Was I being a bit cruel or teaching a valuable lesson re homework?

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

I've always left both my boys to be responsible for their own homework since they were able to read and understand it themselves. Always available and willing to help/support if required. When each boy started High School for the first couple of weeks i went over using the planner and that doing it as soon as you get it is the best policy and then it's done and dusted. DS1 (14) got it straight away - I will say every day or two - do you have any homework? and he usually says he's done it or is doing it after dinner etc. DS2 (13) got same initial support and same reminders - worked out quite early on that he wasn't using the planner (he apparently keeps it all in his head). He is not as organised as DS1, room goes from tidy to messy in 3 seconds, leaves uniform on the floor despite being repeatedly asked to hang it up etc - however he is generally a good kid and reports from school are reasonably good - all teachers say he is capable of more than he delivers, none had any issues with homework.

Anyway, when they broke up for Easter I asked if anyone had jomework, DS1 said he had a little bit of Maths, did it when he got home on the last day as it was a half day and that was him. DS2 said he has an essay to do but he had weeks to do it. I recommended that he do it straight away. Anyway despite me metioning making sure any homework was done a few times during the holidays, on the day before they were due back, DS2 suddenly remembers he has some to do - he takes something out his bag and comes and puts it back in about 20 minutes later.

Queue tonight at 8pm, I call both boys for their Life guard class, DS2 comes and says can he not go as he is in the middle of an essay that he needs to hand in tomorrow. He didn't get it today and despite him saying he cant remember when it was issued, I suspect it is the one he got given before the holidays. He'd written one paragraph, by this point, he's been home 4 hours so could have completed something tonight if he hadn't spent evening on laptop.

I made him go to swim class and to bed when he got home, said he could set his alarm and get up early if he wanted. He thinks I'm unreasonable.

I went up to his room (which is a tip) while he was at swimming and he'd left his laptop on sitting on his duvet which he has been warned not to do, and various bits of homework sheet scattered on the bed. I've taken the laptop and his PSvita and said he can't get them back until he's done his homework up to date.

I now feel bad about it but it is his fault and I think he needs to take the consequences or was I cruel?

Does he need the lap top to do the homework? I would have ensured the homework was done and then thought about hoe to deal with his messing about over it afterwards.

Not sure if he needs computer access but he can use the main pc for that since it doesn't have all his games on it. Would you have let him miss the class or stay up late? Anyway, he didn't ask anyone to wake him early and didn't set an alarm himself. He is still being a moody smartarse this morning. I don't like that he may get into trouble, but I think he needs to. :(

I would probably have made him miss the class and stay home to do the essay when it was fresh in his mind

I think you did the right thing.

I had to let my daughter have a difficult time once or twice a couple of years ago in order to teach her to properly take responsibility for her learning and homework. It worked and she is on top of things now and on track to do really well in her GCSEs, all under her own steam.

You did the right thing

He'd have quite happily have missed the class and that would have been another slippery slope. Gahhhhhh, toddlers were easier.

I think you may need to adjust your approach to ds2. He sounds like a different child to your ds1 and slightly different parenting may be needed.

In our house we have a set time for homework/music/learning which is every day regardless. If they don't have set homework they do other approved tasks. We need the structure as they are too prone to distraction or procrastination otherwise. Ds1 was always keen to do the minimum he could get away with before going back to his game walkthroughs!

I think in his head he'll have missed the homework deadline because you made him swim. Not because he's disorganised.

I think at 13, you sound over involved in his homework. He knows he has to do it and knows the deadlines, if it doesn't get done there will be sanctions at school.

Also not sure what his messy room etc has to do with anything? I'm incredibly messy and it never hindered my academic success.

TBH it sounds as if you're comparing him to his older brother and he's never quite going to live up to him

I don't think what you did was wrong and was certainly not unreasonable but I would have let him do the homework and miss the lifeguard class but I would have said that if it happened again I would stop paying for the lifeguard classes and would have stuck to it. I assume the lifeguard class is something he wants to do?

I was always someone who did my homework at the last minute so I kind of understand. I do my best work when I have a deadline. However he does need to decide if being that disorganised is worth missing out on "out of school stuff" that he does, For me though getting the homework done however last minute would take priority over practically anything else really, except perhaps a family event that had been planned where other people might be disappointed if he didn't go.

