Abusive, violent son. What to do?

[Somethingtodo]

Oldest son has always been stubborn, moody, aggressive and antagonistic with the family. He is v social and charming out of the home. He frequently punched me, and verbally abuses me during his angry rages and smashes up my house.

My STBXH stood by and watched and I eventually went to the police and his school this time last year (back story here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1599899-Is-being-an-avoider-a-marriage-deal-breaker)

....he got a caution, the school were great and he has not punched me since.

We have now decided to separate after a long 30 year relationship. STBXH has moved out. Ds has taken this really badly (other 3 younger siblings were shocked, angry but have got on with it)....he is now raging with me standing over me growling, red faced, teeth clenched, dribbling saliva and punching me in the head repeatedly but pulling back just before contact (as he knows I will contact the police again). He has smashed up my home -- manhandles me by physically shoving me out of his room. He screams at his 8 year little sister and calls her a cunt because she drinks her water too loudly.

He has decided to rebel and self-sabotage his education (lower 6th) by not doing any work. He is drinking and has started smoking weed at the weekend.

I want to help him not punish him - what do I do.

I have guilt that our marriage was toxic and he heard too much anger and frustration from me - so this is what I deserve - reap what you sow etc.

Somethingtodo - really sorry this is happening to you. You know that you're not alone - much of what you describe is, sadly, a familiar or familiarish story for a lot of us.

Your safety and that of your other children is paramount. It really is.

And, forgive me, but I think your sense of guilt is a little, or even very, misplaced, perhaps. Your toxic marriage is over - you've obviously put up with one hell of a lot - and now you stand tall. You come across as a compassionate and resilient woman.

Obviously, you don't want to throw your DS out - but finding him somewhere else to stay until the situation vastly improves - is not throwing him out. Would someone at the school have suggestions? Is there a local Foyer?

foyer.net/

Look under 'find a foyer'. Would the local council help? Might there be foster care given his age - there may be specialist foster carers in your area.

As well, certainly, your DS needs targeted help. I hope he - and therefore you and the family - can get held before he's too old for CAMHS. Maybe your adult mental health services are OK (ours aren't).

Good luck.

Morven - thank you - my toxic marriage is only 12 days over - but I know that I am co-dep and always take on too much responsibility - trying too hard for too long...my marriage should never have happened - I have v low standards and boundaries and put with too much.

I have decided to read this letter to him. Please let me know your thoughts.

I love you unconditionally and only want the best for you so that you can have a happy, full-filling and healthy life.

You need to develop your own inner emotional strength (calm, self motivated and in control), so that you can express your emotions appropriately and maintain strong, life long, relationships and achieve all you are capable of as an adult.

I am very concerned that your response to stress, both big and small, is uncontrollable violence, anger, abuse and blaming.

It is not normal to get so easily riled that you smash up property, scream obscenities and abuse, foam at the mouth, hold a clenched fist with a punching motion to someone's head, punch your Dad and man-handle your Mother, as well as not be able to have a calm adult discussion about an issue.

This abnormal and abusive behaviour indicates that you have a mental health condition and I have arranged for your to see a psychiatrist for diagnosis and treatment.

It is also not acceptable in society or in any home to smash up property, scream obscenities and abuse, foam at the mouth, hold a clenched fist with a punching motion to someone's head, punch your Dad and man-handle your Mother.

I will not have this behavior in my home or expose my younger children to anymore trauma experienced by witnessing this.

If you display any one of these behaviours once more I will call the police and social services immediately so that you are removed from the home and place in foster care and are no longer a threat to me, the younger children or my property.

Continuing to behave this way will take you further down a path of destructive chaos, severe emotional pain, failure in relationships, friendships and work, and ultimately to jail.

Everyone gets stressed - stress is good and motivating - but we all need to take personal responsibility for responding appropriately and then making lifestyle choices to relieve it (planning and organisation, enough sleep, eating healthily, daily exercise and moderating stimulants).

I appreciate that times have been tough and you are hurt but life throws challenges all of the time and we have to cope with these in the right way. The other children feel as hurt as you do but choose not to be violent or abusive about it.

I am here 100% to support you but I will not tolerate anymore abnormal and abusive behaviour from you.

something - that's a good letter. It can't have been at all easy to write. There are bits of it I might change but I'll need to think a bit more. I'll come back tomorrow. You say 'read' the letter? That is probably better than giving it to him but if he gets hold of it, might things escalate? An honest letter like this is a good idea, I think, but I'm wondering about some of the content and tone - only about bits of it.

Others will come on and have their own thoughts.

Hope you all have a good night's sleep.

I know some of the tone is angry or haughty....finding it hard to be compassionate....so would value any input at anytime. I plan to read it to him but also to leave it or email it to him. Ideally I want a discussion but we never get there - so he needs to know I told him so....

Morning, Something.

