on bus or tube in London alone

[Nicola63]

Hi
I would be grateful for some advice here. My 13 year old stepdaughter from South Africa is coming to live with us in December. I don't have any children and my knowledge of what 13 year olds usually do is limited to my memory of me at that age. I do know that she is a very polite, nicely-brought-up, well-behaved and responsible girl.

My DH and I have been talking about practical rules for her etc, and the subject of money came up. This ended in an argument because I mentioned she might need enough pocket money to be able to buy bus or tube tickets etc. DH's opinion is she would not need money for that and there is no way will she ever be on a bus or tube alone without an adult until she is 18 and has finished her A-levels. I am not sure whether this is reasonable or not. It doesn't sound it to me, and that's what caused a disagreement. Of course I have seen other young people on the bus and tube without adults, but DH's comment is that well, their parents may not care but we do, and if she goes anywhere she will either go with us in the car or with us on public transport or not at all. He is worried both about safety and about her getting into bad behaviour (drinking, hanging out with boys etc).

What do other people think?

Ooooh think you might have your work cut out for you keeping her by your side to 18!

I have a dd(14) and live on the outskirts of London. Most teenagers around here start using public transport to get to secondary school.

Not saying i like her going off with her friends at the weekend. Yesterday bowling, today picutres but i think i would be storing up a lot of trouble and resentment by not letting her out.

Of course she may be a 'young' 13 yr old and will not be used to living over here but i cannot see many 17yr olds being happy being ferried around by parents.

Wishing you luck anyway.

Goodness, my DS1 goes to a really nice school in central London, and I often see other kids (who are maybe 11?) getting on buses on their own to go home.

How long has it been since your DH was living with his DD? Do you know what sorts of rules she has in South Africa? I feel sorry for her, coming all that way and being faced with such strange rules ...

(Should have said, my DS1 is 5, so he's not going on buses etc on his own for a little while ...)

She has not lived with her father for the last 5 years. Things in SA are very different, it would be unthinkable for her mother to allow her to travel on any kind of public transport where they live, it would be far too dangerous. (This is a place where people live in gated communities with armed guards. They don't quite live like that, but there is no safe public transport available where they are).

I suppose I am going to have to play it by ear, I don't want this to end up in an argument, maybe DH will mellow in time! I agree that it is appropriate to look after her a lot right now, this is a (yes, rather "young") little girl from a rural community coming to live in London, in a totally different life. She's never used any form of public transport. Of course I am not going to just bung her on a bus and tell her to get on with it! But till 18...I don't know!

I had heard things were like that in SA, but didn't want to assume it was like that for everyone, everywhere there.

Obviously you'll want to supervise her closely at first. But when she makes friends at school, and wants to go to the cinema on her own with them, are you meant to tag along behind?

Is one of you not working, so you'll be able to accompany her to and from school?

He doesn't mean she can't go out with friends etc, just that he will be there waiting outside to fetch them when the film finishes etc!! (Or me, I suppose, since he may well be working on weekends, his job is more irregular hours than mine, I'll be the one waiting outside!).

One of us is going to have to take her to and pick her up from school at the moment (it is also a boarding school so if you can't be there in time to pick them up the school will keep them till you get there). The school is in fact within walking distance from home (in a nice suburb), but I sense that is a WHOLE other topic and we have not discussed that yet. I must say, even I wouldn't let her walk around the street on her own at first!

Hi Nicola63, Although you can discuss rules and boundaries in advance, I suggest you need to stay flexible until your SD arrives and when she does, then you can find out what she's capable of and expecting, and also how she responds to what seems to be a fairly big change - for you all! You'll also need to stay flexible through time - what's appropriate at 13 will not be appropriate at 15, 17, 18 etc.

On the specifics of never travelling by bus/tube without an adult until 18 - I agree with you that this is an unreasonable expectation. It's also completely unrealistic!

Sure, it totally makes sense to accompany her everywhere at first, she won't know her way around, and she'll be totally disoriented. And of course, if she's not used to going anywhere on her own, ever, it will take her a little while to develop street sense.

I just suspect it won't take five years!

