DS1 nearly 17 and lies all the time

[Faithope]

I have just about had enough!

DS1 is in a full time apprenticeship and earns a good wage (£10,299 a year). So he isn't short of money. Hasn't handled the money thing too well so now I split his wages into 4 envelopes and every Saturday he get's an envelope to last him the week, just until he can work out his weekly spending and to make it last. I suggested it, he said it was fine as he was spending his money too quickly.
Anyway a few sundays ago, we left him in the house while we took his brother to a 1st birthday party (DS2 is also 1). Came home and DH said that £4 was missing from his bag. We went through 'could you have spent it etc' so confronted DS1. He denied it but I can tell he is lying.
He also lies about where he is-he has recently been diagnosed with Epilepsy and is on new medication. All I ask is he says 'mum, I am going to a mates after work, I should be home by ..pm' or 'im not going to be home for dinner, I will see you at..pm' He used to do it, now he doesn't bother.

I caught him out lying last night, telling me he was working late and that he would be home in half an hour. It was an hour and a half later that I rang him to ask how far away he was as I was dishing up dinner. I am by ... which is 5 minutes from the house. He turns up 25 minutes later. I said outright 'I am fed up with being lied to, I expect respect as I respect you' He then said 'is it no wonder I lie when you keep tabs on me all the time'

I don't see it as keeping tabs-I see it as being a caring parent who want's to know where in the world her son is just by letting me know via text. Is it too much to ask? Do I back right off and leave him to continue to do what he is doing? Is this normal teen behaviour?.

I am due to have his brother or sister in the next few weeks and him lying is stressing me out.

My instinct would be back right off .

Let him work his own money out, if he runs out too soon then tough luck. He is old enough to be working full time and also old enough to go out without your permission to keep tabs on him really. If he isn't home in time for dinner then stick it in the microwave and let him reheat it later, or just bin it and let him sort his own food out.

There can't be much tax or NI to pay on that wage, So he must be bringing home £800 a month?

He clearly wants to be treated more like an adult so I would ask him to pay £200 a month for board as well. You can use it yourself or just stick it in a savings account and give it him back at a later date (ideal to buy a car or deposit for his first flat?)

Yes yes back off. Tell him unless you hear otherwise you'll assume he's sorting out his own dinner and leave him to it.

I would stop doing the weekly envelope thing to as he needs to learn how to budget on a month by month basis. If he runs out of money that's his problem.

Ok backing off :)

He brings home £750 and gives £250 towards his keep and ask gives us £50 to put in his savings account. The thing is I have let him manage his own money since September last year and by the 2nd week he is broke, he needs bus fares so ends up borrowing from us. Also he asks his dad to lend him fag money when his runs out. He's done it once. I'm fed up of the money issue and of the lying.

I guess I miss the son I used to have :(

I think the lying will be resolved if you back off and stop making him tell you his every move and trying to commit him to what time he is coming home all the time. He's 17 he should be able to go to a mates house after work without needing to tell mum first.

As for the money he'll learn soon enough if you refuse to bail him out. I'm sure if he has to phone work and tell them he can't get there because he's got no money for bus fare he'll soon start being a bit more careful. At the moment he doesn't need to worry because mum and dad are there as a back up. You might need to let him mess up a little so he can grow up a bit.

He's still 16-17 in June :) I guess i need to get it into my head he's no longer a child :( I was bought up eating a meal with family at the table. Wanted to have the same with my children. O well. Time to let go.

If he's got no bus fares then he'll have to sort out an alternative way of getting to work.

If he's got no money for cigarettes then he'll have to do without.

If he doesn't let you know he'll be home for tea then he can cook his own when he gets in.

A tough month of cycling to work, suffering nicotine withdrawal and putting his own meals together might sharpen him up a bit.

He's struggling with the whole child to adult process. In his defence he's working and has an apprenticeship.

You need to sit down and have and adult conversation with him. Continue to take the £250 keep and the £50 savings. He needs to learn the consequences of not budgeting and your not helping. If he runs out of money tough, don't lend him any.

Refuse to bail him out, make him walk or cycle to work if he has no cash for the bus. He will have to explain to his boss why he is late. By the sounds of it that is the only way he is going to learn to manage his money.

£500 a month spending money when he has basically no expenses other than travelling to work is loads.

Thanks all :)

I thought that by helping him learn the budgeting then we won't have money going missing from the house. He is stuck between going from a child to adult, I see that. Hence why I was trying to make the adjustment easier.

I find it hard to be tough with him in the sense of making him walk 3mikes to work and 3mikes back. As I said in my op he has just been diagnosed with epilepsy and had a major 12hour absence seizure and as a parent that has really effected me to see my son not know what year it was or who his family was. I am being overprotective I know. I can't help it.

Stupid iPad changing miles to mikes? What's that about?!

Can understand your worry but your more likely to be contacted quickly if something has gone wrong or he's had another seizure.

3 miles isn't really that far but far enough to give him time to think about budgeting more sensibly. Tell him to set aside his monthly travel costs so at least he always has money for bus fare. I would concede to holding onto that for him. He still needs your guidance but also some space to get it wrong.

As for any money going missing then yes I would come down on him like a ton of bricks for that.

tell him to text you at 4pm if he wants a meal at 5pm. Explain that if he doesn't text and also if he's not there at 5, then there's no meal.

He should be cooking for you all once a week too.

Lastly let him have his money. Explain beforehand that you will not lend him a penny if he runs out. Therefore he will have to give up his fags and walk to/from work. He will be fitter which is positive - considering he should be keeping very active being young and in his prime. Also explain that if he steals money, he will have to pay twice/triple the amount back

O he wanted to cook once a week, we agreed every Friday night and it's happened once!
I like the text idea :)
He will have his money next month. He has been fine with me helping him this month, I just hope he sees how far his money can go if he was to stop and think first.

Can you give him his monthly cash on the condition/understanding that he logs everything he spends on his phone (using an app? Or iphone notebook). You could help him more by sitting down at the end of the month and working out between you how much he spends on fags/clothes/the bus/frittering/lunch each month. This can be constructive and positive. You can work out how much he could save in a year if he gave up fags or how if he stopped buying lunch how he could afford a holiday abroad with his mates in the summer. If you do ask him to log his outgoings, you need to give him the exact date/time that you will be sitting down with him at the end of the month and going through it all.

You could log all your outgoing too just to join in and help you reflect on your own spending too. Might be very interesting for DS to see how much you spend each month on food, transport, leisure, frittering away

What about cooking at the weekend instead when he's less tired?

And I think he's old enough to look for a recipe, shop for the food and then cook.

Out of interest why has he only cooked once despite it being a weekly thing? If he fails to cook on a Friday - meaning you have to, charge him a £25 forfeit to make up for you loosing your personal time to cover his responsibilities.

oooooooh-I have tried sitting him down, he gets so grumpy and says 'it's fine mum' like I am lecturing him. I have also showed him in great detail our own incoming and outgoings and hoped this would shock him into realising how much living costs. It did make me laugh when he said 'im too young to pay council tax.. he got confused with tax and council tax lol
The reason he has only cooked once is because he goes to his friends after work and doesn't let me know, so I end up cooking! He was so keen and now he has that can't be arsed attitude again.