My neice has been stealing again. My sister is desperate. I don't know what to say

[clumsymum]

I have a neice who is 17. She has had a troubled past (my sister adopted her aged 5 from a VERY disturbed background), and from the start of her teenage years she has had some behavioural problems, some academic difficulties (which may be linked to foetal alcohol syndrome), but mainly the problem of stealing and lying.

In the past couple of years she has stolen money from a charity collecting tin at a friend's house, stolen from both her grandmothers (delving in unattended handbags), Got kicked out of 6th form for stealing money from another pupil, stole my sister's switch card and drew cash on it (out of desparation my sister pressed charges, and neice received a police caution for that). She's had councelling, been on the young offenders rehab course, special sessions at her new college (which my sister had to beg to get her into).

She's been working saturdays at the local supermarket (not on the tills, my sister had made this clear to the manager), for about a year and a half.
Today my sister went shopping there with my niece. They were asked to leave the store. Apparently my niece was caught stealing condoms on Saturday (on the cctv). She was sacked on that day, and told she was banned from the store, she didn't tell her mum or dad.

Tonight my sister is beside herself. She just doesn't know where to go from here. They feel they've tried every avenue. Apart from anything else, my neice will now have no money. What do you do when she wants to go out etc.

Just wondered if anyone else had any experience of this, what can I say to my sis and Bil?

i don't have any real advice but had to comment on this:

Apart from anything else, my neice will now have no money. What do you do when she wants to go out etc.

she can't go out!!! she is 17 and she is more than old enough to know that what she is doing is wrong and that it'll have repurcussions. if she wants to have priviledges and be treated as an adult then she needs to learn to act like one.

Don't know what to say but am so for your niece and sister. My cousin used to steal as a result of her unhappiness but she was never offered any help. Your niece is obviously very troubled but she has been helped and nothing has worked so far. I think getting to the root of her sadness is the key but don't ask me how you do it - a different counsellor maybe? If she has learning difficulties could she have been bullied? This lay at the heart of my cousin's problem.

i think at 17 she needs to accept that there are consequences to her actions ,she has no money ,her fault ,full stop . I appreciate that she has had a rough early childhood but it does sound as though she has had a loving and supportive family environment for the last 12 years . If i were you i would let your sister know that she has done nothing wrong and that she has done her best but that even children from loving birth homes go off the rails during this time and turn into satans little helpers . As for your neice ,make life uncomfortable ,if she goes out hide her favorite top ,pair all her socks oddly , put all her cds in the wrong cases , swap all her pants for gigantic old lady pants , sew up the bottem of her jeans ,set her alarm clock an hour early , delelte all the numbers off her mobile ,oh i could go on for ever like this but you get the picture ,tell your sister that yes its probably childish but it will make her feel better and put a smile on her face and not actually do any real damage to your neice except annoy and inconvieniance her ,which is nothing to what she has done to your sister

you can say that alot of other families go through this and it is not their fault

agree with alot of other posters

your niece should be made accountable for her actions
and if she has no money to go out or spend on whatever

well it is just tough
your niece should be out getting a job if she is not in education and paying her way

i think your sis and bil should lay down some ground rules and
one of them is to start her paying a nominal sum for her keep
instead of sitting of her backside all day

I would also look a going to the docs for some counselling or similar
as she is a kleptomaniac imo
good luck
xxx

I know someone who got into similar trouble (and she didn't have a troubled past as an excuse). Her family were devastated, police involved, lost her job, etc., etc. She did avoid prosecution but I think got a big scare and as far as I know has not re-offended. She is still not great with money though and has got herself into debt (which her family had to help her with again...) She does seem to have sorted herself out now, being older and a mother herself now has probable helped....

I think your sister should come down hard on your neice and not let her troubled early years be used as an excuse - that sort of behaviour is not acceptable from anyone regardless. I think not giving her money is a tricky one - if they don't give her any she may be tempted to steal again - can they help her find another job where there is less scope for her to go astray? (I would suggest something where she has to do some hard physical work if it was me!)

