DS (15) wants to take alcohol to a party - advice please

[LoveBeingAMum555]

Hi

DS is 15 and has never really shown any interest in drinking - so far. He has been invited to a party this weekend. The party is at the house of a nice family who have a quiet, well behaved daughter.

Everyone is taking alcohol to the party he says - and he can show me the facebook messages to prove it! I have said that I am not sending him off to this party with cans of cider/lager. He is only 15, I dont want to be responsible for him getting drunk at this party and if I do give him alcohol I dont know who else is going to end up drinking it.

But am I being too strict here? Would you be happy to let your 15 year old go to a party with alcohol? I am going to try and speak to another parent whose kids are going to this party but I need other opinions.

[80Kgirl]

I'm confused now. I thought DC had to be 16.

In any case, I'd want to know that the girl's parents approved of all this. It would be awful if they were simply out for the evening and had no idea that their DD had invited a bunch of friends who all showed up with alcohol when they had never discussed or approved it.

[Bolograph]

I'm confused now. I thought DC had to be 16

They need to be 16 to be bought alcohol (wine, beer, cider) to be consumer at the table in a restaurant while accompanied by adults who make the purchase.

It is a criminal offence (not to do with licensing, or possession) to permit a child under 5 to consume alcohol.

Otherwise, all the "laws" people talk about are licensing laws, to do with who buys what for whom at what age on licensed premises, or bylaws and public order offences to do with behaviour in public spaces. In private houses, unless other less specific laws about abuse, supply of noxious substances, nuisance and so on are breached, children consuming alcohol is entirely legal. You may not like this, but endless talk in these discussions about "the law" is entirely unhelpful.

[80Kgirl]

You shouldn't assume what I like don't like. I'm not fussed by how other people raise their teenagers. I just want to understand what the base requirements in law are of me as a parent concerning children and alcohol.

[Motheroffourdragons]

We had a 16th birthday party at home for one of ours. We were present and had supplied a very small amount of alcohol. They all turned up though with huge amounts, obviously supplied by the parents.
I was quite shocked tbh. As he was old in his year, Sept birthday, most of the kids were 15. Anyway, fortunately all was well, nobody died. But never again tbh.

Sorry not really helping, it is a minefield, I never knew what was right or wrong. We are living on the continent now, so it is legal for 16 year olds to buy beer and wine, so it has taken the decision out of my hands :)

[BBQsAreSooooOverrated]

I would let my dc take a couple of lagers or cider. I know what I was like at that age, raiding parents drink cabinets for ouzo etc and decanting into a pop bottle
I'd rather I gave them something more sensible.

[JeanGenie23]

I think talk to the host parents and see what they feel about this. But at least your son is telling you.
Buying a weak alcopop isn't the worse thing ever, it's better than him going into a dodgy shop and getting it hinself

[Leopard12]

I would give him some beer/cider/alcopop at that age I knew my parents would say no so my friend got someone to go in the shop for us and I ended up unconcious from drinking straight vodka, best to know what he's drinking! (not spirits!)

[Forevertiredzzzzzz]

I have never brought DD alcohol, in the house she has tried cider, wine etc in small quantities but yet every weekend she managed to get hold of vodka . They find a way of getting it whatever you do but if advise either not or a few weak alcopops. DD has currently got a kidney infection and inflamed stomach after drinking cheap vodka (called vodcat or something smells like nail varnish remover)- proud mum moments

[DebCee]

There is a lot of evidence that children whose parents buy them alcohol drink more than children whose parents don't.

[meowli]

It is legal for anyone over 5 to drink alcohol. The restrictions apply to purchasing (under 18) and location – in licensed premises, in public or in alcohol exclusion zones.Police have powers to confiscate alcohol from under 18s drinking in public spaces (e.g. in the street or in parks).

^^ From the Alcohol Education Trust website.

[BigGreenOlives]

He's year 10 presumably rather than young yr 11, how about 2 cans of low alcohol beer?

[Bolograph]

There is a lot of evidence that children whose parents buy them alcohol drink more than children whose parents don't.

There is some evidence, and like most retrospective, uncontrolled, small-scale studies it is full of methodological problems. Are people whose parents don't drink more likely to under-report because they see drinking as shameful or to be kept secret? Are people whose parents do drink more likely to over-report because they couldn't care less and just want the questioner out of their face? Does the difference between drinking 3 and 6 units a week matter for anyone who isn't secretly in favour of prohibition?

Statistical claims about behaviour around legal, socially acceptable "sin" goods are almost impossible to make without vast error bars.

[Bolograph]

I just want to understand what the base requirements in law

You started out by stating that it's flatly illegal, without caveats.

[80Kgirl]

Yes, I was wrong. Others pointed that out, so I've followed up to try to bottom it out and get my facts straight. That's what's so nice about chatting, no?

