When do you just give up with a badly behaved teen?

[noideahowtohandlethis]

I've changed my name for this but am a regular.

I have a ds who is 13 and have no idea what to do to make him work at school. We have tried everything, the school seem to have tried everything.

We have grounded him, stopped all 'fun', even stopped him catching the school bus with his mates, school have stopped breaks and lunchtimes, nothing works, he just seems to be apathetic to all punishments.

We have gone down the other route of rewarding him for doing work, this works for a while but drives his big sister mad, as she quite rightly points out, she did work and never got anything for doing it.

He has a violent temper but only at home, he throws things, has done real damage to our home (an iron hitting a landing wall does neither of them any good!).

He has had a bit of a scuffle with his stepdad whom he normally gets on with incredibly well and this morning he threatened to hit me, I wouldn't give him his bus fare until he had cleaned his teeth. He cleaned them and then said, quite calmly "if I have missed my bus I will come back and hit you" His dad was violent towards me and he did witness some things that a child shouldn't see.
I think on some level that incident with his step dad gave him some sort of confidence that we genuinely cant physically make him do something because he thinks we are scared of him smashing things and hurting us.

We are wating for the day when we say that he is grounded he walks out, or we tell him he can't watch tv and he just switches it on, he has used the phrase "you can't make me" over several things recently. We have asked to be referred to the Child and Family Psychiatry centre but we can't.

Having said all this he is a lovely boy for a lot of the time, he dances around to music when he thinks we can't see him, he is so enthusiastic about showing dh new things he ahs found on the playstation (no he doesn't have one in his room, doesn't have a tv either).

I'm sorry, noideahowtohandlethis I also have no idea. Just wanted to say that it sounds like you're doing everything you can. Rewarding good behaviour and following through with punishments.

I was a very, very, very lucky mum when my son went through his teenage years, he's 21 now. We only had a couple of "incidents". I just wish I had a magic answer for you.

FWIW - I always made it very clear if he didn't want to follow my rules, when to come home at night for example, he did not have to live at my house. I paid the mortgage, bought the food, his clopthes etc. If he didn't like it, he knew what he could do. (Saying things like that makes you realise that you have indeed, turned into your mum!!)

I was never forced to put that into practice, thank god, but as I had always followed though in past with punishments, I think he didn't want to see if I would actually would chuck him out.

Once when he was about 12, I told him that if I caught him playing with his Playstation before finsihsng his homework. I would not let play it again for a month. "Yeah sure" was the reply. The next time he did it, I cut off the plug!!! Not saying this is the right way, just saying it was right for me.

Has this behsviour just started suddenly or has it been a gradual thing? My thoughts are with you and I'm sure some wiser mumsnetter will be able to offer some advice.

Hi,

Dont really have very much advice either, my Ds will be 14 at xmas, and he has been getting into trouble at school recently.
Not doing homework, being gobby in class, lateness etc.

I had to have a meeting with his head to discuss how to deal with him, and in the meeting Ds cried. Hes not perfect by any means but he really does hate hurting me.

I personnally dont agree with rewarding them for doing what they all have to do anyway.

My Ds is on report at school so all his teachers comment on his behaviour and work for each lesson, I have told him if he gets any bad marks whilst on it, his PC time will be taken away each day he gets a bad mark.

I really dont know what to suggest regarding the out bursts at home, have you tried to go through your Gp?
My son sees a chap at the school who he talks to, and he has been very helpful. Maybe contact the school and see if they offer this kind of help?

I really hope you get the help you need with this, i know how hard it is to even like them at times, so i hope it gets sorted for you. Good luck.

Sympathy & hugs, nihtht {{}}

Might he be interested in doing martial arts? He would be able to work off some physical energy - and they are supposed to be very good mental discipline and learning about not throwing your weight around, but you don't need to tell him that!

Is he aware that if his relationship with you breaks down far enough the alternative for him would be going into care? Or does he think you wouldn't do that?

