Can't cope anymore

[bobalinga]

My 14 yo daughter has always been highly strung but since hitting 12 thngs have gone from bad to worse.
I've always home educated her (and her brothers) and done the 'Taking children seriously' type of parenting with no punishments, plenty of discussion, no rules etc and her brothers have turned out caring, thoughtful and pleasant. SDhe however, is uncaring, self centered, rude, aggressive, mean etc She goes out and doesn't call, treats me like dirt, is only happy and nice if we buy her things. Her friends mums tell me she is sweet natured at their houses.
Now she has started hanging with a friend who's dad is Mister laid back who thinks being on the dole and drinking all day is cool. He tells her I'm mean, if I call his house to see if she's care I hear him in the background taking the mickey and telling her I'm a bad mother. Its like he has total influence.
Short of locking her up i can't stop her going out and just don't know what to do. I'm afraid she'll get raped or attacked cos she thinks she is immortal and takes stupid risks. Listens to no-one but this dad. She now no longer studies and is just lounging about reading computer stuff all day.
I feel like chucking her out as I don't know how to get through this. Its like she has Narcissistic personality disorder.
Any advice? Tips? can it get better?

I'd send her to school. Then at least some one else can have a go at controlling her, and you will have more support.

She needs boundaries. Perhaps imposing rules and punishments is what she needs. OK so it worked with her brothers, but they are all different. I don't understand how you can raise a child without some basic rules.

Maybe she is the way she is because she wants you to impose some punishments to show that you care.

Then again, she may just be a contrary teenager who is a mass of hormonally charged contradictions.

Agree with both freckle and elastic.
I'd send her to school. Perhaps the home-schooling environment is too suffocating for her.

Quick question - you mention your relationship with her but what about her dad?

I teach lots of teenagers (around 180). I find that they are often happier with predictable boundaries. Some kids are great without....but in my experience these are not that common. Positive, supportive, predictable dicepline is a good thing in my experience.

It sounds like she is pushing until she finds a boundary. Set the boundaries where you want them. She will still push....that is in the nature of the teenager, but it will be easier on you all

In tghe last year we did send her to school and impose rules. She spent a year in school and has now left, against my wishes.
All she wants to do is hang out with her friends (who are all home educated) at various parties and camps (who wouldn't) yet her friends are starting to do college courses and getting jobs. Things that will leave her behind.
She's marginally more polite to her dad but even he got ticked off when she suggested we had our 2 yo adopted (she is severely brain damaged and requires 24 hour care) so she herself wouldn't be inconvenienced.
I'd love to send her to boarding school but we could never afford that and the local comp is pretty awful and has no spaces. Plus, how do you make a 14 yo actually go?
But thanks for the input. I've been reading other threads and now realise its not just me. It seems like all the other Home ed teens are wondrous, except mine!

Martianbishop has hit it on the head. It's about boundaries. And trust me... they push them till they hurt (us sometimes more than them). She needs to know where the boundaries are so that she is safe to be her.

Consistency is the key. Let your no be no etc.

It is the law that a child of her age be educated, either at school or at home. As you are not now educating her, tell her that she is breaking the law by not going to school and does she want the police involved?
Also, physically take her to school and work with the school in keeping her there. Check up on her, keep on her back. If you didn't send her to the local comp and can't afford boarding school, were you using a private school? The local comp can't be any worse than no education at all which is what she's now getting. At least with a state school you can insist on getting help with a difficult child, where a private school can just chuck her out at the first hurdle.

The existence of a very needy younger sibling explains a lot about her behaviour. I'm sure you and dh/p must have been very hurt by the suggestion of adoption but it doesn't surprise me at all that she said it.
Do not expect her to have the same emotional involvement with the child as you and dh/p have. She is at the stage of pulling away from family; she didn't ask for or decide to have this sibling.

You're in a difficult and unusual situation and there must be help available for you from social services, surely? Are you getting all the help to which you are entitled?

If possible, try not to worry too much. The key thing I noticed here that you said was that her friends mums say that she is sweet natured at their houses. She isn't a lout who couldn't care less - she's just pretending to be for you. I know it's incredibly difficult but I think sometimes you've just got to hang in there and let them know that you are not giving up on them regardless and continue reinforcing the warnings. I don't believe that it has anything to do with her not going to school. We had similar with one of our children and that child went to school. 'Narcissitc behaviour' sums it up nicely. She is what she is and it sounds as though you have done a great job so far if everyone outside finds her good natured. With your support she should get through this difficult stage. Try not to take her hurtful remarks seriously - she probably doesn't really mean them. Hope this stage is a short one for you both.

What is the 'computer stuff' she is reading all day?

The computer stuff she reads is Manga fan fiction and she writes short stories herself. And she IM's her friends a lot.
Yep, she was at private school for a year. the in-laws paid but after a year she was fed up with it (and to be frank, way ahead of her peers academically and very bored. Which is why I started HE at 7 for her all those years ago)
Elasticwoman- yes, the law requires an education but the form that it must take isn't set out by law and daughter had read the education act so i can't force maths and things on her. Having said that, at 14 she has already done the GCSE's in maths and science so we have a couple of years before she falls 'behind'.
I'm not worried about her education, its just her vile uncaring behaviour that is doing me in and how she makes life unpleasant for everyone. When her friends come over they are polite and i think rather embaressed by how she speaks to me.
To be honest I'm relieved that she is off at friends and home education camps so often and I feel awful for saying that :-(

There is a lot of money thrown at Gifted & Talented these days. (I haven't read all the threads on MN about it, maybe you have.)
I see why you don't want to send her to local comp, but maybe she can go on the G & T courses, if you haven't already explored that avenue.