[Bolograph]

The reason I get irritable about "the law" being invoked over 15 year olds drinking alcohol is similar to why I get annoyed about people claiming it's "illegal" to use Facebook under 13 or "illegal" (Data Protection, innit?) to take photographs in school halls.

If you think that the law is a lengthy and arbitrary list of things you can't do, and the reason you shouldn't do them is that they are in that list, you (a) promote the idea that the law is arbitrary (b) promote the idea that you can set your behaviour on what is legal (ie, all unwise things are illegal) and (c) you make people sceptical when they are told about things that really are illegal. It's bad social policy.

If you think children shouldn't drink when young, articulate why and convince others (including the children) to agree with you. Saying you shouldn't because it's illegal is (a) ineffective if the legal claim is true and (b) counter-productive if it isn't.

As you say, it's worth discussing it. But as a general rule, with regard to parenting, almost everything you are told is "illegal", short of frank abuse and outside assault, isn't. Leave your child at home alone for three hours at 11 years of age spodding away on Facebook while sipping Vodka: it makes you a bad parent in most/many eyes, but nothing about that is illegal. It might be deemed to be abusive and neglectful and engage social services, and it might be sufficient to have your child taken into some sort of care, and a prosecutor might be able to show it's part of a pattern of behaviour which is criminally neglectful, but none of the acts are of themselves illegal in isolation.

[BigSandyBalls2015]

I have two 15 year olds and one has started going to parties and wanting to take booze with her, it does seem very common at this age. I give her two small bottles of cider and ask her to just stick to that, not to have anything else, or mix drinks.

Def no sleeping over at these parties, I always collect. DD did seem quite tiddly at the weekend when I picked her up - but her sister said she was 'being a twat and pretending to be drunker than she was to impress her friends'.

[alaspoorderek]

Nope, I would be asking why school age children need to take alcohol to a party.

[leonardthelemming]

We are living on the continent now, so it is legal for 16 year olds to buy beer and wine, so it has taken the decision out of my hands

This is interesting. I was aware of it, and have often wondered whether it would be better over here (rather than the "all or nothing" approach that forbids teenagers from buying any alcohol at all until they reach 18, and then suddenly lets them loose on anything and everything). I was speaking to a nurse recently - who has quite possibly had to deal with the aftermath of excessive teenage drinking - and she felt that if 16-year-olds could legally buy wine/beer/cider (but not spirits) and could drink it in a pub, they would be less likely to get paralytic in the park. It seems plausible, although I agree with bolo that obtaining reliable statistics about this sort of thing is extremely difficult.

We were fortunate that we were never confronted with this issue. DS1 was at boarding school when he was 15 (which is not to say he didn't drink). DS2 lived at home but home at that time was in Southern Africa and for safety reasons driving at night was not recommended and walking was just not done. The consequence was that teenagers attended adult parties (behind a security fence) with their parents. It worked surprisingly well - there were enough teens for them not to feel out of place, and they were allowed alcohol (but with so many adults around they tended to moderate their consumption). Can't really see it happening here though...

[Motheroffourdragons]

To be honest, leonard, I'm not sure whether it makes much difference, except the kids to go the pub after school on a Friday, which is a bit of a culture shock!.

It's as cheap as soft drinks as well....

[meowli]

Nope, I would be asking why school age children need to take alcohol to a party

The thing is, we have to deal with the real world, not a Blytonesque Utopia where teenagers still content themselves with long bicycle rides, picnics in the country and lashings of ginger beer.

[PirateFairy45]

He is 15.

Legal age is 18. Are you stupid?

[Bolograph]

Legal age is 18. Are you stupid?

The legal age is 5. If you'd read the thread, you would know this and not look, well, stupid. Stop throwing around bogus claims about the law, which are not true. Note above quote from the Alcohol Education Trust.

[cressetmama]

We are being asked this question by our DS, who is almost 17. As he has been allowed regulated amounts of beer at home for about a year, I'm not worried about him drinking too much and certainly he won't get paralytic. But I do wonder if I should tuck a condom or three into his pocket discreetly? I am much more worried that he knows little or nothing of sex (no girlfriend yet, but this is the first proper party) and would hate him to face any comeback at this age. Apologies for the hijack.

[LoveBeingAMum555]

Wow, some interesting views. I am trying to be realistic about this. I would much rather he didn't touch alcohol until he was 18 - or older - but in the UK in 2016 it is simply not going to happen, whether I approve of it or not. I am still undecided whether to ring the parents but as I said before I think that if I was organising a party for twenty 15 year olds I would expect some kids to turn up with alcohol.

It has definitely been helpful to hear other opinions though.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

Legal age is 18. Are you stupid?

Oh the irony