You may need to decide with him whether the battle to be "organised" is worth it. As long as he does the work, when he does it should be up for a bit of leeway. Otherwise you run the risk of him not doing it at all.

My DD whose in year 9 doesn't use her planner and says everything is in her head. Her homework does get done though, as her school issue detention for homework not handed in - no excuses allowed.

Even if the essay was only issued this week, he'll have known he had the class (which I guess you've paid for) and should have worked around it. If he'd been working all evening on it and still wanted to add more, that would have been a different thing.

I'm sure he'll be in trouble today for not handing it in, but he'll still have to finish it. If this is the case, I think I'd tell him I'd thought about it more and realize having the laptop will help with his homework, so he can have the laptop downstairs for homework only, but point out if you catch him doing anything else it will be taken off him for a certain amount of time and he will have to use school computers at lunchtime or go the library to use theirs.

I do feel sorry for him still but I always sway between am I mollycoddling him too much or not enough

I don't think it's fair to say that I am comparing him unfairly against his brother. I have essentially treated them the same and he has always had the control over when to do the work - I think he has often chosen to do it at the last minute but got it in on time. This time that didn't work out as he didn't remember in time and had other commitments (that yes, I've paid for). It's actually out of concern for him that I've done this, tbh I was always like him too and at times it made me really unhappy, i didn't do as well as I should have done at school and probably came close to disciplinary action in my first couple of jobs as I wasn't getting my job done.

I want to save him that - I think a frank honest talk is what is required when I am less dissapointed and angry and he is less frustrated and blaming me for a situation he got himself into.

Given his previous record, I am not convinced he will get into trouble and I can't work out whether I would be pleased or disappointed with that.

The reason for taking the laptop is two fold, one he is getting obsessive about being on it all the time and two, he has been repeatedly told that it is a fire risk leaving it on on his bed. He is not getting the message. I am happy for him to have the laptop returned everyday when he has shown that he has completed his homework and once he gets in a proper routine he can have it back full time as he needs to learn to self manage.

At the end of the day, i love him and want the best for him but he isn't perfoming as well as he should at school either and its his future that it affects, not mine - he is bright, funny, argumentative and stubborn, that's not going to change :) but I can just see him getting himself in a needless mess and then stressing about things being late when 15 mins spent after dinner each night would mean he could relax and enjoy his free time without it hanging over him.

DS1 is borderline Aspergers and is overly compliant, so it's no surprise that he just does what he has been shown and asked to do. I think DS2 does compare himself to him sometimes and finds himself lacking but it's something we've tried our best never to do. personally I think he is brighter and has a really positive future and has loads of atributes that I wish DS1 had too.

You absolutely did the right thing. Absolutely.

He had a commitment to go to the class, so I don't think you should have cancelled it. He had plenty of time to do his essay. I really think that you are doing him a huge favour teaching him now that it's better to get things done with time to spare.

I am a mature student at uni and it makes me weep/laugh how many of the students have to ask for extensions on their essays. It really pisses the professors off too. It's obvious who are the kids who se parents were 'snow plough parents' - sweeping all obstacles out of the child's way so they end up incapable of fulfilling deadlines etc.

Well done. Stick to your guns.

BTW - my DM used to make excuses and 'mollycoddle' my DB (who was a lazy, but bright, arse at school) about homework etc.

He had no work ethic at all - he ended up with a 3rd at uni. He suddenly discovered a work ethic once he left home properly and realised that mum wasn't there to smooth his path. He went and too evening classes and is now a success. But I wish my mum had let him fail earlier so he realised that panicky feeling is not one he wanted to replicate.

The issue with the Lifeguard class was that he came at 8pm when we were about to leave so we really had no opportunity to have a rational discussion. He has an issue at the moment where he will not go swimming at all, I think he is overly body sensitive. He does no other exercise other than school PE. He really wants to complete all the levels though and also wants to use it for his DofE when he is old enough. He does Scouts and enjoys that. I think he has things in his head that he'd like to do but struggles to make any effort to make those things happen.

Tbf from the bit I read of the essay he was doing a reasonable job.

