Daughter thinks shes male

[rockodog1]

My 16yr old daughter has told me she has always felt she was a boy
She has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers also which came as such a shock to us,she has been attending councellors since she was 14
and prescribed antidepressants
she has social anxiety really bad
Any help please??

[MsKite]

Your dd is very lucky that she had a parent who didn't allow her to jump into trans with both feet, emochild. I feel strongly about this because I wanted to be a boy when I was a child, between the ages of about 3 or 4 until about 8 or 9.
This was during the 70s/80s so the idea of transing children had not caught on, luckily for me.
I was also deleted for stating a biological fact. I don't believe it is possible to change sex.

[Emochild]

It is frightening how many teenage girls in particular seem to think this is a legitimate step

I know at least 3 others in my limited contact with teens

When I was a teen if we didn't fit in with the girlie image, then there were other groups such as goth that we could look to

Social norms just seem so rigid now and the message seems to be very much that if you don't fit then you should change

[EightNoineTen]

I am so sorry you're in this position op. I have aspeger's too and worry I'd be in the same position if I were young now.

I recommend looking at these websites for support and advice:

www.transgendertrend.com
youthtranscriticalprofessionals.org
4thwavenow.com

[HermioneWeasley]

I'm appreciating the votes of confidence - I've asked MN to clarify because to be fair, I can't believe it was just for stating facts as MNHQ are usually fair

[Stopmakingsense]

Just5 that is precisely my concern. That my DD has decided she is a man, and now that thought is set in stone as a reality. That is not the same as gender dysphoria, but I fear that a Gender clinic will simply accept her self diagnosis. Lumpy I agree entirely with you but it is extremely hard to get my DD to look at the situation that way. I am praying that a psychologist may be able to get her to look at the problem differently. She doesn't actually have a diagnosis of ASD but it is something I and now she thinks is likely.
And the casual acceptance of all her peers, which is fantastic in some ways, in other ways simply perpetuates a myth that you can simply swap to the other biological sex. I am not criticising anyone who does need to change gender in order to cope successfully in life, and if this turns out to be the case for my DD then I will wholeheartedly support her. But in the meantime It feels t o me more like she has joined a cult.

[MsKite]

I feel that the professionals who are involved in transing children and young adults are either brainwashed, delusional, incompetent, or perhaps simply don't care about their patients/clients and are experimenting on them to see what happens and make a fast buck. That's just my opinion though of course.

[Stopmakingsense]

And thinking about this further - could it be that someone with ASD who feels like they don't "fit in" and can't really cope with this, reaches for an all or nothing solution - switching to another gender - to try and fix the problem. Is this not something that should be very carefully explored first by clinicians? Give them the tools to become comfortable with who they are?
I can see how my DD can see absolutely NO role models in the media - I.e. Women who don't want to wear make up of wear high heels. Any suggestions of where to look?

[BlueKarou]

This must be a lot for you to deal with, OP. I can't imagine there's a right or wrong way to deal with this sort of thing. My son's not yet 5 months and I'm already dreading the minefield that will be the teenage years, with or without ASD and gender issues.

I think if I were you I would try to keep the channels of communication open; ask your child why they feel this way, support them taking control of their body in as much as hairstyle, clothing choices, etc. I think if it came to it I would suggest that whilst at home we could all just be people for a trial week - take gender off the table and see if that helps this period pass. Definitely wouldn't start talking about anything related to transitioning so soon. If your child brings it up then maybe stick to the facts about it taking a long time and costing a lot and being something to come back to at a later date, rather than not acknowledging it and potentially pushing them further into wanting it.

I don't know much about the specifics of social anxiety at that age, is there anything you can do to work on that (apologies if you're already on it and I'm preaching to the choir) could you focus on supporting that issue whilst waiting to see how the boy/girl thing is developing?

[Just5minswithDacre]

Just5 that is precisely my concern. That my DD has decided she is a man, and now that thought is set in stone as a reality. That is not the same as gender dysphoria, but I fear that a Gender clinic will simply accept her self diagnosis.

I can picture that all too well

What's the plan? Stall and stall until her sense of self catches her up?

[LadyStarkOfWinterfell]

Well she could be male in the future if that is what she chooses

She will never be male. Never ever ever.

[LadyStarkOfWinterfell]

Have reported the thread - message below Hi mnhq
Mumsnet has always been a place where trans ideology can be openly critiqued and where facts can be stated baldly without fear of censorship. Can you please clarify what the rationale was for deleting these posts? Thank you so much

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

She can't ever be male and those who tell her she could are irresponsible and have their own agendas.

If MNHQ are deleting posts for saying that then they should be ashamed of themselves.

[LadyStarkOfWinterfell]

Well apparently they were transphobic comments. 'knowing ' hermione, I find that hard to believe

[KittyLaRoux]

I stated in my comment that she can never be or feel male have i been deleted too?

How can an actual fact such as a male can never be female and vice verser be transphobic

Its not made up. Its not a slur or insult it is a biological fact. All the surgery in the world will not change biology, genetics, dna and all the other stuff. Sheesh mnhq.

[Snowshimmer]

Yes it's best to not lie to children. I think a lot of internet forums give them an unrealistic idea, that they will be able to really change themselves completely, change their body to the opposite sex.