I wonder about this bit of your proposed letter:"This abnormal and abusive behaviour indicates that you have a mental health condition and I have arranged for your to see a psychiatrist for diagnosis and treatment. "

You are undoubtedly right - your son does have a mental health condition and he clearly needs the right kind of help - targeted to someone his age (I have a DS who, miserably, got caught up in adult services when he still pretty young). But I'd be a bit wary about putting it quite like this - could you soften it - and, unless you have made an appointment, best not to be explicit about that, perhaps. That isn't to say don't refer to help but perhaps go easy on the terminology. The one thing you don't want to do is to inflame the situation but making him angrier that he is. It sounds like something serious is going on (and, again, don't blame yourself, please don't - these things very sadly just happen - I know!) and you and your DS need to know what it is. There's every chance that with the right help, things will substantially improve, over time. Your DS is very lucky to have you.

Have you yourself gone to your GP and talked about any of this? DS is still a minor - they should speak to you and especially as it's having a massive effect on you - and your other DCs. In any case, a referral would go via a GP, I imagine.

I remember, once, phoning CAMHS about my DS. They were very nice indeed but advised that going to them might make things worse for him. Honest enough. But things escalated and, finally, he found himself on the cusp between the adolescent and the adult services. I bet adult services in many areas are fine but here they are rubbish and I regret taking CAMHS advice on that occasion.

I think the beginning and end of your letter are great - I like the way you use the statements about the undoubted love that you have for your son to frame the letter.

You're welcome to PM at anytime.

Thank you Morven - I think I was trying to put the boot in - trying to scare him / shake some sense into him - does he really have a MH issue - if not prove it (I dont think he has - wrt depression, pychosis etc as his anger is controlled). I think he does need counseling and help specifically for anger management.

I'm in the same position tonight. My 18 yr old ds (has aspergers) has assaulted me and then left the house. I locked him out and when he returned tried to kick the front door down. My other 2 dc, both younger are terrified. He managed to get in the back door, his brother nearly had a fight with him but I managed to separate them. He has put some stuff in a bag and is now at his gfs house. This all kicked off because he didn't like the shopping I'd bought. My middle ds has now told me the reason he threatened suicide last year was due to his brother. Don't know what to do next?

Mrsj70 - I've pm'd you.

Mrsj - are you ok? Call the police on 101 and tell them. Hopefully they can advise you what to do when he turns up again.

I'm so sorry you're going thru this. Do you have anyone in RL who you can talk to about it?

Hi, so sorry to hear this goes on for other people too. It happens in our family, again with older teenage son (17) being aggressive and violent (smashing things in house, hitting and shoving me, controlling behaviour, calling me the worst possible names). Again, think lot is to do with being separated from their father (lives too far away to have oldest son). And partly an anger management issue...he did self refer to doctor at 16 but refused to continue when realised would be on his medical records. Have tried the letter approach, the making him leave home approach (forced back by ex P and grandparents who all refused to have him any longer)

Now, situation escalated as 9 yr old daughter has disclosed worry of him 'kicking off' and hurting me and middle son to teacher at school and sounds like school asked her a lot of questions about safety at home. I don't know what will happen next, am imagining (and worrying) social services will investigate.

So hope I am not hijacking your thread but if your son loves his younger siblings (and I bet he does, despite his rage), would talking to him to point out that this could easily happen and how he would feel if it did (?), be more likely to encourage him to limit some rages and language than just relating it back to you?

With my son, most of his anger is channelled at me so me trying to assert myself is like going for a head on challenge and likely to end in another scene.....thinking this letter, though it seems reasonable to you, will it just fuel his anger again next time he loses it?

Thanks for the advice. Ds stayed at gfs last night, no attempt to come back. I would love to send him to his Dad but he's not interested. Will wait and see wat happens later.

So sorry you are going through this, we have been through similar with dss, he wasn't living with us but with his mum, in the end she had to kick him out and put her dd ( my dsd) first. My dss has severe mental health issues and it has been a ongoing battle over the past couple of years, he is now an adult so can not do as much to help regarding his mental health ( it's his choice to take medication or seek help unless sectioned ). We had to turn him away from our home last year as we have young dc's and could not risk having him here, he was made homeless for a while and it was so hard for us to refuse him a bed ( we had to put our dc's first ).

I am sorry that others are suffering this too - especially with other dc exposed to it either witnessing or a target.

I do know that children who witness domestic violence suffer trauma.

Yes I am aware that the letter, talking to him etc will inflame and aggravate as he refuses to see what he has done wrong and justifies his actions as I "have ruined his life and annoy him".

But I feel that I officially need to give him this ultimatum so he knows that there is now a clear boundary with a consequence and he chose to cross it.

There have not been any consequences in the past as these have been deliberately undermined by my STBXH - but with him out of the picture I will find the strength to follow through.

It is hard to hear that the only consequence is police and kicking out.

Miniminimus - a familiar story. Ours is really a variation on that theme.
Have you thought of going to the school which might pre-empt SS involvement? If the worst comes to the worst and they do look into this, ask them - tell them - to come up with an alternative scenario for your older DS. You are being abused through no fault of your own. This is a problem with older DS that the powers that be must support you with and provide practical assistance. SS involvement, via school, happened to us. Took a while to shake them off but I'd have been pleased enough if something good had come out of it. I suppose it could have - but it didn't. It may not come to that for you or, if it does, it may work out depending on how sensible the services are in your area.