And from what I remember, teenagers like to be able to go off to the mall and wander around, go for food, go to a movie, whatever. They don't necessarily just want to go do a specific single thing ...

I would like to be flexible, but DH is getting all dogmatic about rules as the time comes for her to arrive. Perhaps he is anxious (I am too, while excited!).

It is going to be important to get it right as her sister (18 months younger) is coming to live with us as well next year, so we will have two teenage girls to cope with!

WHAT have I let myself in for??

PS on the rules topic, is it OK to insist they do certain chores around the house etc, if they are to get their pocket money?

I'm sure dh will develop flexibility as you go along - it's an essential survival skill! On the pocket money front, I'd say it depends on what you plan buying for her, and what you want her to be responsible for herself, and whether she'll be getting pockey money/an allowance from anyone else. Making a proportion of her pocket money dependent on helping out might be reasonable though I'd encourage her to help out and participate in doing things around the house, regardless.

It reads like one of the main reasons for your sdd's coming to live with you is to do with their education, so I assume this is something you've all talked about and agreed to. Are you/dh able to talk through any of these practicalities with the mother, particularly about what expectations are already being set up?

Thanks. Yes, it is because of their education that the girls are coming here, primarily. Well, that is the reason why their mother has agreed to it anyway. And we are delighted about it. The biggest regret of DH's life is not seeing much of his children (previously because his job means he is rarely in the same country as them for more than a few weks of the year, and more recently because he moved to the UK to be with me).

I do think it is a good idea that I have a chat with her mother and that is very much possible. I am going down to SA in December to fetch the girls, and will be there for several days, so I will set aside some time to talk about this. I know that they have to do chores etc there, and whenever I have spent time with them they have happily and speedily hopped to it when their father has told them to tidy up, wash up, and that kind of thing, so hopefully there should not be too many problems.

Once she's here you'll ba able to make a better judgment of how streetwise she is, how quickly she picks up a sense of direction etc.
I'm sure your dh will adapt !
My eldest ds is 13 years 4 months. We're in N London and he's just started a new school in central London. He has an oyster card and manages the tube fine; we started off by going with him, (during holidays), then staying with him for the start of one journey but not directing him at all until we were sure he'd find the correct platform etc. Of course he did, so he went off on said journey, followed by me 2 trains behind ! If anything, dh is more protective of him than I am ! This afternoon he is meeting me at a prearranged destination away from home, and I've no doubt he'll cope, as usual.

BTW his 14 yo female cousin goes all over London with her friends; she was very protected until about a year ago, and has been fine too.

I would drop the argument, and perhaps drop all making of rules until you get to know her and she has settled in...of course she will be able to travel on public transort, well before she is 18..but will do it as she gains confidence, and with her freinds. However you imagine it will be in advance, it will be different when it happens - so encouraging DH to respond the things as they are when she gets here migt be more relaxing for all of you!

Hope it all gose well - how exciting!

Yes Majorca you're right; some of ds1's friends changed school at 11, and all went by public transport from some time in y7.
One stage at a time and your dh will come round, Nicola 63.

My tip would be to deffo get her a child's OYSTER CARD then she won't have to be using money at tube stations or buses

So she can get it topped up automatically or once a month etc.

Good luck with it

Well thanks for all the advice. I think you are right that we will have to see how things go after she gets here, it will all be a culture shock for her etc. The green space thing will be no problem as we live on Hampstead Heath, but there will be a lot of other things to get used to (she comes from a rural area outside of Joburg). She's visited London once, earlier this year, just for a week.

The discussion in fact started by my mentioning an Oyster card to DH and he said there is no way he would allow her to have one (very adamant), so I think that is a discussion for another time! She won't be using public transport to go to school (it's too close for that, the school is closer than the tube station!), and I am afraid I drive when I go anywhere, so the subject may not come up much until she starts making friends etc and wants to go somewhere with them. I can see this may be a difficult point, but we will have to wait and see.

DH has a LOT of fixed ideas about how things are going to be when she is here, but I get the feling some of them are going to have to change a bit as we go along!

PS I don't actually live ON Hampstead Heath (in a bush?) but next to it, I mean!!