[WickedLazy]

I wanted to dress like a boy from about 11 to 14 or 15. I just wanted comfort. Started to wear boys clothes, then got my hair cut really short. I didn't fit in with the other girls I knew. I knew girls were equal to boys, boys weren't always more intelligent, or more athletic, and didn't get why some girls "acted dumb" and fluttered their eyelashes etc around men. Or were such bitches to each other. Had had friends who were boys in primary school, (all girl secondary, think I'd have got on much better co ed and allowed to wear trousers etc) not just a list of boys I fancied. I felt really lost and lonely. Then I met some local "alternative" kids, and it clicked in my head I could be whatever I wanted to be and it didn't have to have a label. And that I didn't actually care what people thought of me. Loads of the girls lived in jeans and converse or dm's and never wore make up, and loads of the boys wore girls clothes, had pierced belly buttons and wore tons of make up. We were all just people. I experimented sexually (panicked I was a lesbian at one point as I was being refered to as "butch" so often and people were openly asking me was I one) and realised I was just a straight women, who couldn't be arsed with "girly" stuff most of the time. It was actually seeing how sexy some of the boys looked with eyeliner on (the jack sparrow effect) that made me more interested in wearing eye make up to make myself look sexier. Even now my make up is still very "goth" when I do wear it. I quite like wearing a dress and heels the odd time, wearing low cut stuff and my hair is long, and I like dolling myself up sometimes. Like playing dress up. I still feel a lot more relaxed in male or mixed company, could happily sit in our local, hair shoved up in a bun, in jeans and vest top, no make up and trainers with dp and his mates and their partners, but still feel awkward and the odd one out in a group of just women (hen nights, eek!).

Had the "trans revolution" happened back then, before I found like minded or non judgey or snidey friends, I think I could have found myself thinking "maybe that's what's wrong with me" and pushing my mum into taking me to gp. I was so depressed I think she would have, anything that helps etc. As it was I quickly grew out of it, and found out how to be happy with myself and who I am. If this has just come out of the blue, and she's not even sure of her sexual preference yet, it's probably a phase. Does she maybe feel a bit lost too and is clutching at straws?

[milpool]

OP, I think you need to speak to someone about this (not Mumsnet, because all you'll get here is bleating about biological facts and gender not being real or whatever).

You say your daughter is going through counselling - does she have a support team in place? Has she spoken to them about it, or could you?

Whether or not she is transgender, her feelings are valid and she needs a safe space in which to explore them. It may be that she is trans and does want to live life as a boy/man, which is fine. It may be that she doesn't, which is obviously also fine. Whatever the outcome, what she needs right now is love and support to help her deal with this.

[WickedLazy]

Agree with the comment above, lots of love, support and someone (counsellor) she can talk to about anything. Does she have friends or a boyfriend/girlfriend?

[PhilPhilConnors]

The danger with speaking to someone though is that wheels may be put in motion to accept she is transgender, when at her age and given she has ASD, she probably isn't, she needs to learn to be ok with herself, because changing to be male won't do that, and is likely to raise other issues.
Yes, her feelings are valid, and she should be encouraged to be whoever she is, but she will never be a biological male, and particularly being ASD, should never be led to believe that. She must also be protected at this stage from the possibility of hormone blockers and drugs which may leave her infertile. She's only 16, she has a lot of life to live before she can know who she really is.

From reading about this, and going by my own experience, this is very common, and usually passes after puberty.

I wouldn't consider biological information to be bleating.

[Stopmakingsense]

Just5. We are trying to stay very calm, she is going to see a clinical psychologist who can hopefully help her work herself out. Yes and try and stall and not back her into a corner. But I do find it all very hard. And I am extremely concerned since she is 18 and once referred to the gender clinic I see that the one nearest to us offers the following two services: 1. Hormones and 2. Surgery. Nothing about psychological therapy as an alternative.
WickedLady it is great that you found your niche. My DD has always worn jeans and trainers, without a problem. I am just hoping that she can find a way to be herself in the long term.

OP I agree with mil pool that anyone going through this sort of questioning like your DD needs that safe space.

[KittyLaRoux]

OP, I think you need to speak to someone about this (not Mumsnet, because all you'll get here is bleating about biological facts and gender not being real or whatever).

Biological facts are just whatever
Okaaay then.

Why lie to somebody who is ckearly struggling?
Why tell them "yes you can become a man/women" when that simply is not true.
Why mess them up more by showing them something they will never achieve?

[milpool]

Phil it's increasingly rare for hormone blockers to be prescribed for children.

Kitty it all comes down to your perception of gender, doesn't it. To the MNers who think gender doesn't exist and that it's all about biological sex, well, good for them. But plenty of people don't have that mentality. Which is why, thankfully, there are frameworks in place so that transgender people can seek help and support.

I hardly think that stating "well your daughter will never be a man" is helpful to the OP in the slightest.

[practy]

I agree that this is a very common phase for a lot of non feminine girls. I remember as a teenager wishing I could be a boy. Because I simply didn't fit in with the girls who all seemed to be talking about make up and boys. My friends in my early teenage years were all boys. But it passed.
Teenagers are so vulnerable to suggestions about Ho they are. With most things that is fine as they can easily change their mind when older. But hormones or surgery has life long affects.

[practy]

I think it would have helped me simply to know that lots of teenage girls feel like this, and it passes.

[KittyLaRoux]

Actually it is more helpful than telling her yes dear one day you could be a man. Lies only ever bring misery and this is the biggest lie.

There is nothing wrong with saying "choose a more masculine style of dress, cut your hair short and call yourself Bob". That is perfectly fine and something that can be achieved by that person. However what will never be achieved is to change from one sex/gender/set of DNA to another. That WILL NEVER HAPPEN and to state otherwise is ridiculous and very harmful.
People need achievable goals and to pretend the unacheivable is possible will fuck a person up quicker than telling them the truth.