Clumsymum I an sorry for you and your sisters family but her dd is 17 and needs to understand that there are consequences for stealing. My dd is not 17 but a little younger i have reported her to the police every time she has stolen things she also has problems but that doesnt excuse the stealing. Maybe she needs more counciling or maybe stealing is just an easy way to get what she wants i dont no.I do think that she shouldnt be aloud to get away with it and as hard as it is for a family to report there own child sometimes there is no choice.

Thanks everyone.

This is soo hard. As I said last night, my neice had a police caution when she took my sister's switch card. It didn't seem to have any impact on her at the time (my mum was at the police station with her as the 'responsible adult', because neither of her parents felt they could do it without blowing up), and obviously hasn't since, as she has done this. I'm surprised that the supermarket haven't reported this to the police, but it seems they haven't.

As someone has said, the problem with her having no job / no money is that she is likely to steal again. It isn't possible to keep a 17 year old in, is it? My sis stopped giving her lifts a few months ago (they live in a rural area). She just went missing one evening walked back home on her own at 2 a.m.

My sister and bil have confiscated 3 mobile phones from her over the years, because she used to steal to buy top-up cards for the phone. As soon as she got paid each month, she would just go and buy another phone, and the cycle started again.

My sister was having neices wages paid into her own account, then letting neice have a set amount each week (partly because she was supposed to be paying back what she took on the switch card), otherwise she would spend all her wages on the first day.

Now sis and bil will have to start locking their money up again, as neice thinks nothing of filching from handbag or wallet if it's left in the house. This isn't a good way for a family to live.

Believe me, this girl has been to several councellors over the last 3 or 4 years. No-one can get to the bottom of her, she has no regard for herself, and no regard for anyone else's feelings. She adores my mum (her Gran), but has taken £30 from her handbag before now, and jewellery from her jewellery box, which was discovered before neice had actually left the house, fortunately.

She has had love and care, and she has had discipline. There has been a time when she reported bil to the police for assault, because he told her off and locked her in her room for stealing from his mum. As bil works in a charity for young people with learning disabilities, he is terrified that she may have him charged for abuse some time, which would lose him his job.

My sister is now convinced that her daughter will end up in custody. Also that she'll end up pg, as she just doesn't ever think thru the consequences of her actions.

Sorry just sounding off, before I ring sis to try to express some form of sympathy.

really feel for you and all concerned. given that she adores your mum so much have they sat down face to face with your neice having to listen to how it makes them actually feel and how she has lost that trust and now has to win it back? i'm sure this has been done, but may be worth a try. agree you can't keep a 17 year old in but you can try and enforce some kind of trade off - you can have a lift and £10 in exchange for x y z tasks. she sounds quite immature in her lack of empathy so may be worth a shot....?

Thanks Bigfatred,

Yes you are right, she is very immature, this is one of the major problems. Although she is physically 17, emotionally she's more like a 12 year old. This is especially concerning as she is very pretty with a super figure, and given to flirting, esp with older boys. My sis knows she doesn't have the maturity to deal with what might happen. They have talked before about the danger of chatting to blokes in the pub, going with them in their car etc. but she just doesn't think it could happen to her (I think it's more likely with her than most, as her level of empathy means she doesn't know what a bloke may be leading up to).

In the past my mum and neice have sat down together to discuss whats going on (both with and without my sis). She talks, says she can't say why she does it (altho once came up with some ridiculous theory that one of the councellors put into her head "I steal so I can buy phone top-ups so I can ring people up becos I want to make them happy" hmm at the expense of hurting her closest family ???).
She says she knows she can't carry on like this, promises it will stop, spends about 10 mins being contrite, then back to square one.

She seems to hate my sister, can't talk to her civilly at all, doesn't know why. I know this happens with teenage girls anyway, but how can they find their way back?

Oh, where will it end? My bil now honestly believes that the adoption was the worst thing they have ever done. Over the last couple of months he has deeply regretted it.

for everyone.

If it helps, my cousin did turn her life around despite some terrible things happening to her. She's now happliy married with a great dh, two lovely dcs and works as a TA specialising in behaviour problems. She jus grew up and stopped it, put her past behind her and made a new life.

nearlythree,

Thankyou.