I have DS of 13. He is incredibly clever and sails thought school putting in no effort at all. He has GCSEs coming up next summer and his teachers told me at the meeting this week that, if he puts a tiny bit of effort in he could get A* in almost every subject.

I went home and told him this and said 'can you just try a bit harder'. He shrugs his shoulders and says 'I know I'm lazy'.

DH says 'you are not lazy, just unmotivated'. DS says 'Dad, unmotivated means lazy'.

We know he is lazy, he knows he is lazy. But how do we motivated him to work harder? Threaten to stop pocket money... he doesn't ask for any anyway and never goes shopping. Stop playstation... he just shrugs and says he isnt bothered about it. Cannot stop computer use as he needs it for homework. Cannot stop chocolate coz he doesnt eat it.... it's a brick wall whichever way we look at it.

At least he isn't aggressive and violent thank god... just apathetic.

Sorry... DS is 15 not 13.

ok well for a start hes lovely some of the time ,so its in his heart and soul to be like that . It sounds like he is pushing his boundaries to see how far you will go . I have said this before but discomfort and inconvieniance can go a long way to helping them realise that you are not to be messed with , if he doesnt brush his teeth ,make a big deal next time he comes near you , along the lines of urrgh your breath stinks and your teeth are all coated ,good job im not a girl you fancy otherwise i would of been sick , bad behaviour - oh dear all your ps2 games appeared to have mysteriousley mixed themselves up in the cases , same with cds etc . Oh dear you have no pants to wear ,your favorite t shirt has disappeared ,shove as far down back of drawers as possible . do you get the picture ? if he threatens to hit you again ,tell him you will wait till he is asleep and shave his eyebrows off ,let him catch you coming into his room at an ungodly hour ,razor in hand . Now all this may seem a bit immature ,but it is fighting with fire ,if he thinks he has sent you over the edge with his behaviour he may well think twice about reacting so violently in the future .

Great piece about living (& fighting!) with teenagers in the Guardian Family section today - it might help a bit (even though your DS is nowehere near 18 yet!)

At 13 I think it's up to him if he brushes his teeth or not. You can suggest it might be a good idea, but after that surely it's up to him. Blackmailing him with his busfare doesn't sound right to me. Will make him feel powerless and build up further resentment. The 'pick your battles' thing comes to mind.
As you say the day is approaching when you won't be able to order him about. You've said he is a lovely boy a lot of the time. Can't you work with him instead of dictating? Have you asked him seriously what his problem is with schoolwork? Perhaps he's overwhelmed with it all. He's got school onto him and home onto him. He could be very frustrated because he doesn't know how to handle things. Talk to him and accept he has a right to make decisions about his life and they might not agree with your ideas. You're the one with experience, see if you can put together a persuasive argument about why it would be better for him to work at school and ask about any difficulties he might be having with that.

i'm so so sorry to tell you this, but he sounds just like me, and 13 years later I still don't give jack shit about my education. I hated it then, I would hate it now, and although I passed all my GCSE's, the very second I couldn't be carted back to school, I left. And I never went again. And even now I don't regret it. If he doesn't want to do the work at school, you can't make him I'm afraid.

How about getting him involved with something vocational, such as St John's ambulance?

I agree with the last two postings - back off and let him know its up to him. you ask him to do things because you care, tell him that, but ultimately it's his choice and he has to learn to live with the consequences of not working or brushing his teeth. on the other hand, violence is violence. if he hits you or your dh then call the appropriate authority. it's assault. if he breaks the iron then he has to replace it. he obviously has interests and wants to share them and that is truly positive. work on that.