I think she is in danger of sitting back on her laurels, and needs further challenges. The devil finds work for idle hands, and I think if you can give her some direction, some motivation to build on her success so far, the behaviour and good manners thing will be easier to deal with.

I can only echo what others have said, and particularly agree that the G&T program may be just what she needs to give her something to challenge her.

By the way, nice to see MartianBishop back. We've all missed your words of wisdom and I hope your husband is coping. He's very lucky to have you.

Can I ask a question, and please feel free to tell me to mind my own buisness?

You have mentioned that you adopted a child who is now two, and has special needs. Did the deterioration of your dd's behaviour link into this event? You see I have taught several children who's behaviour got worse when a younger sibling came along . In thise cases think the kids were acting up to get more attention from their parents because the were afraid (wrongly) that they had been 'pushed out' of their parents affections by the younger child.

I know it seems crazy but teenagers can often act very like toddlers and will be happer with 'bad attention' as long as they get the attention.

I really do feel that setting obvious boundaries for you dd is the key. But they will not work over night, particularly if you have previously run a 'no rules' establishment.

However horrid she is behaving you may well find she is doing this because she is unhappy, and she may well be making herself as miserable as she is making the rest of the family.

Definitely agree that Teenagers are like Toddlers.But worse! I am a paediatric nurse and I agree she is attention seeking,probably in reaction to the arrival of her sister but also perhaps as a contrast to her brothers' good behaviour,IYSWIM.
My eldest daughter took the SIM card from my phone when I was pregnant and at risk of having a premature delivery.When I took her to task about it and said'you put your friends before the health of me and the baby' she replied'you said it'. I nearly strangled the little....
Just be reassurred she is not the only teen like this,I am sure discipline is the answer and resolve(!) to be firmer with my others!
DD1 nearly 18 now and much better!

I do agree with what MB and others have said about boundaries, but have also had another thought. What about work experience? If it ties in with something she likes doing, this might really motivate her. After all, kids in mainstream ed get this opportunity at not much older than her. I was thinking publisher or magazine/newspaper office.

Oh, great idea elasticwoman. I have seen work experience help kids like this a lot. Excellent idea. It helps them to realise that everyone expects a certain level of compliance....that is isn't just mum and dad who nag....employers expect you to behave well too!

Plus the positive side of being more adult etc etc

How about looking at college instead of school? My DD thrived in college.

Sympathise about the Mango... DS is spending way too much time downloading the stuff.

Mango?? I mean Manga!

I.m sure you have done your best to be a good mother. But children need boundries and rules.. Teenagers in particular need some boundries as they often find growing up hard and feel safer if they have thes biundries in place.

Bobalinga have you asked for opinions on this site? TCS website
and have you had a look around the Sandra Dodd site ?

Thanks for all the advice. When she gets home again she nd I are gonna havea serious talk.
Work experience sounds good - what age can she get a job at? I figure if she wants clothes and money for all these train fares then she needs to earn some. We're on benefits and can't even afford Oxfam lately yet Dd wants new clothes weekly (I'm assuming thats normal teenage girl behaviour)
I have looked into TCS and I know Sandra Dodd (I lived in the States for a bit) and she berates me for being strict and says this is why dd is acting up!!

Regarding money....at the moment she gets her child benefit and is expected to buy all clothes/tckets /girly stuff etc out of it. She's always begging for more. Does anyone think a 'fining' system of punishment would work? So if she's vile to me or fails to do some chores then she loses money? Money does seem to be the only thing she cares about.
I've not done it before as I've really been into TCS and it just seems so adult=power but reason and discussion are getting me nowhere. I wonder if it would breed more resentment and if punishments actually work.

Get her flippin whipped into shape, your the mother and she is the child. That is the way it is and shall continue to be until she is 18 years of age - then she can do as she pleases.
Why's she on the computer if she's being a shit? Daughter being a shit = no computer time. If she isn't gonna respect you, take away all of her goodies. No tv, no music, no pocket money, no computer, no going out and if she does lock the door and leave a sleeping bag outside for her for when she comes back. If she threatens you with social services hand her the phone - call her bluff. If she does ring them do you actually think they'll take her seriously? No they wont, she's a silly teenage girl having a tantrum cause she hasn't got her way. She needs boundries, and needs to learn not to step over them.
And when she can finally learn to be respectful and does good, reward her. eg daughter does the dishes, makes you a cuppa tea and speaks nicely to everyone = 1 hour computer time. If she starts being bad again take it all away from her, she'll soon learn. Tough love is sometimes the best love!

My daughter is being absolutely horrible to me,she is 16.We left her for the first time and she had a party without our knowledge and we came back to a trashed house,last weekend.A friend was staying-not 30!We have a severely brain damaged son,18 years old.I let her get away with far too much because (a) My mother was cruel and over-punitive and everytime she didnt get the compliance she wanted she threatened to put me in a home,even packing me a suitcase on occasions which terrified me. (b) the severely disabled sibling. Shes a lovely girl outside the home and did well in her GCSES.I think Ive over compensated for the reasons above.A two pronged attack I feel is required.Talking to her and punishing her.She calls me a pillock and sticks a finger up at me-Ive had enough.I love her to death,I love her unconditionally,but I am in despair too so don`t feel alone!