It does help me to know what you have said. I will pass this on to my sis when I can (without saying "I've told a bunch of total strangers what problems you have ....").

Apparently neice was planning to go to her boyf house tonight for a bonfire party. Sis has vetoed it, but I don't know whether that will work, seeing as she was planning to go straight from college.

Looks like they'll have to start picking her up from colege, just to make sure she comes home.

clumsymum - the thing that jumped out at me from your first post was the mention of possible Foetal Alcohol Syndrome. I'm no expert but I do know that impulsive behaviour, disregard for the feelings of others, outbursts of anger and emotional immaturity are classic symptoms.

Is it possible for your BIL and Dsis to speak to an expert in behavioural issues associated with FAS? They may have some particular pointers for dealing with her behaviour.

Sorry I have no other, more helpful advice. What a difficult situation

FASAware Website

Does any of this sound familiar?

i don't see why they should pick her up.- there should be a cerfew in place and if she isn't in - she gets locked out.

i always tell my 3 teenagers you can go out whenever you want - its getting back in thats the problem.

my son was 15 when he found out that sleeping in the shed and having school the next day was not compatible.

if she wants money - ssay £10 per week. tell her mum to draw up a rota of chores to be done on coming home from college.

alternatively - get the girl helping out in a charity shop or some other voluntary capacity - at a homeless shelter - or giving out food to homeless people

this shows her that getting sacked only means she still has to work - only now she doesn't get paid for it

there are lots of charities and voluntary things around - so she can get sacked from lots before she runs out.

if she doesnt like this option - SHE will then have to find herself a job.#

i think this girl has too many safety nets.

you dont poke your finger in the fire if you know its going to burn.

however you keep poking if mummy and daddy keep running to stop you - becuase that way you get attention.

Re BIL and charity job.

my husband was in same situation - and quite frankly its a show no fear mentality against teenagers. if they spot a weekness they will exploit it.

so let her report him to SOcial services - then what?

she needs reminding that family life will continue - the only difference being - she will be removed - no one removes the grown ups!

i think they forget that. i have said the same thing to my daughter.

they get lots ofinfomration at school now about being abused and phoning secret numbers and contacting organisations confidentially - and parents should not do x y z

they think that they have discovered the pot at the end of the rainbow

finally - they think they are grown up - and they have THE LEVER OF POWEEERRRRRRRRRRR. yes indeedy power over parents - cooooool. sometimes you just have to say - "look if you think its better living somewhere else - fuck off then.

hope this helps

don't feel too despairing - we all hear so many stories of people changing their ways for various reasons and there is no pattern. (dp's neice was horrific and family went through the whole tough love thing, (but then they live in canada ), and she just eventually grew out of it). at the risk of sounding trite, but given her immaturity, you will all have to find a way to emphasise the positive stuff about her because some of it may be attention seeking and any attention even negative is good (warped i know). but she is capable of being loving and she is going to college, and she has held down a job. maybe she needs to be treated more like that emotional twelve year old and earn being treated like an adult. good luck.

Glad it helped a bit, clumsymum.

Been thinking about the fact your niece had a job in a supermarket. Do you know, my cousin had exactly the same job, and she got sacked for walking off shift to go to see her boyf. When she turned herself around she got a job as a care assistant in a home for the elderly. I'm not sure what came first, her growing up or her getting this job, but she blossomed. She has a very nurturing side that had been totally hidden and the people she cared for really took to her. I don't know, maybe she felt she was making a difference to their lives. Whatever, that is when she suddenly became really responsible.

Re the party, I think your sis should pick her fights. Is the boyf okay or dodgy? Would it cost her any money? I wouldn't allow her to do anything she can't afford as she isn't earning, but if the party is free with an okay crowd then I would let her do it - best to encourage any suitable friendships IME. If the boyf is dodgy then it gets a lot trickier, my cousin had a terribly abusive boyfriend for yrs and the more her dad tried to stop her seeing him the more she went for him, even though he beat her up.