Is your son sure that anger management support would be any more of an issue that a reference in his GP notes (his request must surely have been noted)? Is that something you could find out about?

Our older DCs turning on us and their younger siblings and the harm that this is doing to us, to our other children and of course to those who are meeting out the abuse is very difficult to bare. At its height, for us, I spent hours and hours and hours googling possible reasons, solutions, resources and as much time going after support which varied from plainly useful to actually harmful. But the MH services in our area are dire. I came to MN from time to time for kind words and really good advice. But it's high time that abuse from older children (I suppose they needn't be older) was recognised for what it is and that there were coherent systems of support and practical help for the whole family.

is there a link that I could show my ds that what he does is abusive behaviour - as he is not accepting it from me.

Sorry Something, I don't know...even if there was, if he is anything like mine (and sounds very similar behaviour, right down to the self sabotage of education), he will want to remain in denial. If he does accept it he will probably get angry again to deflect from having to deal with it. I do get the guilt side too, plus they are your child having a hard time and so vulnerable, yet become your abuser and have the family on tenterhooks. And you can't tell anyone in real life as they will think you are a failed parent with no authority. And it feels like you are being judged again for being a single parent! The drinking and smoking thing so familiar too, mine hides empty lager cans among his clean boxers! Clearly thinks I never go in that cupboard and all done by the Clean Pants Fairy!

Thanks Morven, think I will take up your suggestion of being proactive with school. I would not wish this on anyone but it is relief to know other people are going through similar.

I have got a solution to relieve pressure on everyone which is for oldest DS to go to his father for 2 nights a week as he doesn't have any lectures from Tuesday pm to Thursday am. Think this would give us all a break, give him 121 attention from his dad, he could do some sport with him (get testosterone down!), help him with homework etc. And my middle son (14)and daughter (9)would get some respite. Only problem is,ex says no, he is 'too busy with work'! Might hold water if I didn't work full-time as well as looking after all 3 DC's 24/7! Grrr!

I will keep trying though as feel it will really help to have plan in place. Would your STBXH consider anything like this Something? Thinking particularly about sport as have noticed my son a bit less volatile when physically exhausted?

I really hope your letter works for you, it would hold back an emotionally mature adult but I wonder if a teen can be rational when the rage descends. Even if they want to be. Maybe they need an escape route when they feel they are going to get violent or be physically threatening, leave the house, go for walk, punch something harmless....going round in circles now and back to your suggestion of some useful links! Sorry!

Hi Something, keep thinking about your situation and looking for stuff for me as well, I wondered if any of the links here would help you? The top half does make it clear that this is abuse but lower half has some links to youth related sites that are maybe less off-putting to son than thinking he needs full blown psychiatric assessment. Did school respond to your latest email, it would be interesting to see what they say?

www.nhs.uk/Livewell/family-health/Pages/teen-aggression-and-arguments.aspx

Thanks - I am seeing school today - and he is already booked in for couselling.

He has accepted that it is not normal/acceptable to smash up home, verbally and physically assault someone because he is angry....but he keeps moving the justification/denial around.....its because is sen sister is aggressive, he wouldnt be like this with a partner because he would like/love them...and he does have a good relationship with me....so no logic ... and worrying that he thinks this way.

He now knows and accepts I will call the police immediately if this happens again - and promises not to behave badly.

He refuses to see GP - thinks he does not have a MH issue....

Interesting what Mini suggests re sports etc. I believe strongly that demanding physical sport is good for boys (and girls of course) that show signs of aggression. DS1 has played rugby for years and it certainly makes him calmer (and exhausted) every weekend and two evenings a week - letting off steam in a controlled environment can only be good.

There is an added bonus too of having older men supervising, who, with a bit of luck, can be role models. One of the downsides for me is having no adult male nearby who can set a good example of how to behave. So sport is the best I can think of. It also demonstrates how other boys behave with their parents and peers - hopefully it's a good thing.

I have just read your previous posts and I wanted to say that you are an amazing woman and mother. You have been through so much and still sound so strong. The support you have and are continuing to give to your son can not be put down in words. Do not for one minute blame any of this on yourself. You are NOT to be blamed for the illness you have experienced. You are NOT at fault. Keep your useless excuse of a husband out as he will only allow the pain to continue and you DON'T need him. You have managed all these years as a sole single parent looking after 4 children and a manchild. Him leaving is the best thing that could have happened. I'm so sorry you are going through this and I feel sad that a son could treat his mother in such a way. Stay strong and continue to look after yourself and your children. All the hard work now will hopefully set your son on the right path for his future. I have never met you but feel for you so much. I want to hug you and tell you that you are an amazing person and i'm sending you lots of virtual support. I think the letter is a good idea, keep communicating with school and get as much real life support as possible for yourself. Xxx

Strong, mini and what - thank-you for your support. Propelled me through another day.

It does get better Something - it just doesn't happen quickly enough. There's a lot of grief before you see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Stay strong.