surgery and hormones but, (especially with bottom surgery) that's largely down to people like you lot who equate a biological male sex to "being a man" and vise versa.

Ultimately trans people want to be seen (by both themselves and society) as "a man" or "a woman" the reason this equates to surgery is because it's engrained into everyones brains that female genitals & physical characteristics = woman and male genitals & physical characteristics=man

Despite the general opinion on here being that people can irreversibly change their gender and then regret it I know that trans individuals have to go through a rigorous process of psychological assessment and then a long waiting period before they even have access to any hormones or surgery. As a result those who do regret transitioning are extremely, extremely rare. On the other hand the number of trans people we'd have lost to suicide if these options weren't available to them would be a far larger number.

Op listen to your child, is they want to be seen as male then treat them that way, the way you treat them doesn't involve any irreversible change. If your child then decided tomorrow that they've changed their mind no harm would have been done. On the other hand without your support regardless of how things end up your relationship will be damaged, but you have even more than that to lose if your child becomes depressed due to the lack of support from you. If your child wants to see someone support them, no doctor is going to give your child anything irreversible without a lot of steps being taken to make certain it is the right thing. Your child's condition and the links that condition has with gender identity will no doubt be taken into account as well.

Also to the mum who's banned your child from the LGBT group and the internet as if LGBT support groups are some kind of cult. Please stop. You're damaging your child and your relationship with that child more than any youth group ever could.

[BeyondVulvaResistance]

"Your child's condition"
Condition?!
Do you think that is an appropriate way to refer to a variety of neurodiversity that many people on this thread have said they have?

Considering you're so 'right on' and everyone else is comparable to homophobes, you'd think you'd know better.

[BeyondVulvaResistance]

Sorry, that offended me and threw me, and I will respond to the rest of the post in a minute.