I can symapthise with this thread, my ds1 is 14.5 and has no interest in doing school work at all.All his teachers say he is intelligient but bone idle, he kids himself that he is doing really well at all classes, and that the teachers are lying when they say he isnt working, doing homework etc. He wont study, says school work doesnt interest him, at the moment he is grounded, and has been for tw weeks, he has had his mobile phone and gameboy taken away from him, he has been told that until I see some improvement in his attitude to school work and his tutor tells me he is putting effort in, and picing up his marks, thing will stay as they are. We too have tried the reward system, punishment systm, we are all out of ideas and the school dont seem to have many more left to try , sorry if I have crashed this thread, but i do really sympathise with the op'er

noidea - I have an 18 year old ds1, ds2 is 15 and dd 13 (think I'm also menopausal so you can imagine the fun....not). He's quite young to be in full teenage rebel mode but I'm sort of with the last couple of posters and would go along the lines of 'well it's up to you' with regard to teeth cleaning etc. He's pushing his boundaries just like they do when they're toddlers. Some stuff is important and some stuff isn't - try not to make everything a battle.

Don't react to violence - walk away, with gritted teeth if you have to, it takes the wind out of their sails.

Yes you will come to a point when you ground him and he goes out anyway - hopefully not for a couple of years yet. You can't stop him but you can make it clear that in return he can't make you cook, clean etc for him so he makes his choice and he pays the price. Rights go with responsibilities.

What does he say about the school stuff? Is he bored/struggling/lost interest?

More agreement from me - he wants rights, he gets responsibilities. At his age he will need help seeing the possble consequences of his actions - 'if you throw that iron I will stop your allowance which means no phone credit' (or whatever) as teens genuinely find it hard to think beyond the next few minutes (it must be like those early days with a newborn).

The violence issue is very serious, good advice from other posters, you must nip this in teh bud. It is an advanced form of 'I can do what I want, you can't stop me' and he needs to learn that certainly there are things you can't stop him doing but violence is well over hhe acceptable boundary for adults as well as children. Find one crucial consequence (internet time, whatever) and enforce it for this. Stepfather especially must not resort to physical strength or violence as it sends the wrong message.

Sympathy for the schoolwork issue - I have a lazy bright 16 ds and know of no incentive or punishment that can make an unmotivated kid work hardat school, but we did manage to upgrade from Disaster to Acceptable and now things are much better.

Here are some of the things we did -

1. Chill Out. Although this seems heresy, academic achievement is NOT everything - especially at 13. Richard Branson's got about one O level; I was a lazy minimilist at school but now run a successful consultancy and frankly am coining it. It doesn't all end with school, whatever teachers and the papers say. If he's bright he will be OK in the long term.

2. What's the issue? it may be that he finds it all boring and pointless (mine did, and it's a hard one to argue in some cases) in which case aim for an acceptable minimum. Mine is now doing 4 a levels, 2 in the only subject he really liked (maths) and 2 in things not available until A level - dropping all the 'boring cr**' made all the difference and his As will be better than his GCSEs - and this is a boy who was not expected to stay for As. Or he could be struggling, or hate his classmates. Or he could just not know. But step back and give him space to tell you without fear of reprisals and condemnation.

3. Spell out the consequences to him of really slacking - if he completely flunks he will not be able to get a job/go to college to study x/stay in the same class as his mates. Look through his telescope - what are the consequences that matter to him?

4. do not expect instant results, happy compliance, or for him to say 'mum I am so sorry, you were right and I was wrong, I'm just going upstairs to tidy my room and read War and Peace'. He is a teenager. He has to have the last word and it is probably a grunt and a slammed door. (You can finish conversations by saying 'this conversation is over' and turning your back)

Good luck

Havnt read all this thread but my dd of 16 yrs is now so vervbally abusive and rude and disagreable that i have applied to BRATCAMP. I am a single mother with a 6 yr old ds and 18 yr old ds who is at Uni. He was never like her. I love them all the same but am at the end of my tether with her. She gets drunk, smokes, is dosobedient, angry and just plain fowl. No punishment is enough. Its hard with no father to back you up !

Someone suggested this book to me once and I keep it by my bed for back up.

The Manipulative Child by Ernest W. Swihart Jr,MD. & Patrick Cotter, PhD.

Its not just for parents with a problem, but for everyone.

? How to resist the urge to 'fix' things for your kids
? how to regain control and becme "manipulative-proof'
? how to promote your childs independance and enjoy being a parent

Advice for 0-6, Scool age, adolescent and young adults

Hope it gets better