Some kids take a lot longer than others to learn to think ahead, and some don't care at all about getting in mild trouble at school. Some kids can talk their way out of anything and charm even very strict teachers.

In order to get homework done, kids have to be genuinely interested, feel that the homework will actually benefit them in some way, care about pleasing a concerned adult, or be well enough brainwashed to not question why they do the work.

Which one of these things could apply to your DS2?

And I think you did the right thing taking him swimming, especially after reading your last post.

He never normally moans about going to the Life Saving as he does it in clothes not swimming costume but it was the first week back after term so didn't want to set a bad precedent.

Can I offer again my "rolling homework list" suggestion?

When my dd started secondary school, we started a list which went on the family notice board- everyday she added and crossed off homework as she got/did it. Obviously this was intended as a temporary measure, but she also had a "freelance" job she did - and the homework list meant that if she was't there I could be pretty sure if someone rang whether she could work or not. So we just kept it on. Ds was very keen to do it because it was what you did when you went to big school -and it still going strong 14 years later. (Dd put the work she intended to do at home from university at Easter- only half jokingly!). It means everyone knows what they have to do- I can remind if I feel inclined, but no one can ever "suddenly remember" homework because it's there for all to see. If possible, it's good for them to put a rough guess of how long it's going to take too.

Thanks Hakluyt - i think I will present that as an option with him tonight when we sit down for a discussion.

I think you did the right thing both regarding the lifeguard class and the laptop. DS needs to understand he is dealing with immoveable objects here -- what is on the schedule is not going to be set aside to accommodate his procrastination and entertainment and you are serious about your message. So well done.

Trice mentioned having a set time for homework and other stuff that needs to be done and I think this and Hakluyt's idea are great. Your DS2 needs a time that is specifically dedicated to homework and not a broad swathe of hours when he in his own mind thinks he can do anything and fit in the homework whenever, if he remembers it.

I like what bumblingbee said.

You're very hands on in my mind, btw, not criticising, just observing that's not a hands off approach at all.

Thank you all for your advice, views and support.

Bit of an update, when we got in from school I asked him to come for a chat. I asked him how school went and got the stock "okay" answer. I asked how the homework went and he told me he had handed it in. It wasn't due til the afternoon so he used break, lunch and some time in another class to finish it off. he was however contrite and said he knows it was his fault and wasn't mine.

I said to him that despite what he might think, I hadn't done what I did to be nasty to him or out of badness and that I loved him and wanted to help him. i told him that I see a lot of myself in him and how I had been the same and how unhappy and stressful it had made my life until I sorted myself out and that i wanted better for him. I told him that sometimes the kindest thing to do is to allow people to fail as it teaches them a valuable lesson. We talked about getting into a routine and he seemed positive about it (not sure that will last in reality) I said he could have his laptop back once he'd completed all his homework and tidied his room - he did and he got it back. He tells me he is going to do 20 minutes of school work every day after dinner - we'll see....

Based on your OP you sound slightly too 'hands on' for my liking, a touch overbearing perhaps?

I'm not sure I would have forced him to go swimming but if you have paid good money for the class in advance then I can see your point?

I think natural consequences are he doesn't hand in on time and the school punish him. I don't think additional punishment of removing laptops and so on is required. Although you try to justify it with the duvet thing it sounds to me like the main reason you took the laptop is that you are annoyed he didn't do the homework.....

Obviously you are not 'cruel'. I just wonder if a slightly more backseat approach may be the way to go with DS2... obviously a different personality from DS1 .

forever, I'm not sure where I am too hands on or overbearing but yu are entitled to your view. Ii didn't "force" him to go, I said he wasn't not going just because he hadn't finished his homework. He stropped a bit, grabbed his stuff and got in the car. The duvet/laptop thing was a separate issue (apart from the fact that despite him apparently doing his homework, it was logged into a game). There are numerous reports in the media of fires being caused by leaving laptops on duvets, the softness of the duvet covers over the vents and they overheat - he knows he shouldn't do it, at the very least it will knacker his laptop.

I've taken a backseat approach with the homework - i don't think that occasionally asking if he has any and saying it would be a good idea to do any at the beginning of the holidays rather than leaving it is controlling it for him.