I think school is going to ask DS to leave

[sighbynight]

Long story short: Ds2 (14 v soon) has been having a rubbish year at school (independent, for information). In constant trouble for shouting out in class, constant rebellion, occasional violence. His grades have collapsed. He's had Friday detentions, escalating to a Saturday detention, now after another incident we are being called in to see the headmaster. I think this is last chance saloon before he is asked to leave. They won't want him entering his GCSE years like this. They have been very clear about the behaviour they expect and he is either unwilling or unable to comply.

DS1 and DD1 are at the same school - no problems with them. The problem isn't what school are doing. DS2 has real mental health problems. I suspect depression and anxiety. He's had suicidal thoughts. He is on the waiting list for CAMHS but that is months off. They are so hard pressed that he won't meet any of their criteria anyway. He sees a counsellor but I don't know what he is supposed to get out of it. At home, his behaviour is worse than school, if anything. His moods dominate the whole family.

I really do not, do not know what to do.

Providing DS2 is agreeable I'm going to try for the ASD assessment & take it from there. If it turns out we're wrong in thinking he has it, at least we'll know, & can look at appropriate therapy for whatever he does have.

(DD2 is a social worker & fairly tuned in to this stuff; she is convinced he is on the spectrum & was delighted to see the clinical-partners links I sent her)

If the school isn't working for him, remove him. Good idea to keep a foot in the door as you suggest, but he may be feeling compared unfavourably with his siblings, he may be bored, whatever.

At DS's school they get them to sign a contract if behaviour / application not working. If they don't keep the contract, out they go. Does your school do that? If you want him to have one last shot, could you suggest something like that?

But he sounds as if either he is in denial or has limited self awareness and theory of mind.

The school does do a lot of special needs stuff, but more geared to dyslexia than mental illness. I can't fault school. They have been very patient.

If he were not at this school what would he really really like to do with his life? iAcademic qualifications can be added alongside apprenticeships etc. but if he wants to be a professor, then he should stay at school...

Whereabouts in the north op? I'm in South Cumbria and know a fantastic counsellor who I think deals with teenagers too. PM me if you want details?

They can't just ask him to leave
It is an independent school. They won't ask, they'll tell. The phrasing goes 'There is no longer a place for your child in this school.'

OP, you need to look for an alternative.

Travelledtheworld - thank you for posting that link. Can i ask have you used or know someone else who has used clinical partners? The site looks impressive but a personal recommendation would be the thing.

I am sadly in a similar situation to you OP, you have my sympathy.

Is it worth having an Educational Psychologist assess him? An independent one could and after assessment they may be able to offer some specific insight for you.

Does the school have any pastoral support? Could they recommend counselors/psychiatrists etc?

My dd has had MH issues - depression and anxiety at a similar age. Also in independent schools. Luckily the school were immensely supportive -recommended therapists etc. She now has a prescribing psychiatrist and a therapist (and I still live in a bit of fear the school will say she shouldn't stay because of her patchy school work). We also had a full neuro-psych assessment done which was immensely helpful.

We are lucky we live where these kind of resources are plentiful (if costly). You really do need a full neuro-pscyh assessment to know what is going on. worst case scenario, take the money you are spending on school fees and pay them to someone in London to do that?

It is really hard-I wish you all the very best. depression in teens often manifests as anger. and it is so hard to make a teen see consequences of actions.

I mainly lurk but the special needs boats on here has really helped me. It could be worth asking to have this moved.

Rather than just getting one assessment done. I would consider getting a private multi disciplinary assessment completed.
I paid for an OT assessment for DS1 at Belle Vue House, Ormskirk. They were excellent.
They do a multi disciplinary assessment with a consultant, educational psychologist, salt and OT. It's over 2 days and I believe they can provide accommodation.
I wish I had done it with DS1.

Good luck with everything X
I don't mean to sound flippant at all, but if the school is contributing to his unhappiness it may not be the best place for him? From what I've been told most independent schools aren't best suited at all to coping with any additional needs.
If they do ask him to leave then fingers firmly crossed it's a blessing in disguise xxx

I am wondering if he has more control over his behaviour than you think if you say he behaves well for alpha male and younger female teachers. Could you ask for him to
be mentored by a teacher that he has respect for and will behave for?

Oops - Special needs boards not boats x

Tried to namechange for this but I can't remember my password!
I also have 4 dc. My ds2 was very similar to your lad. Always in trouble at school, at an indi who just had had enough. A week before the end of the summer term in y9 they called me in for the final talk, and it was basically remove him, or expect him to be expelled early on in y10.
I withdrew him there and then, we went home and he ran through a crazy list of state schools he fancied going to ( ones where his rugby mates went and behaved badly, plus we were miles from all of them) i explained he wouldn't get into any of them and he was gutted, obviously he had no idea how state school admissions worked.
We all cried and fretted for a day or so, then I remembered a small private school (20 miles in the wrong direction from home for work and the school the others attended) that had a good rep for being really good at pastoral issues.
He agreed to give it a go for the entrance test to start with.
Any way he ended up there, at that time i only was looking for education to 16, just trying to keep him learning until then, no real plan.
The end of the story : first team rugby for three yers, head boy, now currently at very prestigious uni studying a subject considered very diffiuclt to get into. Still a bit stressy and high demand but a different man.
I think he needed to get to the point where he really discovered that he could not continue with his behaviours as before ( we had offered him counselling but he refused)
Sorry, massive epic essay, but i would definitely pull your boy out of this school, and start the search for one that is a better fit for him. It may well be a pain for everyone else but the payoff for them will be in terms of his improved self esteem and moods. ( mine mostly got the bus but any afterschool activity involved a 2 hr trip home from work for me, pick up the others, then miles across a big conurbation to collect him!)

I always mention Interhigh when people talk about these sorts of problems because I know a few people it has worked well for:

www.interhigh.co.uk

Oh and meant to say good luck - it sounds difficult.

I think there's a very high chance he has ADHD, Aspergers or dyspraxia. with all of those conditions you really can't control (some of) your behaviour. Depression and anxiety are also symptoms of those conditions.

So I wouldn't be going for CBT, counselling or a psychologist.

Different people diagnose those conditions in different parts of the country. If you want to try on the NHS ask your gp. She may refer you to a paediatrician or to CAMHS.

Otherwise an educational psychologist or an occupational therapist may be able to help.

I'd concentrate on getting an assessment / diagnosis first, then work out what to do about schooling once you know what his problem is.

I've just realised I didn't say - my ds1 has aspergers, dyspraxia, some hypermobility and attentional difficulties. The diagnosis for those on the NHS took a couple of years.

You guys are amazing. Thank you for the time you are all taking. I'm reading all of this and taking it all in.

And Ive just reread one of my messages upstream. Where I said physiotherapist I meant psychologist. Gah.
I think at the meeting next week I will propose taking him out with work supplied for a couple of weeks and dedicate that time to getting a thorough private diagnosis and a treatment programme in place.

So hard our daughter is going through the sane thing.
With the suicidal thoughts though I would take him to A&E and tell them your worried and it might push quicker for cahms!
Has he said what he's depressed about?
Is everything ok at school friend ships school work/ teachers?
Has he had any big changes in his life!?
I would also look on his computer and check messages as there might be something going on in the back ground.

For you get out of my room was a great book and also give MIND a call and speak to them. I called them and a lady called me back and spoke to me for an hour on another day and I actually found it beneficial.
All the very best for you and your son xx